Belt Mountain Base Pin Installation

[Smithy]

When my SASS career came to an end (health reasons), I could still manage to get to a shooting lane at the indoor range. No black powder of course, so I chose 44 magnum smokeless handguns and picked up a few. All Rugers, two double action and two single action all in 44 magnum. I had done some previous custom modifications to Old Armies mainly where I utilized Belt Mountain base or cylinder pins. Well made, takes up the slop and most look pretty darn cool.

 

I've always had a fancy for the Elmer Keith #5 type of base pin and Belt Mountain listed the same size for my (pardon my use of the term) old model Vaquero and my Bisley Super Blackhawk. The model of pins I purchased both have a substantial lock down screw. My purchase came with an installation kit. A two piece split ring with drill guide hole and a sleeved drill bit (controlling depth) that fit the guide hole.

 

After reading the very brief instructions, I got even more confused than at the start. Pull the cylinder and pin. Make sure the cylinder rotates on the new pin. Put the new pin in as far as it will go and crank down on the lock screw. I guess that this is to put a mark on the barrel? Then the ring halves are clamped around the barrel and drill away.

 

My concerns is that the protruding portion of the drill bit through the guide ring seems to be rather deep as in barrel porting in a really bad location? Is the guide ring spaced enough to butt it up into the receiver and drill? A no muss no fuss simple way to go. Or does one just line it up (eyeball it) to the screw mark previously ground into the barrel? These questions were not exactly answered in the Belt Mountain instructions. It was as though Belt Mountain has two similar models of lock pins. One that just applies pressure to the barrel, and one that sinks the protruding point of the lock screw into a hole drilled into the barrel of the gun. Am I right, or just getting myself confused?

 

Anyone that has ever messed with this pin or seen or heard it done that can offer some guidance or advice, would be greatly appreciated. Even though it only cost me 130 for two pins and the installation kit, I don't want to start punching holes into the bore or put the hole in the wrong spot. Also the Vaquero has a round barrel mating with a round ID guide ring (makes sense). But what about the Bisley Hunter which has a ribbed section on the top of the barrel? (square peg in a round hole kind of thing).

 

Also, I purchased their new invention super duper base pin latch assembly. I think it sticks out a little further for easy activation and has a stronger spring to help secure the base pin. Their stainless version is actually cro-moly with a nickel plate. It would easily match a gloss stainless Ruger, but not the satin ones I have. So those two Belt Mountain base pin latch assemblies are basically free to the first emailed "I want them Kevin" A ten spot will get me padded envelope and shipping to your lower 48 address.

 

Here are links to My pins and the pin latch assemblies for you to take a gander. http://www.beltmountain.com/ruger.htm Scroll down to #5 Style with Bowen Lock Screw. And the other is on the same page just scroll down to the bottom to find RETURNING SOON! REDESIGNED Ruger Base Pin Latches. Anyway, help if you can or at least pick up a shipping only purchase of Belt Mountains new goodies.

 

Sincerely,

Kevin D. Williams aka Gunn Smithy #87902

5kw@sbcglobal.net

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Have you checked The Belt Mountain web page? He has a page with a bunch of photos showing you how to do it.

 

You can also call them up, the owner is a very nice guy and I'm sure he will walk you through it.

 

Having said that, I have installed Belt Mountain pins in a Black Hawk, three Vaqueros and two Colts. I do not like the pins that have a locking screw. In my experience, if you torque the screw just a little bit too far, it puts enough pressure on the pin that it bends slightly. Just enough to bind the cylinder.

 

I also feel there is no need for the Belt Mountain pins unless you are experiencing problems with the pin backing out from heavy recoil. If your pins are not backing out, leave well enough alone. If you want the #5 style pin, use the one without the locking feature, it is available with or without the locking feature. Not using the locking feature also means you don't need to keep a tool with you if you are at the range and want to remove your cylinder.

 

I only put Belt Mountain pins in revolvers that have a problem with the pin backing out under heavy recoil. Otherwise I leave well enough alone. 99% of the time, the REAL PROBLEM is the latching mechanism is not adjusted properly. Ruger is mass producing guns, and many, many guns come off the production line with the latch not engaging the groove in the pin properly. Usually it is not a problem until heavy recoiling loads are shot.

 

You can put a heavier spring in the latch, but that is only addressing the symptoms, it is not addressing the core problem, a latch that does not fit properly. A properly fitting latch should snap home smartly and completely engage the groove in the pin. If the latch does not engage the groove in the pin properly, heavy recoil can wedge it open. Most of the time, I have solved the problem by either installing a Belt Mountain pin, or installing a Belt Mountain pin AND fitting the groove in the pin better. The good thing about the Belt Mountain pins is the locking groove is cut straight across the pin. Many Rugers have a groove that goes around the pin. The groove cut straight across the pin provides more contact surface for the latch to engage than does the groove cut around the pin. The downside of the Belt Mountain pins is you have to align it properly when pushing it in place or it will bind and get stuck against the barrel. You have to be careful the cut out in the ring is lined up properly with the barrel.

 

Getting back to fitting the pin to the latch. If the latch snaps smartly all the way home, you are all set. It should snap smartly just as far without the pin present as it does with the pin present. You can test this with the pin in and out of the gun. Just pull the latch and let go, see where it ends up. If the latch does not snap smartly all the way home with the pin in place, rub some ink from a Sharpie onto the groove. Snap the latch and see where the ink has been rubbed off. That is where the pin is interfering with the latch and preventing the latch from snapping all the way home. Remove a tiny bit of metal from the spot where the ink was rubbed off with a small jewelers rat tail file. Just a tiny bit. Re ink and re snap. There will be a new spot where the ink rubs off. Repeat with the jewelers file. Do this until the latch snaps smartly all the way home with the pin in place. Only remove a tiny bit of metal each time. Total time spent, about 1/2 hour. Your pin is now properly fit to your latch and should hold with the heaviest recoiling loads.

