Widder, SASS #59054

For my hot loads....... NO, I haven't loaded up nor tested any 'hot' stuff using .45 Colt brass. All the load data I have tested used Starline .454 Casull brass with small primer pocket. The reason I specify 'small primer pocket' is because I've read that some original Casull brass had large primer pockets. ..........Widder

TYREL, I send you a PM. Call me ASAP. ..........Widder

Thats funny. Maybe somebody will 'gobble' this rifle up! ..........Widder

Tyrel, if I didn't already own 2 of those, I would consider taking it. I've handled a couple Marlins with the Longhunter action work and they are super smooth and reliable. Best wishes......... and Happy Thanksgiving. ..........Widder

If hats were sold by the size and material, IMIS would be wearing a million dollar hat..... Welcome to The Wire. ..........Widder

Hey PatRiot, when are you gonna load up some 'thunder boomers' and let us know what you think about em? ..........Widder

El Chapo, if you can, let me know if the .454 brass you have also has the slightly recessed area around the flash hole. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing its designed that way because of the smaller primer pocket. I once read that original .454 Casull brass used large pistol primers but Dick Casull decided that small primers were better suited for the higher pressures generated by the .454 My guess is that my Hot .45 loads generate LESS pressures than my .44 Mag loads. ..........Widder

More info on the brass: If you look down inside Starline .454 Casull brass, you will see the brass has a small recess in the bottom, around the primer flash hole area. This is probably why the Casull brass has more volume than .45 Colt brass. The numbers above indicate that LESS pressures are likely obtained using Casull brass than with .45 Colt brass when using the same data for 'HOT .45 Colt' loads. ..........Widder

Howdy El Chapo. Your concern is a valid concern. And, its is one I verified years back when I started using shortened Casull brass in my .45 Colt hot loads. Here is my data concerning the case capacities which many who are following this thread will be surprised. I used a powder trickler to OVERFLOW each case, and then I skimmed off the top with a straight edge so that each case was full to its maximum WITHOUT being a compressed powder charge. Each charge was weighed using my Ohaus 1010 scale, which is a very accurate scale. The brass was not weighed...... only the powder capacity. For H-110 powder in the .45 Colt brass, full case capacity was 42.6 grains. For H-110 powder in the shortened .454 Casull brass, full case capacity was 43.4 grains..... an advantage of .8 of a grain. For Lilgun powder in the .45 Colt brass, full case capacity was 39.9 grains. For Lilgun powder in the shortened .454 Casull brass, full case capacity was 41.0 grains.....an advantage of 1.1 grains. EDIT: All the brass was resized using the same Redding, carbide die. This eliminated any variances in the brass in resizing. In reality, there is more capacity inside the shortened Casull brass than the .45 Colt brass. So any excessive pressures that might have been a concern from using the shortened Casull brass has been no concern for me. In the past 50 years, I've done a lot of testing with my reloads, including powder capacity, bullet seating depth, crimp security, flash hole uniformity and many other aspects of reloading. Like I've stated before, I don't get into Wildcat loading but rather try very hard to check out all aspects of my reloads, ESPECIALLY when working with loads such as Hot .45 Colt fodder and my .460 Rowland reloads. Thanks for bringing up the 'case capacity' topic, which has allowed me to post my information on the brass. ..........Widder

My bad PR. My previous post wasn't in response to you or any thing you said. Sorri! I'm trying to understand why others find it necessary to disparage my test, The shooting results are what they are, plain and simple. If someone don't like the manner in which I test or the results, it still doesn't change the facts of those results. Thanks for posting the extra screen shot. Have a good day. ..........Widder

Thanks for posting PR. I don't know why anyone has to 'confirm' or 'disprove' the data I posted. My test results speak for itself. Sure, some folks will cringe at shooting 'Hot' stuff, but it can't be denied the loading information is available from powder Manufacturers, including MINIMUM and MAXIMUM data. And, like wise, some folks will salivate over the data and use it to work up their own 'Hot' stuff. The data itself needs no 'confirmation'. Its just data from my reloading and shooting results from 3 different firearms. And there is a lot of good data involved that I have shared. I don't know why anyone feels the need to disparage my results or the manner in which I obtained those results. It ain't much different in the manner in which manufacturers gather their data to share with us. We take the same data and share it, plain and simple. I've yet to blow up or destroy a firearm from my reloads...... BUT, I have blown up an 1897 SG and a SIG P320 using FACTORY ammo. Go figure. Again, thanks for posting that 'screen shot' on the load data from the powder manufacturer. Maybe you can also post a screen shot of the 240 grain bullets. ..........Widder

