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Chamber length of 1897 Winchester


Pigeonroost Slim , #36403

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I have an 1897 in 16ga "E 520107". It was a gift from me to my son about 7 or 8 years ago, but he never shot it, said it was jambed closed and empty. Its a take-down version and the foreend assembly was stuck, got all of that cleared, but the chamber looks short to me. Wondering if its 2 9/16 or 2 1/2 maybe.

 

prs

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All original 97's that I know of are made for a slightly shorter version of shell than we now use. Even the ones made in the 50's and labeled 2 3/4 inch shells are still a little short. So it is a good idea to get it lengthened to modern Specifications.

 

Until then, be sure to shoot only low powered cartridges.

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Pidgeonroost,

 

You can make yourself a "rough" length gauge by using 1/4 inch thread-all about 12 inches long. Then find (preferably) fender washers (1/4 inch holes with larger diameter OD) and grind the outside until it just fits into the bore. USE CAUTION NOT TO SCRAPE OR MAR THE CYLINDER WALL!!! You can chose to apply some thin scotch tape to the washer. Double nut both sides of the first washer at one end of the thread all, so it won't move. Add a third nut about 1 inch up from the first washer. Find a second washer with a 1/4 inch hole but with an OD large enough that it will NOT drop into the chamber.

 

Next break down the gun and secure the barrel only in a gun vise. Drop the rod with the first attached washer into the chamber until it bottoms out. Put the larger washer over the rod and let it slide down until it rests on the face of the chamber. Then screw down a fourth screw until it just touches the larger washer. Pull the assembly out and tighten nut number 3 against nut number 4 (TAKING GREAT CARE NOT TO MOVE THE LOCATION OF NUT 4).

 

The end result is two washer on the rod space the depth of the cylinder bore.

 

NOW THIS IS A "COMPARATIVE GAUGE" ONLY. The approximate chamber depth is the distance between the bottom face of the smaller washer and the BOTTOM face of the larger washer.

 

You can use this to compare it to other KNOWN 16 g chambers OR - MIC a 2 3/4 inch shell. The chamber should be about 1/4 inch longer (or 3 inches long) to accomadate the opening of the shell "folds".

 

I used this method to find that I had on old Ithaca double that had 2 5/8 inch chambers. The thing kicked like a mule and was most certainly causing high pressures in the chambers. Lucky I found it after I fired only a box of standard 12 g shells through it. You are very wise to check the chambers in this gun before firing.

 

NOW HAVING SAID ALL THAT - MY BEST ADVICE IS TO CALL TERRY MILLER (Cowboy & Indian Store). He's now living in St George, UT - but he still works on 97's. Have him rework the gun including "back boring" (or lengthing the cylinder). This will soften the recoil and lower the pressures in the gun. I'd also recommend that he go through the gun completely and do and action job. It will cost you a few bucks BUT he's one of the best in the country and he's got a lot of parts for the 97's (including 16 g). Give him a call. If you plan to shoot any amount of CAS with the gun, you won't be sorry and you won't have to worry about the thing coming apart in you hands - which is always a scary event.

 

Good Luck, CK

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Marauder speaks the truth. In 1911 the roll crimped paper shells were in use and shotguns were chambered for them. The plastic shells that we use today are longer when the crimp opens so some of the shell enters the forcing cone when you fire it. The part of the plastic shell that is in the forcing cone creates a restriction and causes higher than normal pressure thus causing more felt recoil.

Yes, you can shoot it is but do your self a favor, have it checked and the chamber reamed for today's ammo.

 

Blackfoot :blink:

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While you are having the chamber lengthened, also have the forcing cone extended . The same tool does both. Your gun was made for paper/cardboard etc. wads and the newer guns have longer forcing cones to take advantage of plastic (better sealing wads). The longer forcing cone makes for softer recoil. There are many sites on the internet that offer this service and you don't have to send the whole gun-just the barrel.

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I thought I posted my findings, but don't see them. Anyway, THANKS for the good advice and confirmation of possible short chambers. I am familiar with how older shotguns have chambers for roll crimp and sometimes shorter hulls. I am not familiar with the '97, although I am with '12s. What really made it look short to me was how some of the "chamber" is actually part of the breech bolt. I load all my own ammo and I can roll crimp and trim hulls as needed. I did chamber a new uncrimped Cheddite hull in which I had seated an overshot card just into the hull mouth and coated with water glass (isingglass). That made a very fragile case mouth at full length that would crack if even slightly bumped by the abrupt forcing cone. It cycled fully and smoothly without any evidence of contacting the cone. I do not want to cut the cone to modern specs bacause we are darksiders and use traditional wadding, fiber wads, and overshot cards even when we do not roll crimp. The bore in this barrel sure is rough and lubed 14ga fiber wads may be needed to get a decent seal with Holy Black.

 

prs

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