Creeker, SASS #43022

If the gun has significant collector's value (or significant original/ current condition value to you) - you don't cut it or subject it to the abuses found in a competition environment. (but since they made over half a million 97's; excepting a pristine Black Diamond Trap gun - it really doesn't have any significant collectors value). If the gun is for competition - you don't concern yourself with maintaining originality or for that matter anything other than making it the best tool for your purposes. (cut the barrel, shorten/ re-angle the butt, action job, etc.). So the only question is why did YOU purchase the gun? Is it a collectors item or a competition tool?

And you are somehow a demographics specialist that is intimately aware of the political leanings, activism and desires of California's migrating population? Garbage. But what should I expect from somebody that uses a product (this forum) to continually trumpet ridiculous statements and foolishness without paying to support it (guest).

Sadly - the Californians leaving California and bringing their ideas with them is FAR more prevalent than any former Californian being a proud conservative trying to escape. My state continually is over run by former California residents that state California was horrible and then keep trying to implement that same bad policy here. They say they hate Cali; but then claim, "but if only we could do this or that like we did back home" The STATE is beautiful - the majority of people and policy is horrendous.

With all due respect - you are absolutely 100% wrong. Even discounting smoothness, reliability or all other factors - if the shooter maintains the EXACT SAME SPEED of operation; it takes LESS time to move less distance. Take my Corvette / Yugo analogy from earlier. Yes, drive either at 45 mph - it will take exactly the same amount of time to cover 45 miles. True enough. But a short stroke is by definition SHORTER. Lets say the throw (travel) is 10% shorter; now the Yugo still has to travel 45 miles - the Corvette only 40.5 miles. At the exact same speed of operation - the Corvette arrives first. And lets say you travel this same route 60 times (just sheer coincidence thats the number of pistol rounds in a monthly match) But over 60 trips - the Corvette has traveled 270 miles fewer than the Yugo. The Corvette has completed the driving SIX hours before the Yugo; not by going ANY faster but simply by eliminating 10% of its travel time. Feel free to extrapolate those numbers as they apply to hammer throw. And eventually another nifty thing happens - our Corvette driver over time realizes how much more confident they feel in the Corvette and soon - instead of 45 mph; they try driving 48 mph. Now we can both agree that they are still no threat to Jeff Gordon and are in no way utilizing the full potential of their car - but they are getting more out of it than they were prior. Argue if you like - say the shooter takes three seconds to draw - and three seconds to aim. Say that for that shooter; the shorter hammer throw makes no difference and your argument is still wrong. Because EVERY shooter - fast or slow has a quantitative value of ALL the actions they must complete to finish a stage. Shorten ANY of those actions - and the time is lessened. Draw time + time to cock pistol + aiming + trigger pull = 1 shot time. Draw time + time to cock pistol (MINUS 10% of cocking time) + aiming + trigger pull = 1 shot time with short stroke. This 2nd formula is always going to be a lesser number than the 1st. Regardless of the numbers inserted.

Of course - a TOOL; whether a saw, a sportscar or a short stroked firearm CANNOT perform any function beyond what user is capable or willing to do. A quality saw in Yul Loses hand is capable of creating works of art. And a person who believes a saw is for driving nails will get zero benefit. But an average woodworker IS absolutely going to produce greater product with better tools. With Jeff Gordon behind the wheel - a Corvette can dance. With Stevie Wonder - not so much. But an average driver behind the wheel will perform better with the Vette than behind the wheel of a Yugo. The same argument stands for firearms. Maybe I can't build the works of art like Yul. Maybe I can't drive like Jeff Gordon. And I definitely can't shoot like the best in our game. But just because I can't get 100% of the potential doesn't mean I get zero of the benefit. To say otherwise is silly.

