Need .45-60 information and advice.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay, I need some knowledge from people who know about the .45-60 cartridge.   I have an Uberti 76 in that caliber, and was going to start loading ammo for it today, and that when I ran into problems.

 

First, it has been my assumption that .45-60 is just a shortened .45-70, but I am starting to believe that this is not exactly the case.   First, the Jamison brass I obtained will not fit in my .45-70 Lee shell holder.  I looked it up on Wiki, which is always hit or miss, and the articles there DO indicate that the rim of the 60 is slightly wider than the 70.   Okay, no problem, I'll get 60 specific shell holder.

But when I ran the first case through the RCBS sizing die, I was surprised to see a noticeable bottleneck in the cartridge.  The diagrams and pictures on the Wiki article do no indicate that this should exist, and when I run the 60's through the 70 sizing die, no bottleneck is created.  

Putting no primer, powder or bullet into the case, I determined that the non bottlenecked case will chamber.  (So will the bottlenecked one, but so what?)  But then I noticed something else, while case(s) will fully chamber, I can not close the action.   The bolt seems to be all the way forward, but there's still quite a bit of distance for he lever to go to close, and it will not go any further.   Nor will the extractor grab the rim to pull it out of the chamber.

So, I've got a few problems here.   And rather than screw something up, I wanted to get the advice of people here who have loaded this cartridge in this rifle.

 

So, as I see it...

 

Problem 1.   .45-70 shell holder is too small.  Simple solution: obtain properly sized holder.
Problem 2.  RCBS dies (they came with the gun) seem to be creating a bottleneck that should not exist.  Possible solutions.  Use Lee .45-70 die to deprime and resize shells.  OR  Obtain Lee .45-60 dies.   (I prefer them anyway, but would be annoyed if I had to do so.)   Obvious corollary:  Can you properly resize .45-60 with a .45-70 die?
Problem 3.  Is something wrong with my rifle?   Solutions:  Get advice.

 

Can anyone offer any insights as to all of this?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Photos?  Are you sure the RCBS die is not for .40-60?  Is your Jamison brass headstamped .45-60 or is it some of their "basic" brass?  The only problem I had when making .45-60 from .45-70 for an original 76 was that the .45-60 had a thinner rim.  On some batches of .45-70 they were hard to close until I thinned rims of the shortened brass to a head thickness of .060".  I later acquired some correct Jamison brass.

 

The .45-70 rim is nominally .065" thick.

 

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Here is an article on loading the .45-60.

 

https://www.riflemagazine.com/handloading-the-45-60-wcf

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Those were some of the things I thought of.

The brass is headstamped .45-60, and the .45-60 is etched on the die.  And the rifle is clearly marked in that caliber as well.

The reloading dies, and the once fired brass, cleaned, but not deprimed, came with the rifle.

I've read that article.  In fact, I printed it, and another one with reloading data, to put in my book.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

You also asked for pics... 

 

Here's the RCBS Resizing Die

 

Headstamps

From Left to Right, resized with RCBS .45-60 Die, resized with Lee .45-70 die, unresized.

The Cases
From Left to Right, resized with RCBS .45-60 Die.  Resized with Lee .45-70 die.  Unresized.

You can clearly see the bottleneck on the one resized with the RCBS Die, while the one resized with the Lee Die seems to have the same dimensions as one that is fired, but not resized.


This is the one that was resized with the Lee .45-70 die.  It fell right in with no resistance. The unresized one would go in, but had to be pushed, so it did resize.


Another view.

||

Here, you can see that the bolt does not go all the way foward.

 

This is as far as the action will close.

Does this help offer any more ideas?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

From the last two photos it looks like the tab on the bottom of the bolt might be hitting the rim.

[Bailey Creek,5759]

There isn't anything wrong with your 45-60 dies.

The 45-60 is a Bottle Neck Round.

You can load 45-60 using 45-70 Dies.

A lot of people do. With good results.

I have been shooting 45-60 for 22 yrs. In original Winchester, and Uberti.

Have had a little trouble with Jamison Brass in the Uberti.

It prefers cut down 45-70.

I enjoy shooting both.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

4 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said:

Have had a little trouble with Jamison Brass in the Uberti.

It prefers cut down 45-70.

 

+1

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Well, based on what I've read here, and found in another forum, I'm gonna try trimming some .45-70 to .45-60 length.   If that works, I'll just put away the Jamison brass.

 

Annoying, but better than the alternatives.

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

9 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Well, based on what I've read here, and found in another forum, I'm gonna try trimming some .45-70 to .45-60 length.   If that works, I'll just put away the Jamison brass.

 

Annoying, but better than the alternatives.

If you want to get rid of the Jamison brass, let me know as I have an original 1876 and will take them off your hands!  I have started reloading, got dies with the gun but also wanted loaded ammo so but loaded, black powder cartridges from Jamison as well.