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SASS Categories


Cypress Sam, SASS #10915

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My reason for asking this question was to try to determine what the official SASScategories and the SASS recognized unofficial categories really are.

 

My personal opinion is that there are too many categories now, particularly the age based categories broken down into five year increments! I just don't think it has meaning to be awarded a trophy when you're the only one in the category.

Sam, re-read posts 5 and 6. There is no such thing as a list of "recognized unofficial categories." If they are unofficial, they are not "recognized."

 

This thread does point out a problem. When ever a new shooter asks about categories a lot of people simply refer them to the handbook. The problem is the handbook section on categories is not intuitive and is hard to decipher. There are people that have shot for years that cannot devine all the categories from the handbook. At the end of the section on categories SASS really should have a sentence that reads something like, "As of the date of this edition of the rule book the SASS categories are:" and they should be listed. Either that or put them in one of the appendices to the handbook.

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So there's no female version of the frontiersman category?

Actually, add Frontierswoman back in. I have never seen it offered at any match. However, it does seem to be allowed by the rules.

 

"All SASS categories may be subdivided by gender (e.g. Lady Duelist, Lady Gunfighter, Lady 49‘er, Lady Wrangler, etc.)."

Shooters Handbook, page 13.

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I don't want to debate this as I know what match costs are and my comments weren't related to WR. I know what our costs are down to the penny. However, out of curiosity how many matches with 300 or more shooters have you run? The sentence I have re-marked in red is the worse kind of speculation on your part.

I have attended $85 per person matches where the award was a dollar floor tile with pasted on placement title, or a pine board with paper title or a welded horseshoe thingy. In recent times, Slick mentioned his cost for nice looking buckles at something like $5 each. Those were small time matches and as I was eluding to, they didn't have much into the extra awards. The bigger the match, the more the entry fee, the more entries, the fancier the extra awards can be. For a low attended specialty category, there are few entries. or awards needed. That transilates to a bump in the award expense category.

 

So, how many multi-10's of million dollar budgets have you worked on? I am not the only one here that has had fingers in big budgets, so a $166,000 budget is not impressive. LOL, there are probably some SASS shooters that have larger family monthly budgets than that.

 

Biggest SASS match may have been the 2016 WR. 791 shooters @ $210 per person (low end) = approx $166,000 + any no shows that did not shoot but paid, That is what you have to work with. Right? I've worked on budgets that we rounded to $250,000 increments and our contribution to Corporate, didn't even register on their budget.

 

Of course, smaller matches follow the same budget process but there isn't as many zeros behind the first number.

 

I haven't witnessed a match that didn't make some money for club improvements. No doubt there has been financial loss matches. And I am all for clubs making money for club improvements (targets, building, toilets, gravel and the like)

 

I have nothing against WR, it has/is a success story

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Larry, of course you can shoot Ourlaw Gunfighter category next month. I may have to shoot it with you since I just had a retina detachment and won't be able to shoot my shotgun from the shoulder for a while.

 

Larson, I agree that the Handbook is hard to decipher as far as categories are concerned. That's why I asked the question. There categories that have been recognized at EOT and Regionals that are not SASS "recognized" categories. A for instance is Senior Gunfjghter in which I got a medal at EOT ant won twice at the Southeast Regionals. Senior Gunfighter is not a recognized SASS category, but must be an unofficial unrecognized category. There seem to be others like that that are not "real" categorIes but are recognized at regional and National matches but don't appear in the Handbook.

 

As Match Director in Orlando, I certainly want to accommodate all styles of shooting, such as Tradioional, Duelist, Gunfighter, Outlaw, the Black Powder categories, and the Coustume categories. Much less so applying all of the age groups to the shooting style categories.

 

Personally, I would do away with all or most age based categories (and I'll turn 80 next year). Sure you slow down a little as your eyesight begins to fade, your reaction time is slower than it was, and you sure as Hell can't run as fast. But as Evil Roy proved, an old guy can still be competitive. Maybe I couldn't win EOT at 80, but maybe I couldn't have won it at 25 either!

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Larry, of course you can shoot Ourlaw Gunfighter category next month. I may have to shoot it with you since I just had a retina detachment and won't be able to shoot my shotgun from the shoulder for a while.

 

Larson, I agree that the Handbook is hard to decipher as far as categories are concerned. That's why I asked the question. There categories that have been recognized at EOT and Regionals that are not SASS "recognized" categories. A for instance is Senior Gunfjghter in which I got a medal at EOT ant won twice at the Southeast Regionals. Senior Gunfighter is not a recognized SASS category, but must be an unofficial unrecognized category. There seem to be others like that that are not "real" categorIes but are recognized at regional and National matches but don't appear in the Handbook.