My opinion (from a decent 2nd tier gunfighter). Of course - less distance traveled generally means less time spent doing that traveling. But unlike a short stroked rifle - pistol shooting entails enough variations that the short stroke may not show measurable improvements. Of the mentioned modifications: I THINK short stroked revolvers are a bigger benefit to the two handed supported shooter. Why? The "shorter pull" is of increased benefit IF the pistol itself is NOT moving - a supported shooter is more likely to have a pistol hold less affected by recoil or grip. If you are capable of locking in the pistols movement (and as you go up the ranks in Gunfighter - more and more are) then the shorter stroke may come into play - for a lot of us who exercise a fair amout of pistol movement or muzzle flip (or utilize recoil to position the hammer for cocking); the short stroke may not be as beneficial. I PERSONALLY do not like the lowered widened hammers for gunfighter as I (again my opinion) don't like the methodology of pad on top of the hammer spur for cocking. I prefer laying my thumb into the valley in front of the spur - the shorter (lowered) spurs gives less surface to pull backwards against (and again - I use recoil rotation to position the hammer relative to my hand as opposed to locking the pistol in and "reaching forward" to the hammer) IF you are capable of locking the revolver in place one handed - AND have long enough thumbs to reach forward - AND the hand/ thumb/ wrist flexibility to cock the hammer rearward in that manner. You may find benefit. But and this is the big one - short strokes or hammer mods are solely that; mods. They will require proper technique and extensive practice to show any benefit. They don't win anyone buckles or change a shooters placements without the talent and practice to take advantage of any perceived benefits. Understand; I am NOT trying to talk anyone out of mods - and just because I either am incapable of making use of them (or are too invested in my bad habits to change) does not mean they will not benefit you. If you want them and can afford them - more power to you. But if the choice is between these mods and five thousand rounds of QUALITY practice under a skilled mentor - no contest. If you can do both - even better

I would add a caveat - just because a stage is written and present in a larger match DOES NOT mean they are good stages or WELL written. I shot EOT (a few years ago) and experienced some of the poorest stage writing I have ever encountered. I would make the same statement for certain Winter Ranges, Regionals, State Matches and various annuals as well. And before my nose gets too far in the air - I have written my fair share of questionable stages as well. The best tool I can give you is examine other peoples stages - ask someone whose stage writing you enjoy to look at the shooters book from other matches. Give your opinion of each stsge and let them guide you thru each stage to see if you missed anything. This critical eye method allows you to pick up on clunky wording - unclear instruction and weird flow. I am not a fan of brevity when it comes to stage writing - you don't need to write a book; but you are allowed to use as many words as you feel necessary to ensure a complete understanding of your expectations of the stage engagement. Allow for some creativity on the shooters part - but every stage should not be a wide open free for all affair. Shooters choice stages are nicely offset with a bit of regimentation on the next. There is nothing wrong with a round count stage - there is nothing wrong with a specific sequence of engagement. But keep in mind - the more wide open the stage; the more variance you have to accept from your shooters and the more opportunity they have to do something you did not expect or predict. Movement is fun - more positions to shoot from is better then fewer. Track meets suck and movement that is more than 4-5 paces between positions is unnecessary and begins to favor certain groups over others. Shotgun is a blast - but too many shotgun will slow your match and irritate the BP shooters. Make sure to consider the time impact from everything in your stage and dont allow non shooting components (movement, prop manipulation, etc.) to have more impact on the time than the shooting. Examine every stage, transition and movement as a Duelist, Gunfighter, Supported shooter. Think about the effect certain actions will have on blackpowder vs smokeless shooters. Think about how a stage design may affect left handers and right handers - look at your props, tables, windows, staging platforms and consider the differing heights of a 8 yr old Buckerette vs an adult. And remember the best written stage means nothing if the steel is set poorly. Size and distances matter. Make it fun - if it comes down to a choice between complex and simple; simple is always preferable. If it reads as a "P" trap - it is one. If you have to justify your stage with, "It shoots better than it reads" - either change it or explain it better. If I have to be standing in front of the stage for it to make sense - theres a problem. And lastly - your steel set "drawing" should MATCH the reality of the bay actual steel set. Your shooters should be able to use their book to prepare for the stage and match - If your drawings don't look like the steel set and too many items are needing changed or require differing directions to be added during posse marshal instructions; this tells me the match was poorly written, poorly reviewed and poorly set.

