Cypress Sun Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 As an aside, if any of ya'll have electrical questions, give me a pm with your question and phone #. I'll be happy call you back or pm you with answers. Pictures or videos are always easier to discern in regards to questions about a particular item. I'm not "Dear Sparky" but I'll try my best to answer legitimate questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 While the feeder to the garage is not service entrance, the residential application still applies as it is still a service that supplied to a residential garage. For residential applications there are no additional factors applied such as 125% of additional load or many other factors that do apply for commercial locations. Doesn't mean that I agree with it but that is the code as per NEC. If the circuit is installed as a dedicated circuit for say a table saw that has a amp rating of 15 amps, then the circuit breaker could be a 45 amp breaker on a #12 wire (250% of the amp rating) due to motor start up load. A fuse could be up to 175% of start up load on the same #12 wire. This DOES NOT apply to a general duty branch circuit. There is huge differences between commercial locations and residential locations in reference to NEC (National Electric Code). If Clay were doing woodworking on a commercial basis and had a workshop like Yul Lose, I certainly would not suggest the residential formula's for his application. If you can show me, in the code, that any statement that I have made is incorrect then please do. Even after 40 years of doing electrical work, I still love to learn new things..........and I've been wrong before. CS Please cite the article that states that a feeder to a sub panel located in garages of one & two family dwelling units is sized per service entrance rules. Accessing via NFPA's the free online access the 2005 edition of NFPA 70A I found no requirement that an attached or unattached garage feeder sizing is that for service entrance conductors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Please cite the article that states that a feeder to a sub panel located in garages of one & two family dwelling units is sized per service entrance rules. Accessing via NFPA's the free online access the 2005 edition of NFPA 70A I found no requirement that an attached or unattached garage feeder sizing is that for service entrance conductors. NEC Article 310.15 (B) (7). This article deals with service feeders for dwelling units. This is not a requirement but simply a feeder deduction factor that may be applied to dwelling units only. A sub panel feeding equipment in a garage (detached or not) is, by definition, a service and therefore the deduction factors can be applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 NEC Article 310.15 (B) (7). This article deals with service feeders for dwelling units. This is not a requirement but simply a feeder deduction factor that may be applied to dwelling units only. A sub panel feeding equipment in a garage (detached or not) is, by definition, a service and therefore the deduction factors can be applied. The minimum subpanel feeder circuit breaker size is determined by calculation & the adequacy of the service has to be determined. The feeder cable size (ampacity) has to be greater than or equal to the circuit breaker rating except size doesn't have to be greater than the service entrance cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 The minimum subpanel feeder circuit breaker size is determined by calculation & the adequacy of the service has to be determined. The feeder cable size (ampacity) has to be greater than or equal to the circuit breaker rating except size doesn't have to be greater than the service entrance cables. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. A Merry Christmas to you and yours. Sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Well, just received a quote from a licensed Independent contractor, and it was about 1/5 of what the residential/commercial company quoted. Wow. Guess he'll get the job! $800 for 3 20A circuits, 3 quad outlets and 2 duplex outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Sounds like a great price. Do check his insurance and license though. He can give you a certificate of insurance and a copy of his electrical contractor license. I hope all of that is in order he does a good job. Good luck pard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Final update. Electrician just finished up. I got three 20A circuits, 6 quad outlet boxes and 2 duplex boxes. All installed by a licensed and insured independent contractor for the sum of $945.00! Considering that is four more quads and two more outlets total than originally quoted at around $4400.00 I think I got a pretty good deal. Just ordered some 4' LED lights and then I can finally start putting the shop back together. Thanks for the input, humor and advice folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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