H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

And it just occurred to me, the shotgun would be great for Josey Wales.

Oh, I know. Still can't cross state lines either. Amazingly, you can have SBRs where I live.

1. What will this mean for the inflated price that pre-1934 short barrel Winchesters and Marlins command. Now that new ones can be made, the old ones will still be collectables, but they may not command as much of a premium. 2. But more intriguingly, remember this? I've always wanted one of these. Now I can have one! Come on, SASS, make both of these things legal!

Ah. A little far for me.

Do you have the link to the "list" that the ad references?

Yeah, I didn't realize that the crossing state lines thing was CGA not NFA. Go figures. But, even if these things were still under NFA, I have real questions about telling people that can't freely travel with their personal property. That seems, wrong somehow. And, if I have my Mare's Leg, go to another state to visit relatives, or even to participate in a shooting event, how have I engaged in COMMERCE with my gun? It was, is, and remains my property. No commerce is taking place. I know the Commerce Clause is used to justify a lot of strange things, but I really don't see how it applies here. Even if you want to say that being subject to NFA 34 rules makes items regulatable under the CC, things things are no regulated anymore. I don't see how this can stand. We still need a SCOTUS ruling to throw all of the non machine gun stuff out on multiple grounds. Then it can't come back. Once the dust settles on all of that, maybe we'll be able to start pecking at machine guns too. One step at a time.

So where is "Firelands?"

Oh good grief. I've been known to overly pedantic at times, but this is silly. It's not a cartridge loop. It's a holster loop. Move on. And speaking of silly... How would you fit ammo in either place? Especially if there is already a rubber hose and a can of beer in those places? Is this becoming an anatomy lesson? And... I am NOT gonna go there! Nope. Uhn uh. Not gonna do it. Here in the Northeast, the real reason for the decline is that in states like ours, our gun laws are putting a big snafu in the works. Wanna come shoot in Massachusetts? You better have the local gun permit if you don't wanna go to jail. Personally, something that I think has contributed to the decline is the way more and more clubs have switched from Saturday to Sunday. When I started, I'd say it was at least an even split, or even that Saturday was more common. But in recent years, that has changed. All but 2 clubs I go to in Massachusetts have switched to Sunday, and one of them, instead of holding its year end event this Saturday, is doing it on Sunday, so I can't go. But maybe that's just a thing here in the Northeast. And in the words of Eric Idle, "I'd like to conclude by putting my finger up my nose." This post not brought to you by a man with three buttocks.

Sorry. I find it hard to trust someone who looks like a cat. You could be a Kzinti indisguise.

Could they be things for side mounting a scope on a real Winchester 94?

That could work. Just don't confuse it with the .45-45.

All of the above is why I just load everything to Traddoor safe specs. Don't need to accidentally put the wrong ammo into a gun that can't handle it. Of course, at least for single shots (and some repeaters) I can always use .45-45 for a round no higher than a high pressure .45 Colt.

It won't affect your sight picture. As to if it is "better" with the hood or not, well, it's an argument that will never be settled. PERSONALLY, I don't like hoods, as I think they look goofy. I much prefer a simple blade front sight But the odd thing is that the hooded sights are not over a simple, traditional front blade. They are a blade on a ramp made to hold the hood. When the hood is gone, yes, I think it looks better, but I also immediately notice that something is missing. I have guns with the hood, with the hood missing, and with a traditional blade. I find that changing any of them is more trouble than it's worth.

I have no problem with the firing squad, especially for a military execution. The Nuremberg ruling is a valid argument in favor of hanging him, but let that go. Over the years I have argued with myself as to if executions should be public, and when all is said and done, I come down on the side of no. If I am going to be consistent with my thought processes, then I have to say this one should not be either. However, I have also always felt that they should be recorded, and that if people wish to view the recordings, they should be accessible to those who wish to see them. The recordings, I feel, are important for a record of history. A recent example is Saddam Hussein. His hanging should have been properly filmed. We should have a better record that it actually happened than a poor quality cell phone recording. And while I do believe that capital punishment is the proper penalty for certain crimes, and that the Fort Hood shooter is deserving of it, I will take no joy in his death. Justice will be served for his crimes, and that is just. But I can not rejoice in knowing what will happen when he stands before God. I hope he listens to the chaplain that gets a chance to talk to him, but I don't think he will.

Here's how it looks from my Massachusetts perspective. Local laws are surprisingly silent on Short Barreled Rifles, so the only rules that you need to comply with are the NFA 34 ones, and there is not even anything in state law about having to do that, like some other states have. As such this, and after consulting with a local gunsmith, this... ...will soon have a barrel no longer than the take down lever. It'll be a very nice .45-70 Mare's Leg. What I fond bizarre about the ruling is that while all of the other SBR regs are gone, you still need permission to cross state lines with them. That makes absolutely no sense. Why they kept that rule is a mystery, and I don't see how it can survive for very long. On the other hand, silencers are specifically banned independently of NFA '34 in this state, so them being removed from the oversight of that law is a moot point. As to if that will long survive the scrutiny of the courts, who can say. BTW, I had my porch painted. Pics of guns on the pristine floor are just not as much fun to look at! Oh, for what it's worth, I have no plans to shorten the barrel on my 73 based "Buntline Mare's Leg" with the 16" barrel. I kinda like it. I may however, create another one with a shorter one in time.

