Indian Jack. Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I am a LEO here in Texas for over 28 years. Yesterday we were going through a "Less-Lethal" yearly re-qualifying course at our police department. It was held in our sallyport (large police garage). There were about 30-35 officers there and we each had to shoot 5 bean bag rounds through a designated Remington 870 at a target 25', 40', and 60' away. I think I was swept about 5-10 times with a loaded and cocked shotgun (maybe the safety was on, maybe not). There were older and more experienced supervisors with rank there who were the most dangerous. 2-3 officers did not know how to load the 870 with five rounds....they could not get the first round in the gun. When it was my turn I loaded the shotgun and after the first shot at 25' I ejected the empty hull and with an open shotgun pointed muzzle up, walked back to 40' for my next two shots, then open action muzzle up moved back to 60 feet to take my last two shots. When I got back to 60 feet I noticed there were officer standing within 3-4 feet of the path of the trajectory of the beanbag. He was not paying any attention and was mindlessly talking with someone else. I had to tell them to move behind the wall. It looked like a golf tournament where spectators give the pro golfer a slim alleyway to hit their drive off the tee. (They dont want to stand that close to me off the tee) I noticed that I was the only one in this class who moved with an open shotgun...everybody else fired and cocked the 870 again and then moved to the next position. one particular sgt with 35+ years of experience loaded his shotgun while it was pointed at the instructor and they carried the shotgun cradled in his arms as he turned cocked and ready to move to the next position. I was ducking and yelling to watch the muzzle. I did register my complaint about the lax safety to the instructor and the lieutenant who is the overall firearms instructor. This is my long-winded way of saying a BIG THANK YOU to all cowboy shooters who demonstrate gun safety 100% of the time at all of our matches. SASS matches and safety rules and my fellow shooters have all helped teach my 15 year old son how to be safe with his guns as he began shooting SASS at age 9 and has not been dinged for a firearms safety violation. (he has been caught with an extra round in his rifle at the unloading table but has never swept anybody). I am not impressed with my fellow LEOs at my work who take firearms safety for granted. I am more cautious at our requalifications with the pistol, shotgun, and AR-15 than I am at a local SASS match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Interesting experience for ya, Indian Jack. Glad nobody got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks for sharing your experience Indian Jack.. Interesting to say the least.. Makes ya think quite a bit doesn't it? and be thankful for what we've been taught.. Rance Still thinkin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Maybe if the Match DQ'ed them, they wouldn't do it again..... YA THINK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Sounds like the firearms instructor at your department needs to jack some people up. I've tossed m,ore than one officer off the range and set them up for some remedial training. No excuse for carelessness where guns are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think something will happen. they know I will tell them what they need to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think something will happen. they know I will tell them what they need to hear. Atta boy Indian Jack...go gettem'... They'll be ticked off at ya but ya probably saved somebody's life and they don't even know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitmaster, SASS #78461 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Actually it sounds to me links the firearms instructor is the one who needs to be jacked around. If he isn't observant enough to recognize the second incident and publicly call all of the officers on it he shouldn't be an instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Actually it sounds to me links the firearms instructor is the one who needs to be jacked around. If he isn't observant enough to recognize the second incident and publicly call all of the officers on it he shouldn't be an instructor. Sounds about right. Here our SD's instructor put a round through the wall of the training room while discussing safely clearing a pistol with a CCW class. Over and over again he'd clear the glock and reload it, topping it off, etc, while talking. One day it caught up. Thankfully it was the side wall of the room and nothing else that got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitmaster, SASS #78461 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 While, ultimately safety is the shooter's personally responsibility any range or safety offer should be calling out safety violations and watching for unsafe gun handling. I let a safety violation slide one time shortly after being certified. Guy broke the 180 pointing his firearm directly at my gut while unloading his gun. That will never happen again. (The part about me not saying anything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I worked corrections for 27 years+, and we shared our ranges (both the old range and the new one that replaced it) on the prison reservation with D.C. Metropolitan Police and occasionally US Marshalls, and the Air Force (the last time I qualified with the M16 and .38 revolver in the USAF was at the old range, in '68). The contrast between our DOC firearms instructors, who were all former military firearms instructors and competitive shooters and a hard-nosed lot about safety, and the instructors we observed when MPD was also on the ranges was obvious. Accidental discharges were not uncommon with them, and the roof over the firing points had the bullet holes to show for it. It was that same loosey-goosey attitude toward safety that finally got the new range closed down permanently after a MPD SWAT training exercise. The shooters were firing prone, shooting from 20 yards in front of the 100 yard berm and past the 3 aggregate-filled safety baffles between the firing line and the berm. They sent a bunch of 9MM subgun rounds over the berm and into some townhouses north of the reservation. Luckily, no one got hurt, but the resulting hue and cry got the range shut down. Damn shame too, 'cause it was a really nice range, designed by the NRA and built by the Army Corps of Engineers at Fort Belvoir as training for their troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 They'll be ticked off at ya but ya probably saved somebody's life and they don't even know it. Not like it will be the first time they are ticked off at me. I bet I can get a second on that from Concho Billy. They put him in charge of my short fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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