I don't know where you are getting your information, but you should atleast reference it so we all will be more knowledgeable of what you say. Once again, I will share the information that is listed on Hodgdon's website, regardless of what brass they used or the time of day they did their test or what they had for breakfast. From Hodgdon's website: NOTE: they list minimum AND Maximum load data. 240 grain HP. H-110. Min: 27.2 MAX: 28.0 250 grain HP. H-110 Min: 25.7 MAX 26.5 240 grain. LilGun Min: 27.0 MAX 27.8 250 grain. Lilgun Min: 23.5. MAX 25.5 I don't know where you are getting your information, but the website states Minimum and Maximum load data for H-110. And the pressures given for H-110 are about the same as LilGun charges, if not a little more. Maximum pressure given for the LilGun data is LESS THAN 30,000 CUP. Maximum pressure given for the H-110 date is a tad OVER 30,000 CUP. I shared my info from 1st hand test shooting, especially checking for multiple pressure signs. If somebody don't want to use it, then don't. If ya don't like the brass I used, then don't use it. But if you are going to neglect and refute the load data I have stated, you should check out the referenced Hodgdon Website before trying to contradict such data. While some are weary of pressure, check out the pressures generated by H-110 in the .44 Mag. Some of those pressures EXCEED 36,000. ..........Widder

Hodgdon's website has all the info I listed and NONE of my listed load data is maximum stuff, based on their website. AND..... the load data on their website has a section just for .45 Colt. (Ruger, Freedom Arms and TC only) firearms. I don't load wildcat stuff. I often check loading manuals AND the powder manufacturers website before I start testing my handholds. And even with my .460 Rowlands, my handholds are well within their recommended power ranges. ..........Widder

Howdy PR 1. I've never check out the brass thickness EXCEPT the 'web' is thicker because of the use of Small Primers (pistol or rifle). 2. In my Marlin, YES, the pressures seal very well. I get NO blow-by coming back at me. 3. YES, Small pistol primers would work. I use the Rifle primers because of their noted 'thickness' to help withstand the higher pressures. Even with these high pressure loads, I never experience a flattened primer or any signs of cratering. 4. LilGun is my favorite, without doubt. A few years back, H-110 was my favorite until I tested LilGun. If you check my velocity results above, you can see a distinct difference using the LilGun. Now, using H-110 will still give you great results but PLEASE be sure to follow the manufacturers load information concerning H-110. It IS NOT a powder that needs to be used to 'down-load' your ammo. Feel good that you were able to get the H-110. If your price was right, you might want to go buy another couple bottles. At the amount you will be using to reload, it doesn't last long. One other thought: When you get that prized deer or ugly hog in your crosshairs, and you touch off that screaming .45 slug, your game won't really care if that slug is going 1900+ fps or 1700+ fps. And it won't know the difference between being shot with LilGun or H-110. Like you, my eye sight ain't trustworthy and I have a nice Leupold 2X scope mounted on my Marlin. I really like the XTP 'MAG' bullets, in both 240 grain and 300 grain. The XTP 'MAG' doesn't come in the 250 grain. When you look at the 'Mag' bullets, you can tell the jacket is thicker/stronger and should work very well at high velocities against deer, hog and bear. ..........Widder

BTT ..........Widder

WOLFY: Slater and Cowboy Carty are both excellent Marlin smiths. For short stroke help, Carty would be the 'Go-To' man. Longhunter is also a great smith on Marlins, but I think he has slowed down his Marlin work. To help with smoothness, feeding, and setting up your 1984 to feed the Russian, .44 special and .44 mag fodder, Slater would be my choice. Slater and I are friends, Cowboy shooting pards, and our families attend the same church. He's been an excellent student in learning all kinds of stuff about the Marlin and although rare, I still assist him with information and some technical help with some troublesome Marlins. He is VERY detailed in his work. Soon, I will be helping him on his first 'Widdermajik', which will feed both the Cowboy .45 Special and .45 Colt interchangeably. Some of the same modifications can be used to modify your 1894 to feed the Russian cartridge reliably. If your 1894 already feels good to you, is smooth and reliable...... and ALL you really want is to feed the Russian, you may only need your timing advanced a little. If you have questions on that, feel free to call me: 865 / 696-1996. Best regards ..........Widder

The first Remington Marlin I worked on was really a surprise. It was a .38/357 caliber. Normally in the Marlin 1894, when the mag tube touches up with the front portion of the portal, the portal should have a slight 'funnel' design, This design STOPS the 'Follower' from pushing completely thru the portal. On my first encounter with a newly produced Remington Marlin, someone had drilled that portal hold STRAIGHT thru, with no funnel design to stop the follower. When the shooter got down to the LAST round in the mag tube, the 'Follower' would push the last round onto the carrier AND the 'Follower' would also push thru onto the carrier. And when the gun was empty, the 'Follower' and some of the spring would protrude out onto the carrier. This situation would not allow the carrier to rise and basically was a big headache to fix. BUT.... it was fixed and worked correctly after some serious thinking and a little modification on the portal. ..........Widder