That was the one I was trying to remember for super heavy loads.

I like this thread. I am learning things.

Very important question: Can your rifle handle higher pressure loads? I never run ANYTHING in .45-70 rifles except "Trapdoor Safe" loadings. Now, depending on your rifle, many things can run ammo very safely that should never be anywhere near a Trapdoor. But, anything safe in them, is safe in anything else. I know for example that the Winchester 86 is capable of much higher pressures, and much commercial ammo is loaded to a level for that rifle. There is also reloading data for the cartridge that even the 86 can't handle, but certain other rifles can. I ask because you said your rifle is Winchester a 1885. I don't own one of those, but I believe that Winchester stopped making them in 1920. I have no idea how strong the action is, but for a 100 plus year old gun, I'd wanna run less powerful rounds unless I know for a fact it can handle more. It may very well be able to handle very strong loads, but I just don't know.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry if it did not come across. Whilst "lettering" my entire collection, (well what could be lettered) I was confronted with more than a few guns with no real way to check when they were made. An example is my Dad's Winchester 101 O/U trap gun. Cody has no records for this model. So on the "cover sheet" in my collection book, I entered this... Manufacture Date: Between 1963 and 1987 That's when they were made. Now, I was born in 1966, and I can't remember a time when Dad didn't have this gun, but since he didn't save the sales receipt of any other original paperwork, I feel that the above is the best I can do. Many of my guns have similar notations. Sadly, more than a few have "Unknown" listed there as I can't even find a vague date range. I kind of get it. Many gun makers didn't think these records were important. Some were lost to fires, floods, or just plain human error. What's "irksome" to me is how gun makers that are still around and do maintain the records, like Remington, won't do letters, or at least make the data available for personal research. (As to what happened to their records when they went belly up, nobody knows. The Parker Collector's Association obtained their Parker records, but the Remington Collector's Association did not acquire their general records.) Also, what happened to the records of fairly modern companies that went way, like USFA? Nobody knows. It's a curiosity of our hobby.

Ah, good point. I was only thinking about the barrels, not the gun as a whole. Even though there are no serial number records. there may be data available to tell you at least the year range of your model. Start with that. If it's a pre-1900 gun, probably black powder only. If it's straddles, perhaps more data can help you narrow it down to a smaller range. I am no expert, on H&A guns, and my own research has been not turned up anything definitive on my shotgun, but to be honest, I have not tried very hard. Maybe with effort, more info can be found.

Yeah, I saw that. It's quite nice. And amazingly, Massachusetts has NO SBR restrictions. So, today, among other things, I have my gunsmith working on taking my 16.5" barrel .45-70 Mare's Leg and shortening it to less than that.

Nice looking gun. Fluid steel? I'd shoot smokeless in it. Just be sure to either use shorter shells, or lengthen the chamber/forcing cone. This is part of why I shoot 2.5" Magtechs. Most my my SASS type shotguns are old enough to have 2-5/8" chambers. Or even as short as 2-1/2" Yes, you can trim things like AAs to the shorter length an add an overshot card to keep the shot in. But the all brass stuff just looks cool. Good luck.

One of these? I shoot smokeless in it. Seems to be a very strong gun.

Oddly, while silencers and specifically SAWED OFF shotguns are specifically illegal in the Commonwealth, state law is surprisingly silent short barrelled shotguns and SBRs of all kinds. So, I don't have a problem there.

In a ruling yesterday the ATF basically said there are no more restrictions on owning, transferring or MAKING short barreled rifles. They also said there is no need to register them. Essentially, SBR regulations are GONE. This is a good thing. Sort of. Taking them over state lines remains regulated for some bizarre reason that I don't understand. All of this assumes that I understood what was said properly. From our perspective, this could have interesting connotations. First, any lingering confusion about vintage short barrel Winchesters and Marlins is done away with. Second, if for some reason you want a 14" 92, you don't have to hunt for an uber expensive one one, you can just make your own. Third, you can even make your own Mare's Leg if you want. Of course the crossing state lines retention does make things complicated. State rules against SBRs, if any, still exist. As I understand it, ATF will still allow you to register an SBR if you want to to provide compliance with States that say you must comply with NFA 34 rules for them. They will also give asked for permission to cross state lines, even if it's not registered. Overall, this is a positive development, even if there are parts I find baffling. What, if anything, SASS will do about this, such as doing away with the 16" barrel minimum, remains to be seen. I don't think they'll do anything, but it would be nice if they did. In any event, I think this could be an interesting development for us. Even if it doesn't affect our game, it may affect the interests of many of us from a collector/shooter standpoint. But I think I will be shortening the barrel on my .45-70 Mare's Leg from 16 to 14 inches now. Good luck to us all.