Snakebite

Hey come on down to the Fort Miller match next April... you can be State Champion here, it's OK with us. Snakebite

Too tough of a question to nail down to just one match. Of course WR is gonna be hard to beat. EOT has put on some dandy matches, and every year the Western Regional at Chorro Valley is great! I must admit that I love our Fort Miller match in the Fresno Area in April. It has a lot of Old Time Flavor on a great Cowboy Range. Peace in the Valley, in ND. was just wonderful... wish they were a bit closer to California. I'm looking forward to a return to the RR Bar range for the next California State match, and sometime while I'm still able to get around, I would love to attend Commin at cha. I've heard nothing but good things about what T Bone and crew do. WOW... there are great matches everywhere! Snakebite

Rule enforcement can be difficult at times. I have found that new shooters accept enforcement much better than some very experienced shooters. The experienced shooter may have been doing it for years, and never been called on it. They usually know that it is wrong, and when someone calls them on it, they get mad. By the time the story gets around they have put a Spin on it to try and make it look like it is your fault. I have seen this at all levels of the game, from World Champions down. One famous Champ showed up at WR wearing Rocky Swat team boots. I called him on it and told him to get them changed. He did, but the word spread that I was a Hard Ass. Another Champ's wife moved with the posse at EOT. If he did anything wrong, she would yell "Stop", and he would stop and demand a restart because someone yelled stop. I didn't allow it and made him finish the stage. He appealed the call and lost. A women on the posse that shot with him regularly said that she had seen the same things happen before with him and his wife, and the T.O. would allow him a restart/shoot. One guy came to me asking for a reshoot for his son because one pistol did not fire due to the cylinder pin being pushed in to the safety position. He said that it was his fault not the boys fault. Sorry, but that didn't matter, the kid had to take the 5 misses. He continued to argue about it when I noticed that the grips on both hand guns had electrical friction tape wrapped around them. I pointed it out and told him to remove it before the next stage. He exploded and said that the grips were cracked and the tape was needed to hold them on. At first I thought that it had just happened and that it was a quick on the spot repair, but wondered if the grips on both guns had just cracked. He said that he had been shooting with them that way for the past few years, even at EOT and WR and nobody had ever said anything about it. Fact is, he knew what he was doing. I told him to fix it before the next stage, and he did..... but by the time he put a spin on the story with his many friends, I was the Bad Guy. Rule enforcement can be difficult. I try to cut as much slack as I can, but some things are just so flagrant that they must be addressed. It will never change. Just be fair and honest. If you can find a legal way to help the shooter out of the problem, then do it. I don't roam the field looking for something to ding people on. If you do, you will certainly find plenty, at any match you go to. Snakebite

Too bad they won't fit Blackhawks.

Of course it is a violation, but I have never seen a shooter at the loading table make a issue of it when the person in front of them loads a handgun, and then sweeps him while holstering it. No, of course it does not happen all the time, and our shooters are generally very responsible, but getting swept by a loaded handgun at the loading table is IMO much more likely than it happening during the course of fire. An active LTO could help deter that from happening. Just knowing that someone is watching encourages the person loading to not be cavalier with his/her actions. So to answer your question, Yes, I am indirectly saying that when no one is watching the shooter load, then it is much more likely to happen, and is therefore not enforced. Snakebite

There is only so much that can be done..... the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", applies. My comment was really just a bit of sarcasm, since I have beat this horse to death over the years, using the exact same examples that you used. Enforcement of the rules does indeed start at the top of the game, but the fact remains that rule enforcement can only be accomplished at the Club level. If the rules are not enforced at our Major events, then it becomes more likely that they will be disregarded at our local events. I believe that more people are swept with loaded firearms at the Loading tables than at any other location on the Firing Line. The LTO is an important position. If another shooter is to be used as a "temporary" LTO, then that person should take the job seriously while doing it. He/she should NOT continue to load their own guns while inspecting others. Just step out of character for the moment, be the LTO and do a proper job of it. Then become a shooter again and let the next person at the LT assume the mantle of LTO. It is NOT as good as having a dedicated LTO, but it is far better than nothing at all, which is what is now happening at far too many matches. Snakebite

Humm? Seems like I've heard all of this before.

Humm, I looked at the link. It does say Super Blackhawk, but the Hammer doesn't look like one to me. Snakebite

Shells

I've been shooting BP in this game for 25 yrs, and know that guns can get hot. However the Shotgun gets the hottest, and the finger tips often touch the barrel. The leather slides for the SXS fore End were the first thing to make appearances, and it was expanded to other leather wrap types. Using leather on the 97 was considered an advantage allowing the a shooter to rack the gun easier using the heel of the hand. Snakebite

The reason was initially for sxs BP shooters. The barrels get very hot on a long shotgun string.

