Jackson Haller Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Greetings! Decided to post some 'safe queens' in the hopes that someone else might be interested in giving them a new home! Here is an 1886 Browning Montana centennial in 45-70; this Browning 1886 was built to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the introduction of Monatana into the United States of America. Built by Mirokou in 1989 as one of 2000, the rifle is chambered in .45-70 with a 26" blued octagon barrel, bright steel receiver inlaid with a gold Montana state seal, a buffalo and a bear, etc. and a lovely figured walnut stock. I bought it used, no box or papers, but in excellent condition, a number of years ago. I think I put some tung oil on the stock a few years back (don't ask me why, it has a heavy plastic-like coating from the factory), and I recall taking it out once and shooting some smokeless factory ammo through it. It was cleaned and put back in the safe and there it's sat ever since. (NO silly tang safety or rebounding hammer like the later made Mirokou Winchester '86s.) Here are pics: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/jhenkel/for%20sale/86right.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/jhenkel/for%20sale/86left.jpg Price is $1495 shipped to your FFL in the CONUS. USPS MO only. (Not interested in trades.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 That's a more than fair price. IB never told me it was a DELUXE model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Red Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 BTT for the late Sunday crew and early Monday pards...also for a Great Pardette...and a Great Rifle.. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh... oh... oh... ... where am I going to come up with $1495...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Red Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 JBB, What better item for the Pard from Montana...Very fitting!!! TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well... even though I'm 5'15", I'm in excess of 300 pounds, so probably could skip groceries for a month... I could walk to work & back, it's only 30 miles or so round trip... my grandparents lived without electricity, I suppose I could too... they lived without a telephone too... Being a commemorative, it should be C&R eligible too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Being a commemorative, it should be C&R eligible too. WHY?? It's a modern made(about 31 years ago).45-70 lever rifle. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Because they were made to be displayed/collected, rather than shot, i.e. curios. Fully functional, of course, but curios, nonetheless. Any gun 50+ years old is automatically a C&R, and most aren't on the list because the book would be several inches thick. To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories: • Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms; • Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and • Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. ALL Winchester commemoratives I can think of are on it; Legendary Frontiersman, Legendary Lawman, Oliver Winchester, Sitting Bull, Buffalo Bill, etc. All Colt commemoratives I can think of are on it also, such as the various state commemorative Frontier Scout and SAA's, as well as 1911's that were made to commemorate significant events. I'll have to dig out my book and see what it says about this one. Many that meet the definition of #2 and #3 above aren't on the list either, and require a phone call to verify. Typical governmental bureaucracy; it changes so fast and so often, even they can't keep up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The rifle in question(OP's first post)IS a modern firearm with all the rules that go with it. JUST ASK any FFL...... It IS a sweet look'n rifle LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I've been the "responsible party" (gun room manager) for my store's FFL since it opened five years ago (Wholesale Sports nee Sportsman's Warehouse), and I certainly wouldn't expect someone to abide by my personal opinion of what is a C&R and what is not ("JUST ASK any FFL"). "Modern" doesn't automatically equate to "non-C&R"; a firearm does NOT have to be OLD or RELIC to qualify. ALL Winchester commemoratives are C&R. ALL Colt commemoratives are C&R. I'd almost wager that ALL limited edition commemoratives defined or labeled as such from the factory are C&R under ATF's own definition: Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest OR Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Perhaps Winchester and Colt commemoratives are included due to certification by someone such as Warren Newman, curator of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center museum in Cody, Wyoming, or perhaps because they "derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event". I do not know why they are C&R's, just that they are. I do NOT currently know if this particular Browning 1886 commemorative is C&R or not, but I can make some calls when I get in tomorrow and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So would I My SWAG and to be FFL "safe". It's treated as a modern firearm. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slate mike sass#29204 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Who cares if it's C&R or not. Somebody just by the damn thing before I can't restrain myself!