Well, glad you guys are all such upright citizens. My only caveats... No one gets hurt? No laws are broken? The WORST possible outcome is I "might" lose my job? I was/ am a complete and total mercenary regarding employment and income. My goal is ALWAYS to make the most money possible from the exchange of my efforts - never really cared who it came from. I've left jobs to go to an interview at lunch and never returned because the new job offered more money. Why should I take less money for the next two weeks to accomodate someone elses schedule? I learned very young that employers have zero loyalty to their employees - we are interchangeable and disposable cogs replaced on a whim. So I approached my employers with the same policy. Make your proposition. Make the number worth my risk/ inconvenience. And then show me the money. Pleasure doing business with you.

I appreciate that - tho you may have placed yourself in a very small minority group with that opinion. I caught Covid (and it hit me hard). I firmly believe; I am only still around because we immediately had access to oxygen at home AND my involvement in the then experimental trials with the Mono Nucleic treatment of Covid. I was down for 45 days with Covid with O2 numbers often in the low 80's and dipping into the 70's. I had extreme brain fog for nearly a year afterwards - 3 years later; I still have challenges with focus and longterm attention span. Many foods and spices lost their appeal immediately after Covid and many have never tasted correctly since. Since Covid - I often taste something in foods that I can only describe as dish soap. Like when you wash dishes but for whatever reason - all the soap didn't rinse well and then you eat off them. That taste. I guess that's why I jump so hard when folks dismiss Covid as minor or the made up plague. Covid kills. And I firmly believe that while it did seem to disproportionately affect aged and ill peoples - I also believe that generally "healthy" people can be predisposed to being overly affected as well (I think that was what happened to me and numbers of other reasonably young or healthy folks that it killed). As Covid variants mutate and return - I just hate to see folks ignore updates and base their survival on (the perhaps just sheer luck of) having not gotten ill or died the first time around.

Well... Bye

Covid nearly killed me. You're all adults - do whatever you think is best for yourself - but don't ignore it and don't believe for a second that you are invulnerable.

I absolutely LOVE to drive. Painted Lady was born in San Diego - so we take a lot of west coast road trips to the Pacific Ocean. And Cowboy Shooting in Arizona is some of the best in the country; so load up the Corvette and head that way as often as I can justify it. And northern Nevada - up to Reno and Virginia City. All of these trip are several hundred miles each - so a good road trip car is a must.

My next one is going to be either a "base" 3LT hard top convertible in or if I can swing it - the same in an E Ray. And Museum Delivery if I can make scheduling work. I love the Z06 and that 5.5 but I "think" (I admit I have not driven a 5.5 yet) it's going to be a little too high strung for a road trip / "every day" driver. And as we both know - the 6.2 is bullet proof. Im going Red Mist, carbon flash painted top and nacelles with the GT2 two tone seats in Sky Cool Grey with black seating areas (the GT3 seats are for guys skinnier than me). Low wing and a set of grey full length stripes (probably aftermarket from Vette Stripes). I'm not a fan of any of the factory wheels - so base wheels and then a bright polished forged wheel swap after I get it home. Painted Lady wants an EV - so I probably have a Mustang Mach E extended range in my future as well.

Ya think? I'm not convinced. (ok, my next one is going to be red).

Human sacrifice - Cats and dogs living together - Mass hysteria ALL preferable to the above.

Ketchup is the ONLY condiment that belongs on a hotdog. Anything else is an affront and crime against nature.

Most likely true - but that one really famous guy kinda knew he was gonna make it thru ok. It helps to have connections.

Yup, that's always the comeback from the ladies. Kidney stones? Ha! You aint felt nothing until you've pushed a human out of your happy spot. But heres the thing - a while after a woman has given birth; a few months, a year or two - they will start talking about doing it again. You aint never going to find a man on the planet that would ever voluntarily do kidney stones again.

@Pat Riot I have gone on a water kick as well. For health and to wean myself off my soda addiction (and hopefully drop a few pounds). And I fully agree ribs are nasty and mine were simple breaks. My Dr. informed me that Kidney Stones are as much a product of dehydration as the things you drink. His example was a cup of coffee (probably not a perfect analog - but understandable) - as long as it has liquid in the cup; the coffee remains dissolved and in suspension - easy to pour out. But let the liquid evaporate and you are left with a crusty material in the cup. In the human body - this crusty material can bond together and then need to pass; as he phrased it, "now you get to push a ninja throwing star thru a drinking straw". Stay on the water everyone. Avoid trailer hitches and Kidney Stones. And let's all have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Jolly Kwanza, Fabulous Festivus, (or whatever your failth, family or beliefs dictate) with a Happy New Year and a healthy 2024 for all.