I do not care for them. I have too many failure to fire... however, I still have some of the older Winchester nickel plated primers that work well for me. Snakebite

Misty... I was thinking about the exact two examples that your mentioned, with Lamar and Kate. I remember razzing him about it the day it took place. I told him he didn't look any older to me. Somewhere I even have a photo of me with the original SASS #1000. Kate is a lot better looking, and has much more personality. Snakebite

Come on Bill, that is a Lame example that would apply to most states. If you don't have a CCW that's good in the state, then most places would nail you. That is not just here in Ca., but in most states. I'm happy for you down in Ga., that you can do anything you want legally. After the Law changes, and it will, you can still do anything that want until you get caught. That is the same here in Ca. too. I haven't heard of many folks getting their doors kicked in and the Storm Troopers racing in and dragging folks away..... at least not without good cause. Don't let your Southern Roots get you to thinking that everyone in Ca. is a Nut Case. We do have plenty of them out here, but I've been to Ga... and there are few of them there too, in fact, they are loose just about every where now days. This is going sideways, sorry. Snakebite

Horse Hocky.. if you want to come shoot a Cowboy match in Ca. you have no problem doing it. And, I can buy any gun that I want to buy here. No doubt that there are a few places that allow for easier gun sales, but if you think that is going to last, you'd be wrong. Background checks and such WILL become the enforced law everywhere. It's just a matter of time.... and not a long time either. It really gets me that some folks won't sell a gun to someone in Ca... why, because they are too lazy to get on line and get the shipment approval. If you are not doing something illegal, then just get the approval number and ship it. This idea that you can't do anything in Ca. is just not so. Yeah, it's easier in some places...……….. for now. Snakebite

I didn't say that it had more camping than Founders Ranch, or that it was a better facility. I compared it to Norco. Further more, I was not intending to "Sell" the idea of relocating to CVR, I was responding to the doubt that posted as to the capability of the CVR location. No it does not have the room that Founders Ranch has, but the fact that it was done at Norco just proves that it can be done elsewhere too. My point was to introduce the possibility of moving it around to other facilities that are located in a more desirable location. Yes, it is indeed now located in NM, and it is a fantastic facility, and they have invested a lot of money in it, but that does not mean that it is a sound business decision to continue it there. Maybe yes, maybe no. There are two aspects here. One is the Game, the other is the private business of SASS. They are usually tied directly together, but in fact, the Business will always Trump the Game. It always has, and always will. I agree that it will never move unless the WB/BOD decides that it would be more profitable to move. That may very well never happen, but any business must consider all possibilities.

Just a comment, CVR certainly has more camping space that Norco ever had. I attended all EOTs at Norco from 1993 until the end. I didn't much care for the facilities, but the event was so spectacular and exciting that it covered up the fact that it was a less than stellar facility. The fact that it had a huge population that was somewhat local to draw from really did put it over the top. Everyone in So Cal is looking for something to do, and it was convenient to drive out and take a look see, and they did. Those days are gone, and I'm glad that I was lucky enough to have participated in them. No doubt that the total numbers are down. Anyone that does not acknowledge that fact is just not being realistic. It might have been considered already, but it seems that if EOT were to move around to Choice locations it might draw more attention. An adequate facility at a Prime location could be leased every year and the Show could begin. There is no doubt that California's Central Coast is one of the Prime areas in the US to visit. It has the best weather to be had and plenty of places to visit up and down the coast that are within a easy and beautiful drive alone one of American most scenic routes, US. Plenty of Wine tasting at the many wineries just a quick drive away. The Shooting facility is at least as good, if not better than it was at the Old EOT. It would take a huge commitment from the local club, and even more support from SASS in the form of warm bodies to do the work. But there might be a possibility of drawing a lot of help from the huge College crowd just 12 mi down the road. I'm sure that there are other Prime spots that could also be considered on a rotational basis. But moving around would certainly give more exposure to key locations around the country. There are a lot of places that folks would rather visit than the current location. It might not be feasible, and is just a thought, but as nice as the Founders Ranch is, the location hurts it. The ONLY reason that they get what they do get is because they are the Worlds Championship, and shooters have absolutely no other choice than to attend if they want to go to the World Championship. There is no other reason to be there. If that draw were to be coupled with a place that folks would actually like to visit, it might enjoy a resurgence. Snakebite

