Smithy Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Picked up my Norinco 1897 today and with some dummy rounds found out that the mag tube only held 5 rounds/almost 6. In fact it was 1/4" shy of the rim catching on the sixth round. With the mag tube cap off, the mag tube spring extended beyond the tube about 4". I compressed the end of the spring to equal about 3/16" and cut it off there (that ended up being about 1 1/2" of extended spring). Now the magazine easily holds 6 rounds. What I'm wondering is after the spring settles in after use, will the last round still have enough spring umph to push it out into the receiver? In other words, I hope that I didn't cut off too much spring in my first modification. Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 My shop teacher always said "Measure twice, cut once" Just sayin' Big Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 On the upside, there's lot more expensive parts than a spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 OK, here's a question for any resident gun law scholars or FFL holders who may be familiar with this ... Smithy's new '97 is made in China, so it falls under certain import laws. Out of the box, it holds 5 rounds in the magazine. Clipping the spring, it can hold 6. However, under CFR 922r any modifications have to include a certain number of domestically produced parts. Generally these refer to magazine tube extensions, folding or pistol-grip stocks, etc. Now this may be a fine point of the law, but since clipping the spring modifies the magazine capacity by +1, would it be considered an illegal modification since no other parts were changed? I only ask because of the wording in the reg where it says " ... semi-automatic rifles or any shotgun". One would think it would only apply to semi-auto shotguns, but from what I've gleaned from other forums the ATF has extended this to include pump guns as well. It all has to do with the "5 round magazine" and "sporting purposes" wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Shortening the spring is the easiest, quickest way to allow six rounds in the magazine and it does work. However, I saw LOTS of guns at the Winter Range Wild Bunch that didn't feed right because the mag spring wasn't shoving rounds into the action fast enough. Lassiter described to me a mod that is more reliable, contact him for more details. Springs are cheap. Cut it, run it like heck and see how she runs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I remain amazed and confused. Why in the wide, wide world of sports do people try to change the gun rather than the stage writers? I make money modifying '97s to hold and feed 6, but I have never seen an old Winchester 1897 add, user's manual or military manual that said the thing would hold 6 "in the magazine tube". Yes, the old '97 adds said they will "hold 6" but, "with one in the chamber and 5 in the tube". Even after modifying a '97 to hold 6 in the tube, there is a lot of tension on that last round and I advise using B&P subsonic 2 5/8 inch shells --- shortens the total load by 3/4 inch. I see people struggle to force their '97 to hold and feed 6, and spend money to do so. Just seems like the world would be a simpler place if the Wild Bunch stage writers wrote stages for load 5 rather than load 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Just seems like the world would be a simpler place if the Wild Bunch stage writers wrote stages for load 5 rather than load 6. There's always the Evil Roy technique - rack it and then stuff another in the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I remain amazed and confused. Why in the wide, wide world of sports do people try to change the gun rather than the stage writers?I make money modifying '97s to hold and feed 6, but I have never seen an old Winchester 1897 add, user's manual or military manual that said the thing would hold 6 "in the magazine tube". Yes, the old '97 adds said they will "hold 6" but, "with one in the chamber and 5 in the tube". Even after modifying a '97 to hold 6 in the tube, there is a lot of tension on that last round and I advise using B&P subsonic 2 5/8 inch shells --- shortens the total load by 3/4 inch. I see people struggle to force their '97 to hold and feed 6, and spend money to do so. Just seems like the world would be a simpler place if the Wild Bunch stage writers wrote stages for load 5 rather than load 6. Y'know, my friend Palo Verde is generally a really dull fellow. Kinda slow and totally without a shread of originality. But every so often, he gets lucky (See the BIG bold print above) and I ask myself, why didn't I think of that !?! It makes such good sense, don't it? Every 97 was made to hold five in the mag but WB stage writers (least the ones I know) seem to insist on SIX round stages. of course, ain't no requirement you GOTTA load six.... Of course, I ain't the one to ask on this whole move/rack the shotgun thing cuz ol' Dubious' feets ain't connected real good to his shotgun racking arm. (leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack/leave it closed, move THEN rack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PecosPaul Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Picked up my Norinco 1897 today and with some dummy rounds found out that the mag tube only held 5 rounds/almost 6. In fact it was 1/4" shy of the rim catching on the sixth round. With the mag tube cap off, the mag tube spring extended beyond the tube about 4". I compressed the end of the spring to equal about 3/16" and cut it off there (that ended up being about 1 1/2" of extended spring). Now the magazine easily holds 6 rounds. What I'm wondering is after the spring settles in after use, will the last round still have enough spring umph to push it out into the receiver? In other words, I hope that I didn't cut off too much spring in my first modification. Smithy. Smithy - one nice solution to the "load 6 challenge" is to purchase a Remington 870 Police model spring. I was one of the two pards at Winter range shooting WB with '97s that would only hold 5 (newbie to WB). As always all the other shooters were very helpful and in particular - Tully Mars - suggested the Remington Police model spring. It actully has more tension than my stock spring did, but it has fewer coils, which allow it to be compressed to a shorter length. I swapped mine out Friday and it works like a charm. The Remington spring will compress another inch or so beyond what is needed to load six in my Norinco. Thanks to Tully Mars for this tip. -Pecos Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Get in touch with Wolff Gunsprings Buy a spare mag. tube spring and the problem is solved Brownell's has'm too. Cheers, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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