H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

I suppose they would be okay in the "Open" category for long range/single shot events.

Okay, let me say right up front that the "best" caliber to have a Winchester in, original or reproduction, is your favorite caliber. Nothing is better than that. But from a "generic collection" standpoint, what are the "generic" or iconic caliber for the various model of Winchester, especially for shooting purposes. Here are my thoughts. Henry: .44-40. Now, the originals were all .44 Henry rimfire. It is theoretically possible that some were converted to .44 Henry Centerfire, but if you really want to shoot a Henry, you are talking a replica version. As far as I know, they have been available in .44 Special, .44-40 and .45 Colt. I have heard .44 Russian discussed, but I believ that's an an aftermarket modification. Of the three options available, since none of them are the original chambering, it's hard to say that any one of them is the ideal. Given it's heritage and where things went, I'll give the edge to the .44-40. 1866: .44-40. Everything said about the Henry can be said about the 66, except there is nothing theoretical about .44 Centerfire conversions, even if they are rare. Also, reproductions are also available in .32-20 and I believe, .38-40. But for the same reasons, I give .44-40 the edge. From here on out, the cartridge choice does not require much, if any, comment. Other rounds were and are available, but one chambering clearly rises about the others on the basis of "originality." Note that just for the purposes of this listing, originals always trump reproductions. 1873: .44-40. 1876: .45-75. Personally, I'd say .45-60 for ease of reloading, but it is my understanding that .45-75 was the more popular caliber back in the day. 1886: .45-70 1892: .44-40 1894: .30-30 1895: .30-40 71: .348 Winchester. There were also 2 models each that were variations of the 1892 and the 1894 in mostly the same calibers, but also in some that were not available in the parent rifle. Off the top of my head, .218 Bee and .219 Zipper come to mind. I can never keep them all straight. I think I'd be most likely to go with the odd calibers for these variants, or .25-20 if they did not have an odd option. But now, the interesting question. These may have been the "main" calibers for the rifles in question, but if you were able to have 2 examples of each, one in the main caliber, and another in the caliber of your choice, original or replica, what would you be likely to choose? .38 Special would probably dominate in the pistol caliber models, but who knows? For me, it would be as follows: Henry: .45 Colt. 66: 32-20 73: .32-20 76: .45-60 (reproduction) 86: A tough one to choose. I'd probably go with .33 WCF. 92: .32-20 94: .38-55 95: .30-'06 I think the "secondary" choice is far more interesting, as there is so much more to choose from. And yes, I have soft spot for .32-20. But that's a topic for another thread. As is the .25-20, which I have recently become interested in, but have not started down the pathway of yet.

Huh. You are correct. I did not know that, but you are right. I looked through the handbook, and I assume the lack of an external hammer is what makes them a no-no. I agree with you that they should be legal, but unless it can be argued that that teardrop shaped thing on the side of the frame is a hammer, it can't be. Thinking about it, I have a vague recollection of this being asked about a long time ago, but I don't remember what, if anything was said about it. Oddly, a Martini shotgun would be legal, as shotguns don't have to have exposed hammers. I've used mine on occasion, and no one ever raised objections. I was operating under the assumption that if the shotgun was okay, the rifle was too. Looks like I was incorrect. Oh well. Glad I never showed up with one for a long range side match, that would have been embarrassing!

One of the reasons I said 5 stage matches instead of 6 was to make be less grueling over the course of the week. I was thinking a lot of shooting with different stuff, but kept to a manageable level.

Well, the Trapdoor is, in my opinion, one of the best options. But with that said, you said you want something that ejects, so I'd say see if you can find a Martini. I don't believe they were originally made in that caliber, but more than a few have been converted over the years and are available for a reasonable price.

Absolutely. The things done on Monday thru Thursday are subject to rescheduled according to what makes the most sense. As far as the side matches on Friday go, well, anything goes. I have lotsa "side match ideas" that would make for a good one stage thing. The more variety the better, I say.

Well, I'll try anything once. But by west of the Hudson, I mean, it's too far from the Atlantic Ocean. We New Englanders are rather spoiled when it comes to our fish. But let that go. I will hereby publicly announce that if I ever make it, I will try the fish fry.

When and where is that?

That does sound like a good one! My initial idea was for the all of it to be crammed into Side Match Friday. A "Five Stage Sidematch," where stage 1 is Wild Bunch, Stage Two is Zoot, Stage 3 is Steampunk and so on and so forth. But then I hit on the idea of spreading out over the whole week. Manchester, KY? I gotta look that one up. Sounds like something shoot for someday, no pun intended. Where is Manchester, anyway? What's it near? My Grandma was from Owensoboro. The only thing about that gives me pause is the fish fry. I'm from New England. I never eat fish west of the Hudson river.

.45-70 is a great cartridge. It has a mystique like no other. I have several guns chambered for it. I'll talk more about them in the days to come...

Hey! I am doing everything I can to deny that I will be 60 in October! And keep my mind sharp by coming up with more and more bizarre ideas. All kidding aside, that's why I put the main Cowboy Match at the end, cuz I figured most would do just that and not bother with the earlier things. And another part of me making these suggestions is very simple; sooner or later more people will be at a "Big Shoot" that I happen to be at, and they will go out of their way to meet this lunatic with all the crazy ideas on the Wire. At least, I hope they will want to!