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tommy Reb Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Sacramento, I sent you a PM. Seems to me PM's sometimes work here and sometimes don't. If you do not get mine, please let me know via a post. Thanks. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tommy Reb Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sacramento, I will take it. Another PM sent. Thanks. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Haller Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Hi Tommy! Got your PM and another sent to you! It's yours, pard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Ya snooze, ya lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Oh... oh... oh... ... where am I going to come up with $1495...? My thoughts exactly! Really nice gun, Guess I lost out while trying to count my money!!!!! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 If this deal happens to fall through, PLEASE, PLEASE contact me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I've been the "responsible party" (gun room manager) for my store's FFL since it opened five years ago (Wholesale Sports nee Sportsman's Warehouse), and I certainly wouldn't expect someone to abide by my personal opinion of what is a C&R and what is not ("JUST ASK any FFL"). "Modern" doesn't automatically equate to "non-C&R"; a firearm does NOT have to be OLD or RELIC to qualify. ALL Winchester commemoratives are C&R. ALL Colt commemoratives are C&R. I'd almost wager that ALL limited edition commemoratives defined or labeled as such from the factory are C&R under ATF's own definition: Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest OR Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Perhaps Winchester and Colt commemoratives are included due to certification by someone such as Warren Newman, curator of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center museum in Cody, Wyoming, or perhaps because they "derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event". I do not know why they are C&R's, just that they are. I do NOT currently know if this particular Browning 1886 commemorative is C&R or not, but I can make some calls when I get in tomorrow and find out. WELL, what's the ans? I do know what 3 FFL's told me........... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It has become a moot point, but I certainly wouldn't take an FFL holders word on it... or three for that matter. For the most part, a Type 1 FFL holder would have very little reason to know C&R laws/regulations. For some reason, you seem quite adamant that a modern made firearm can't be a C&R, which just isn't so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 It has become a moot point, but I certainly wouldn't take an FFL holders word on it... or three for that matter. For the most part, a Type 1 FFL holder would have very little reason to know C&R laws/regulations. For some reason, you seem quite adamant that a modern made firearm can't be a C&R, which just isn't so. Why wouldn't a type 1 NOT know C&R?...Type 1 also covers C&R. It's only a "moot point" to you because you were dead wrong......Remember, it was YOU that offered to "find out" and you bailed.... BTW, A local C&R said it would be treated as "modern"....That is also what Ca. DOJ sez(I called)...... I NEVER said a modern made could not be a C&R. It's just that THIS one ain't a C&R..... Carry on, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yes, a Type 1 also covers C&R, as C&R is a lesser, or sub category of what a Type 1 can deal with, but there is no reason a Type 1 would know one way or the other what is a C&R and what isn't, as it's already covered with that particular FFL category. There are no C&R's that a Type 1 FFL can't receive, other than NFA classified firearms; machine guns, sub-machine guns, SBR's, etc. It's a moot point because I won't be buying and receiving it on either license. I said being a commemorative, it should also be C&R, as I know of very, very few commemoratives right off that aren't. I didn't say, "This is a C&R, and, as such, Ms. Johnson, you can ship it directly to me", although the implication was certainly there, pending further research. I won't be the purchaser, so C&R or not becomes a moot point. I did state I had the ability to find out, but, once again, as I am not buying/receiving it, I have no need to find out. It appears you have, so, in addition to being a moot point, you've already done the research and the determination has been made by someone at the State of California Department of Justice, rather than the local Big R, ACE Hardware store owner, or the C&R holder next door, for example. I've looked for one of these at a reasonable price for a few years now, and if one comes up again at such a reasonable price, I'll remember your research and contact with the California DOJ, and receive it on the store's FFL. Your research and personal contact with the California DOJ is sufficient evidence for me, and I would like to thank you for providing a definitive answer for all of us. Somewhere along the line, it appears you have perceived that I have wronged you in some manner, and your efforts to provoke a confrontation have been increasing lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Somewhere along the line, it appears you have perceived that I have wronged you in some manner, and your efforts to provoke a confrontation have been increasing lately... OH-how so? LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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