It's not easy, and I sure don't want anyone to think that I encourage it on any regular basis. If it has to be done and can not be corrected, then it must be done. I've done it only 3 times. Although there have been a number of time that I have ask a spotter to pay better attention. Once was with one of my best friends.. he had some visiting guest that he just continued gabbing with while spotting, and IMO it was effecting his ability to do the job right. I finally just took the Spotters stick from him and told him to go ahead and visit. Once was a guy at the Western Regional that would just sit back on his cart and would simply report what the other two spotters would report. He was not in a good position to see from where he was sitting. I ask for the stick and told him that I wanted someone that could move around and see what was going on. It didn't seem to bother him. The third time was the worst. It was at WR. A very top ranked young shooter would grab a spotting position on every stage. He would then proceed to actively yell and coach every shooter on his team through the course of fire. I ask him to stop, but he just said that was the way that they trained together and wouldn't stop. He was constantly in my way and would miss a lot of calls because of this "Cheerleading". I ask him to give me the flag and stop spotting. He got pissed and made a scene about it. It was the worst posse that I have ever had in my life.

Man it happens! A few years ago I found myself standing there imitating a post. It dawned on me that I had simply lost my concentration. Turns out that I needed some water and a cookie. That brought me right back, but now I watch for it. I normally do 5 shooters and pass off my duties as a Spotter or a T.O. After a little R&R, I will go back and relieve someone. We are all a team, and everyone should be supporting the Shooter best they can. Snakebite

Good post. IMO other than the shooter, Spotters are the most important factor in determining who wins. Their ability to make the right call is paramount in this game. I totally agree that Spotting is becoming more difficult in today's game than it use to be. For some reason people will jump right into the Spotters position before they will assist in other needed positions. Too many times I've seen Spotters "Asleep at the Wheel", just kinda standing there taking up space. It is a job that requires the person to be attentive and alert. A spotter should not be gabbing all the time , he/she should be closely watching the action. Since spotter provide feedback to the T.O., they need to have a good understanding of the rules. Very few people can maintain the attention needed to do a good job of spotting for the entire stage. Spotters need to take a break and hand it off to someone else that is fresh. I read the question about how do you know if a spotter is not doing a good job. Well there are a number of signs that would indicate that the spotter ought to be replaced. Constantly looking to see what the other spotters have before making their call, or constantly being out of step with the other spotters, constantly gabbing rather than paying attention. Trying to spot while sitting on his backside away from the action. Sorry about that, I know that some folks must sit down, I need to do it some myself, but you CAN NOT do a good job of spotting while sitting on your donkey. A spotter needs to be mobile so that he/she can actually see what is going on. A big match is not the place for a newbie to learn the art of Spotting.. we all need the practice, but there is a time and place for most things. Watching for the miss is a good way to make a good call if the surroundings are suitable, such as a dirt bay or such. Seeing where the bullet hits can offer major feedback as to a solid hit, an edge hit or a clean miss. Bottom line is that anyone in the Spotting position should be doing a good job, no excuses for age, infirmities, or anything. If you can't do a good job of Spotting, then don't get into the position. If you are the T.O. and don't like the way someone is spotting, then gently replace them. Snakebite

Yeah... I was indeed taking it to the max. It would have little effect at a monthly match, and it really wouldn't matter much to me. I was just basically quoting the rules. I would not allow it at a big match. So the guy is allowed to change categories... and then he goes on to knock someone else out of a buckle, SASS rules were not followed, and now the guy that gets knocked down a notch is not happy, and has every right to be unhappy. That's not right IMO. Borrowing a gun to get through the day would be my first choice at any match, that would not be breaking any rules. Of course there is the option of shooting the one gun and changing the cylinder or reloading that gun on the clock. That's also legal. My old friend Tom Dudley Squat use to do that all the time. At a local monthly match it would be easiest and have the least consequences to just allow him to use the extra pistol with the adjustable sights. That would have little effect on anyone. IMO, changing categories should be the last consideration, and to repeat, it really doesn't matter much at monthly match., anything higher than that I would not be flexible. If I were there, I'd just give him the ammo and let him shoot one of my guns and continue. Snakebite

Well, how wonderful, if we can switch Categories then I think I'll go to WR, shoot Elderstatesman with both hands and Smokeless for the first 11 stages, and then switch to Senior FC Duelist. I'm sure that nobody would have a problem with that. If you are at a local monthly match, then just let him continue to shoot the gun with adjustable sights. THAT is a much better answer than allowing a category change in the middle of a match.

Yes, but category requirements must first be met.

So what's the question? Illegal equipment is illegal. Snakebite