 

I see Belt Mountain has added custom latches for Rugers to their product line, because of the poor fitting with standard latches. I do not know if they simply have stronger springs, or if the latch mechanism fits better. Worth a phone call.

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

I dont know where I read it I think the Ruger Forum but I remember reading that Ruger put some play in the pin on purpose dont know whether that is true/correct or not but just something to think about.

 

 

Good Luck AO

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I dont know where I read it I think the Ruger Forum but I remember reading that Ruger put some play in the pin on purpose dont know whether that is true/correct or not but just something to think about.

 

 

Good Luck AO

 

'Play' or looseness between the pin and the latch is one thing. My experience is the opposite. Not enough of a gap to allow the latch to pop all the way home. I suspect this is simply the result of a tolerance stack up.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

The screw in the #5 pin is not a set screw but just protrudes into a hole in the bottom of the barrel to not allow it to jump forward. Like you Driftwood, I have had the set screws put enough tension to bind the cylinder on the standard type Belt Mountain basepin. That is one reason I like the #5 style pin, other than its looks. You drill just enough of a hole in the barrel for the tip to slip in and it keeps the base pin from jumping.

Boggus Deal

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

You drill just enough of a hole in the barrel for the tip to slip in and it keeps the base pin from jumping.

Boggus Deal

 

Or, as I have explained, you could fit the pin to the latch so the latch does its job of holding the pin in place without needing a screw. So far, I have 6 Belt Mountain pins in 6 single action revolvers. None of them uses a screw to keep the pin in place. They all stay put with my heaviest recoiling 45 Colt Black Powder loads.

 

Just bought an old Ruger Flat Top 44 Mag Blackhawk. I have mostly put 44 special rounds through it, only a few 44 Mags. It will be interesting to see if the pin stays put with some more 44 Mags, or if it needs some fitting.

[Bart Solo]

I have Belt Mountain locking pins. I was worried about about binding so I took the screws out of them. They work fine.

[Old Scatterbrain]

Driftwood Johnson,

 

I have an "old" Vaquero which would pop the basepin on nearly every shot, even with mild loads. One can actually see that the latch pin hole is drilled slightly forward of where it should be. I asked on another forum about fixing it the way you describe, and was called an idiot. I eventually put a stronger spring in it, but it has always bugged me to know that it isn't right. I think I'm going to dig it out and do it correctly.

 

Since the original pin is "notched" all the way around, how do you suggest I do this? I thought maybe I could chuck it into a cordless drill? I imagine 3 to 5 thousandths will fix the problem.

[Smithy]

The screw in the #5 pin is not a set screw but just protrudes into a hole in the bottom of the barrel to not allow it to jump forward. Like you Driftwood, I have had the set screws put enough tension to bind the cylinder on the standard type Belt Mountain basepin. That is one reason I like the #5 style pin, other than its looks. You drill just enough of a hole in the barrel for the tip to slip in and it keeps the base pin from jumping.

Boggus Deal

 

Thanks Boggus, I was wondering what the difference between the two #5 pins Belt Mountain showed side by side and both with screws in them and not mention of equal installation kits? It all makes sense to me now. The one's I did not buy are the "set screw" model that can make the pin bind. The pins I purchased (with installation kit) pokes a hole into the barrel, not for a longer screw to do the same binding but to simply reside in to prevent the base pin from forward movement and cannot bind on the base pin since the screw doesn't bottom out on the bottom of the drilled hole. Do I have that correct? It sure looks that way as the front of the screw has been turned smooth (not necessary if it were a "set screw").

 

I feel much better about the installation now and will proceed onward. How did you mark, or place the drill jig for correct location of the soon to be drilled hole? Do you seat the base pin and use the screw to etch a round where the hole needs to be? Or; Did you install the jig first centered to something and butted up with the receiver? That's the one thing that I'm still a bit shaky on. Smithy.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Driftwood Johnson,

 

I have an "old" Vaquero which would pop the basepin on nearly every shot, even with mild loads. One can actually see that the latch pin hole is drilled slightly forward of where it should be. I asked on another forum about fixing it the way you describe, and was called an idiot. I eventually put a stronger spring in it, but it has always bugged me to know that it isn't right. I think I'm going to dig it out and do it correctly.

 

Since the original pin is "notched" all the way around, how do you suggest I do this? I thought maybe I could chuck it into a cordless drill? I imagine 3 to 5 thousandths will fix the problem.

 

Old Scatterbrain:

 

The method I described actually works best for a pin that has the groove cut straight across the pin, not a groove around the pin like you are talking about. Also, my method works for a latch that is not totally engaging the groove in the pin. If your latch is popping smartly all the way home with the pin in place, enlarging the groove will not help anything, may in fact make things worse. If your latch is hanging up when the pin is in place, enlarging the groove may help, but you have to be very careful where you remove the metal. My ink method may help you determine that, but frankly, chucking the pin into a drill and spinning it while going after it with a file is a pretty uncontrolled method of doing so. I would be very careful how much metal I removed and exactly where on the groove I removed it.

 

If the latch on your revolver is badly out of position you might consider returning it to Ruger. I doubt if they can repair it, but if it is out of spec they may replace the gun. Might be worth a phone call.

 

Other than that, if it wuz me, I think I would get a Belt Mountain pin and adjust the groove to fit the latch. The groove cut straight across the pin really is a better design than the groove around the pin. There is more contact surface for the latch to engage with a groove cut across the pin.