Basically, a carrier is a carrier. Unless its been broken or drastically reshaped or heated up and bent, it should be workable. They can be modified, tweaked, tuned, etc....... and even welded up in places that need a little build-up. If its jamming from the 'feed two'. (also known as the Marlin Jam) problem, the timing is off and a good Marlin smith should know how to remedy this problem. If its jamming during feeding into the chamber, the cradle area of the carrier can be modified, reshaped, etc..... for smooth reliable feeding. If the 'Extractor' is too stiff or misshaped, it can be replaced and properly tuned. Now, after all that, it is possible that the receiver, chamber, carrier and portal can be offset enough to cause misalignment when the bolt moves forward to feed a round from the carrier into the chamber. Its hard to diagnose some issues on the Wire without actually seeing the rifle. Best regards ..........Widder

Howdy Bgavin. I'm glad you saw this thread. As you already know cause we've discussed it before, it took me over 2 years before I would shoulder my shotgun again. After consulting with my heart doctor, he said that unless I had other symptoms of heart issues, It should be o.k. for me to shoot shoulder guns again. I didn't seem to have any issues with shooting the SG or a thumping rifle. BUT, I can sure understand your concerns and there will come a time when you'll know it feels right to shoot some shoulder fired 'thumpers'. Best regards and keep in touch. ..........Widder

Hey TJB. Yea, 10 yrds. My test was for velocities and not accuracy. BUT, I did place a 2" target at 10 yards to see if my Point of Impact was the same as my Point of Aim. Basically, both pistols are capable of 'Minute of Snake Head' accuracy at 10 yards...... ..........Widder

PR I've used 2 different Chrono's over the past few years and the results of the hot loads in the rifle are always real impressive in BOTH of my Marlin .45's. I've mentioned many times that a good hot .45 Colt load in a rifle will give results that mirror .454 Casull fodder from a 7" pistol. At 73, the only physical hinderance I seem to have is eye sight. So far, my hands, thumbs, etc..... still enjoy those big 'thunder boomers'. I will admit that the Marlin does have some noticeable felt recoil on the shoulder. But most big bore lever guns do, especially with smokeless powder. Glad you like the information. ........,,Widder

For me, its comforting to know that I have a good handgun close by should a rampaging, charging Jurassic Groundhog comes after me. ..........Widder

Using load data from Hodgdon website load data, here are my recent results from some 'hot' loaded ammo. Pistols were a 5.5" Ruger SBH Hunter, Mag-Na-Port'd. A 7.5" Ruger SBH Hunter. (non-ported) Marlin 1894 Cowboy cut to 16.5" Velocity was chronographed 8 feet from muzzle 1st column: velocity from 5.5" Ruger 2nd column: velocity from 7.5" Ruger 3rd column: velocity from 16.5" Marlin 1894 4th column: Muzzle Energy for each velocity shown in 'bold'. 240 gr. XTP Mag. 27.0 LilGun 1336 1431 1970 950 / 1091 / 2067 240 gr. XTP Mag. 27.5 H-110 1181 1220 1760 743 / 798 / 1650 250 gr. XTP. 25.0 LilGun 1322 1318 1866 969 / 964 / 1932 (please note: average velocity in the 7.5" was lower than the 5.5") 250 gr. XTP. 26.0 H-110 1212 1245 1660 815 / 860 / 1629 CRIMP MOVEMENT: a test bullet was used to measure movement at 3 shots, 6 shots, 9 shots and 12 shots. At original OAL, my test bullet was 1.643 After 3 shots, the OAL was 1.644 After 6 shots, the OAL was 1.651 After 9 shots, the OAL was 1.651 After 12 shots, the OAL was 1.651 Although the bullet slightly moved from recoil, it never moved out of the crimp groove. I was very happy with my crimp consistency. Other useful info: My brass was .454 Casull brass, cut to .45 Colt length. Primers were Small Rifle Magnum. (Casull brass uses Small primers) There were NO pressure signs showing any flattened primers, BUT..... slightly sticky ejections from the Marlin were experienced when firing the .240 gr. XTP Mag using 27.0 Lilgun powder. I had NO split cases. Because accuracy is subjected to the shooter, I will only say that I am well pleased with the accuracy of all these reloads. At 10 yards, both Ruger's were hitting at the same POA. I love shooting big bore pistols, but I must admit that shooting gloves are recommended. ..........Widder

Wouldn't it be funny if some of these folks that have been missed were somehow put on the 'Ignore' list by some Pards in the past and then forgotten about..... And now, after a few years, some are wondering what really happened to them........when all along, they've been right here with us..... ..........Widder