Shooting a Colt RichardsFirst Model

[long tall texan]

I have a pair of First Model Richards conversions done by Kenny Howell on Second Generation Colt 1860s, and I like to use them occasionally. Here's the problem. When I shoot them with any kind of full load (like just a case full of FFg black powder) if the chamber under the hammer is empty, the first shot blows open the loading gate, and if I do not take the time to close it, then subsequent shots blow the primer out into my cheek. I didn't discover this until competition, because I load the cylinder with six at the range.

 

I have analyzed the problem, and here's the deal: The first model conversion ring has a lip that fits right up against the rear of the cylinder, and the .44 Colt rims seal against the ratchet on the inside and the conversion ring lip on the outside, so.....blowby between the (tight gap!) barrel and the cylinder deflects off the empty chamber wall to the right of the first shot and blows back down the chamber, where it is trapped, and the only thing that can give is the loading gate, so it opens. The amount of opening depends on the power of the load, but if it opens enough to free the primer in following shots, the primer gets blown out.

 

So here's my question: Can I use a red-painted dummy round instead of an empty chamber? The problem doesn't exist then.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I have a pair of First Model Richards conversions done by Kenny Howell on Second Generation Colt 1860s, and I like to use them occasionally. Here's the problem. When I shoot them with any kind of full load (like just a case full of FFg black powder) if the chamber under the hammer is empty, the first shot blows open the loading gate, and if I do not take the time to close it, then subsequent shots blow the primer out into my cheek. I didn't discover this until competition, because I load the cylinder with six at the range.

 

I have analyzed the problem, and here's the deal: The first model conversion ring has a lip that fits right up against the rear of the cylinder, and the .44 Colt rims seal against the ratchet on the inside and the conversion ring lip on the outside, so.....blowby between the (tight gap!) barrel and the cylinder deflects off the empty chamber wall to the right of the first shot and blows back down the chamber, where it is trapped, and the only thing that can give is the loading gate, so it opens. The amount of opening depends on the power of the load, but if it opens enough to free the primer in following shots, the primer gets blown out.

 

So here's my question: Can I use a red-painted dummy round instead of an empty chamber? The problem doesn't exist then.

 

I had a similar question many years ago regarding using a snap cap in an R&D conversion cylinder to keep from damaging the firing pin bushing if the "empty" chamber happened to be 'dry fired' in event of a sliphammer.

I was informed (at the time) that "hammer down on empty chamber" means absolutely NO allowance for a dummy/blank/snapcap under the hammer.

I'm not sure of how to 'fix' the problem you're having. This is the first I've heard of such an issue.

Perhaps a stronger spring on the loading gate??

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

What you are saying makes no sense. First, what you are describing is not blow-by. Blow-by is where your load is light and the case doesn't seal the breech so gas blows by the case. You say you have a tight cylinder gap. If that is the case then you should have very little gas going out the side of the barrel and very little would be available to go down the empty chamber. Are the chambers lining up with the barrel properly? If so, then your gate spring might be to weak. I have shot lots of conversions and have never seen or had this happen. Putting in an empty dummy shell sounds like a band aid approach. You need to find out why the gate is opening as this is not normal.

[long tall texan]

What you are saying makes no sense. First, what you are describing is not blow-by. Blow-by is where your load is light and the case doesn't seal the breech so gas blows by the case. You say you have a tight cylinder gap. If that is the case then you should have very little gas going out the side of the barrel and very little would be available to go down the empty chamber. Are the chambers lining up with the barrel properly? If so, then your gate spring might be to weak. I have shot lots of conversions and have never seen or had this happen. Putting in an empty dummy shell sounds like a band aid approach. You need to find out why the gate is opening as this is not normal.

 

 

Okay, maybe it's not called blowby. The proof of my analysis is that, with the loading gate open, enough force comes down the chamber to blow the primers out of the empty cases. As for other conversions, no others were made that had a lip out to the cylinder, in essence, a completely sealed breech surround. However, it's all academic as, according to Pale Wolf, empty means empty and nothing else.

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

No disrespect but if you are blowing primers out of the case with a full case of black powder you are having more than a problem with a weak loading gate spring. Adios Sgt. Jake

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

The ring on the 1st Model Richards has nothing to do with sealing the breech. If you are blowing out primers on a chamber adjacent to the one being fired please have someone inspect the gun before you get hurt.

[Wild Ben Raymond, SASS 23108,]

Long Tall Texan, while I don't shoot my original 1st model 60' Army Richards Conversion in SASS competitions, I will agree with the loading gate opening apon firing the first shot when starting out with hammer down on an empty chamber. It won't happen if I load 6 or leave a empty in that chamber. FYI, I have no issues with primmers falling out though. WBR

[Wrangler Jones, SASS # 64178]

Sounds like a feature rather than a bug - your empty brass gets decapped on the firing line, saving you a step during reloading!

[long tall texan]

The ring on the 1st Model Richards has nothing to do with sealing the breech. If you are blowing out primers on a chamber adjacent to the one being fired please have someone inspect the gun before you get hurt.

 

What I'm trying to tell you is that the area behind the chamber to the right of the firing pin has no place for the pressure to go, except to blow the gate open. If you could see it, you would understand And the primers only blow out if the gate remains open as I shoot the rest of the shots.