Never mind a weekend. How would we do a week long shoot, starting on a Monday, and ending the following Sunday? Really very simple. Monday: 5 stage Zoot Shoot Tuesday: 5 stage modern "3-Gun" shoot. Wednesday: 5 stage Steampunk Shoot (Based more on taking 1800's shooting tech to an extreme than costuming, although that is encouraged. In other words. the Broomhandle is legal. So would other weird contraptions. Mare's Leg pistols. Pre-1900 DA revolvers. If you wanna trick out a 66 like Doc Brown in Back the the Future III, or use one of those Rube Goldburg contraptions that puts a magazine on a single shot shotgun, go for it! Wide open weirdness within safety concerns is okay. Repeating shotguns preloaded like a rifle.) Thursday: 5 stage Wild Bunch Shoot Friday: Creative Side Match Day. In addition to speed this, speed that and speed the other thing, 5 creative stages using different types of firearms. Derringers, pocket pistols, single shots, etc in different combinations. Whatever the Creative Side matches are will be revealed well in advance. Shoot as many different Side matches as you want, but anyone who shoots all 5 will somehow be "recognized" as having had done so. Saturday: Regular Cowboy Match Day 1 Sunday: Regular Cowboy Match Day 2. You can attend all events, or just the regular Cowboy Match if that's all that interests you. Allows for a week long major event, a true shooting vacation. Friday could get really interesting, depending on how many different ideas are come up with. Any takers?

Interesting, but we never really got a good view of the number!

Apparently, a huge shooting range is being built in Cody, Wyoming called the Wyoming Shooting Complex. Their website says they wanna be go to place for all kinds of shooting disciplines. I first learned of it on the CMP's website, and after looking at the WSC's website, I found myself wondering if SASS was involved in any way. I mean, Cody, Wyoming? I am sure most of us are familiar with that locality for a reason or two. It seems to me that a big shooting complex there would be a very logical place for Cowboy Action Shooting to take place. Anybody know if anybody is doing anything?

.45-70 doesn't have to kick. My first .45-70 load was a "Trapdoor Safe" load made with 405 grain bullet and 27 grains of H4198. It worked very well in my 1884 Trapdoor rifle. But when I got an 1873 Trapdoor carbine and a 20" Winchester 1886, it became extremely unpleasant to shoot. So, I switched to 12 grains of Trail Boss. Suddenly there was next to no recoil worth noticing. Even less recoil with a 300 grain bullet. So, .45-70 does not have to have a lot of recoil.

Don't "give notice." Go to your boss and say, "Boss, I thinking about putting in for retirement soon. Not sure when yet, but I wanted to ask about what I need to do, and how much notice do I need to give?" Notice that you have no given notice, just asked about it and said it's likely to come up in the near future.

I've done that once or twice. Just shooting one pistol black, the other smokless sound like fun, but get's strangely boring. I wind up switching to all one type during the match, unless I am in different calibers, or did not bring enough to do so. But, shooting a whole match with the Sheriff's model, using smokeless, and then making the last round of the last stage black get's a lot of fun reactions.

While I don't have any cap & ball pistols, I often shoot a pair of guns that are very different from each other. These .44's often go together. Even more dramatic are these... The Big Iron and the Small Iron aren't even close to the same caliber. To say nothing of these... The Tiny Iron is a .32 S&W. I *could* run .45-70 in the Giant Iron, but am too chicken to try! And size isn't the only way to be different. These three guys are .44-40s, but that's all they have in common. I will often mix and match them, just for fun. In other words, be as different with your pistols as you want to be. The myth of needing a matched pair is just that, a myth.

Tried 10 grains. It makes a respectable mouse fart load and gives you stuck wads a lot. Bumped up to 12. Works great. 16.4 is a heavier load my Dad used for trap shooting.

Well, according to the announcement.... Announcement. By special authorization, the CMP is pleased to announce the future availability and sale of surplus M14 rifles. Prior to sale, the rifles will be modified to be permanently and irreversibly semi-automatic rifles. The modified semi-automatic M14s will be fully compliant with CMP enabling legislation authorizing the transfer and sale of military surplus .30 caliber rifles. I guess that's how.

Probably, but I know I will grab one.

Well, long before they M4s become a question, this does open the door for early M-16s....

Well, this is something I never expected to hear, but it seems that the CMP has been authorized to convert M-14s to semi-auto only and sell them to the public. I am sure this is of at least peripheral interest to some of us. https://thecmp.org/l/m14-announcement/?fbclid=IwY2xjawTR_6ZwZG9mAWV4dG4DYWVtAjExAGJyaWQRMVNmQ1haVGc2TXhBdFVBVGJzcnRjBmFwcF9pZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEeSm6f5rXRflQPvpvFVX4DbC3sD60U6TGklozr--FfO_ovJH9NF3sLa-_93yk_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw Wow...

I don't know if this would work. It would have to be at a club where there was a trap house located where it could be done safely, or a purpose built one would have to be added to one of stage locations. Stage is a typical 10-10-4 type scenario, except it's 10-10-5. After you shoot your pistol and rifle targets, you take 1 shotgun target from each of the 5 stations on a trap field. You set the thrower so they are all thrown in the same direction, and you put a "make up" target off to the side to make up for any misses. Depending on how a club is laid out, it might be physically impossible to set something like this up, but perhaps at a place where it could be done, it would make for an interesting variation for one stage. I suppose it could also be done with either a skeet field or a sporting clays location, but that might make it too complicated.

That is interesting. I've seen a few over the years. The factory .22s are just a little different from the full size ones, but the conversions of course are not, and they reallystand out.