 

As Match Director in Orlando, I certainly want to accommodate all styles of shooting, such as Tradioional, Duelist, Gunfighter, Outlaw, the Black Powder categories, and the Coustume categories. Much less so applying all of the age groups to the shooting style categories.

 

Personally, I would do away with all or most age based categories (and I'll turn 80 next year). Sure you slow down a little as your eyesight begins to fade, your reaction time is slower than it was, and you sure as Hell can't run as fast. But as Evil Roy proved, an old guy can still be competitive. Maybe I couldn't win EOT at 80, but maybe I couldn't have won it at 25 either!

There is no such thing as an unofficial unrecognized category. What we have are SASS categories AND anything else a match director at a particular match decides to offer. Senior Gunfighter is fairly typical. There are others like Outlaw, Josie Wales, and Pale Rider that are sort of Regional favorites that are not shot in other Regions. For some of these Regional offerings there are no SASS rules for they type of shooting being offered. In those cases the rules are also whatever local custom dictates.

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I have attended $85 per person matches where the award was a dollar floor tile with pasted on placement title, or a pine board with paper title or a welded horseshoe thingy. In recent times, Slick mentioned his cost for nice looking buckles at something like $5 each. Those were small time matches and as I was eluding to, they didn't have much into the extra awards. The bigger the match, the more the entry fee, the more entries, the fancier the extra awards can be. For a low attended specialty category, there are few entries. or awards needed. That transilates to a bump in the award expense category.

 

So, how many multi-10's of million dollar budgets have you worked on? I am not the only one here that has had fingers in big budgets, so a $166,000 budget is not impressive. LOL, there are probably some SASS shooters that have larger family monthly budgets than that.

 

Biggest SASS match may have been the 2016 WR. 791 shooters @ $210 per person (low end) = approx $166,000 + any no shows that did not shoot but paid, That is what you have to work with. Right? I've worked on budgets that we rounded to $250,000 increments and our contribution to Corporate, didn't even register on their budget.

 

Of course, smaller matches follow the same budget process but there isn't as many zeros behind the first number.

 

I haven't witnessed a match that didn't make some money for club improvements. No doubt there has been financial loss matches. And I am all for clubs making money for club improvements (targets, building, toilets, gravel and the like)

 

I have nothing against WR, it has/is a success story

I have worked on and administered bugets of over $250 million dollars as if that has any bearing on match financing. As I said I am not going to debate with you over something you know nothing about. The WR budget is many pages long, involves more than just shooter entry fees, and the only thing I will say is our buckles cost a lot more than $5.00. So your suggestion that adding categories only amounts to a few dimes extra simply does not hold water. Every match has a different cost structure. Broad, ill-informed statements simply makes life more difficult for those that put on our State, Regional, National and World matches.

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Actually, add Frontierswoman back in. I have never seen it offered at any match. However, it does seem to be allowed by the rules.

 

"All SASS categories may be subdivided by gender (e.g. Lady Duelist, Lady Gunfighter, Lady 49‘er, Lady Wrangler, etc.)."

Shooters Handbook, page 13.

Thats the original reason why I put it in the list. I haven't seen it offered either, but hey you never know!

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I have worked on and administered bugets of over $250 million dollars as if that has any bearing on match financing. As I said I am not going to debate with you over something you know nothing about. The WR budget is many pages long, involves more than just shooter entry fees, and the only thing I will say is our buckles cost a lot more than $5.00. So your suggestion that adding categories only amounts to a few dimes extra simply does not hold water. Every match has a different cost structure. Broad, ill-informed statements simply makes life more difficult for those that put on our State, Regional, National and World matches.

Working on a $250 million budget is a far cry from a $166k budget, but you should understand.

 

i fail to see if a large SASS shoot offers a one time category of a small number of entries/catagory, like elder statesman/grand dame-frontier-cartridge-left-handed-gun-fighter, with five folks..... with awards total averaging $25 each or $125 total,,,,, divided over 800 shooters, the cost would be,,,,, um,,, 15cents extra per entry. OK, I made a mistake, make it 30cents per attendee. Wow, those five shooters brought you in, over $1000 in entry fee, for $?? cost. cheap, cheap advertisement and potential for future sales. Help me out here, what am I missing? If those five shooters didn't attend the big match, half of them had spouses, what did the Match Director save?

 

heck, a match could offer a $60k Cadillac prize to each entry.... Just have a box on entry form: Ck box if you want to win a new Cadillac, .... enter in $60k for gurrantee door price in box b + $300 for main match fee in box a,,,, for a total of $60,300 in box c. Make ck payable to BR549 and Junior Sample. Done deal.

 

I see we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Your $25.00 cost is off by a factor of over 15 for the first place trohpy alone. As I said you have no idea of the costs involved therefore your statements are completely ill-informed and misleading. We don't have to agree to disagree. Your assumptions are incorrect.

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