Plus 847 Billion. I have lived a somewhat active life and paid for it over time. Football, wrestling, motorcycle accidents, car accidents. I have broken ankles, my nose a couple times, ribs, wrists and my orbital socket. Destroyed my knees, torn muscles and had my eyes flash burned in a welding mishap. I have had multiple hernias and had an intestinal rupture. Ya know when you hurt yourself or you're sick and the Dr./ Nurse asks your "pain number"? I thought I had a pretty good handle on that pain scale - I knew what zero feels like and I figured that while there had to be worse pains than I had experienced - I probably understood up to an eight or a nine. When I had kidney stones - I had to completely reevaluate my understanding of whole body, brain melting, soul crushing agony. Everything else that I had ever experienced was automatically pushed down a peg or two because I had just discovered a new high end. Everything else (that I have experienced) - you bite down, suck in deep breaths, attempt to mentally focus. I only time I have ever passed out was from dehydration during two a days football practice in a humid Michigan summer with a coach who believed with holding water was a training tool. So I had never experienced my body going traitor and shutting down on me solely from pain - Kidney stones nearly made that happen. I woke up feeling poorly and was debating between going to work or calling in sick. By the time I had dropped off Desert Scorpion at school; that debate had progressed to going home or going to Quick Care. Quickly after that - it became Quick Care or an Emergency room and after that - it was simply a question of whether I made it to the Emergency room. I ran every stop sign and redlight driving because my brain had already recognized, If I stopped - I would pass out. I walked into the Emergency room and was asked what was wrong; apparently when a 6 ft 250lb man with tears streaming down his face says simply "I don't know" and falls - the medical profession reacts. I would not wish Kidney stones upon my worst enemy. Not on Democrats, not on Tik Tokers, not on the Philadelphia Eagles, not on George Santos or onto California drivers. Tho I will tell you that drugs are an amazing thing.

It is a Tetris game getting everything in the current Corvette - but it can be done. The wife and I visited Yul down at the Escondido Bandidos with the current setup. Folding cart, 4 pistols, 4 long guns, ammo, clothes, hats and enough regular clothes and stuff for the weekend in San Diego. And the "peculiar" dimensions and shapes of the mid engined cars storage areas may preclude Yul from building something up to his normal standards. But I deeply admire Yul personally and his woodwork (which I am honored to currently have a smaller example of already) is extraordinary. I would always regret if I didn't attempt to have a guncart made by him.

I don't know what is so funny - I use my current Corvette to visit shoots. Gear, ammo, guns and cart. The new Corvette has TWO trunk storage areas (front and rear) - that I believe could be used for a custom cart. But that will be a discussion between Yul and myself.

Yul, You cannot retire just yet - I have a cart in mind for next year. I will have to get you dimensions and have to get your input regarding modularity and range assembly - but I would love to have one of your carts custom built to fit the available space when I finally get my new Corvette. The looks I get now when pulling all the gear out of the current Vette are hilarious; having your custom work of art coming out of a new Mid Engined one... That would be incredible.

Ill tell you a secret... Psst, lean in real close... Anyone on two wheels; crotch rocket, Harley, Bmw or Vespa scooter that impacts a car, truck or semi at any road going speed is going to have a bad day. Quit badmouthing folks or their rides just because their "game" differs from yours. ALL motorcycles are inherently dangerous and irresponsible - regardless of brand name, engine cc's or riding position - the folks that CHOOSE to risk life and limb riding them have a lot more in common than they have differences. Motorcycles are cool - PERIOD. So if you ride and you can't acknowledge that someones else's two wheeler is cool - then you are not a biker; you're just some guy who happens to own a motorcycle.

My knee is highly questionable; so had to give up two wheels. 2021 Can Am Spyder RT Limited.