Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L

"Some Observations On The Failure Of U.S. Model 1903 Rifle Receivers" From: https://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/

Fixed it.

In the mountains above Palm Springs there is a spring next to the highway. In the thirties (CCC) a pipe was installed into the spring on the side of the mountain along with stonework that directed the water flow through the pipe. Locals would take jugs to the spring and fill them up. We would fill up some containers when we were in the area. The water tasted very good and I never heard of anyone getting ill from it. I never saw this spring not running even during the driest times.

Sent you a PM.

Someone has to do it!

The Uberti 30" 1873 musket was made in 45 and 44-40. Supposedly about six were imported to the US. In 2012, we were able to account for five in SASS. Three 44-40's and two 45's. Mine is one of the 44-40's. The Winchester musket was only in 44-40.

I asked where the company was located and received the reply "pho-nix".

I remembered right as Custer and I got out to the mailbox!

Hmm. Wonder what ca will do about all of the guns purchased in ca by former residents? They will waste a lot of time and money sorting that out.

We would also make them but we would put a firecracker in the middle, light and throw!

Getting forgetful?

On a related note, is American Derringer still around? Their website is dated 2011. The street view of the address (below) looks pretty run down though there is a sign in the shape of a derringer outside. I'm curious as I have an American Derringer that I bought in 1999 in 45 Colt that is way off POA at derringer distance.

True. Older M/C's had spring mounted seats and balloon tires to absorb the shock. The ones above have the seat mounted directly to the frame so the shock that is not absorbed by the rear tire goes straight to your back! Even though my '46 Indian has "spring shocks" in the rear, the rear tire will still leave the pavement on uneven roads. Think a segmented concrete freeway. That could be painful without the spring mounted seat.

When I was 5 or 6, we visited my aunt and uncle in Albuquerque. It was so hot that my uncle filled his aluminum (<correct spelling) boat with water and I used it like a kiddie pool!

Nope. Emergency FUEL!

Lucky it was just gas!

On the subject of knives as gifts - I've told this here before. A WWII veteran that I used to shoot with and also work at the range with gave me his Navy fighting knife as we had discussed my bayonet collection previously. I was honored to be given such a personal momento. I also shot and worked with his son and knew that there were other siblings and grandchildren in the family including a grand daughter in the Marines. As I did not want to accept a family treasure, I asked the son about whether anyone in the family should receive the knife and he replied that no one wanted it! And on top of this, he also gave me his other son's bayonet from Vietnam! This son had passed away previously.

This?

From my files - 2001. THE PRE-RELEASE OF THE ADI M1887 AT CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000 A Report by Virgil Earp SASS 4299 By now, the "grapevine" has discovered the best-kept secret of recent times in Western Action Match: the ADI M1887 LEVER-ACTION SHOTGUN. The Pre-Release of this firearm on 29th September at CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000, the SASS Australian Regional 2000 and Eighth Australian National Championships, is most welcome news for SASS shootists everywhere and is worth detailing before the "grapevine" runs riot in frustration for further information!! Despite the effects of the Sydney Olympics, CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000 proved a great success. This year, the major sponsor was recently-privatized ADI Limited, Australia's largest defence contractor. ADI Limited had before provided sponsorship to CHISHOLM TRAIL via their propellant division, but this time at the opening ceremony, a carefully-covered table and two lines of "Mexican peons" standing nearby were portents of much more. After a short speech from an ADI executive, the "lifting of the veil" provoked a collective "heaving sigh" from the gathering: the ADI M1887 LEVER-ACTION SHOTGUN naked in public for the first time! The ADI M1887 originated from an initiative of Brisbane-based company AUSTRALIAN INTERNATIONAL ARMS. The project was conceived independently by AIA in 1996 and gestation was engineered in the same secrecy as an ADI defence product. While it was completed without any relationship or reference to other recent efforts to reproduce the Winchester 1887, TRISTAR Ltd, one of the other enterprises who had attempted to re-create the 1887, has been appointed USA Importer. TRISTAR only learnt of the ADI M1887 this year long after discontinuing their own efforts. AIA, who are responsible for overall project-management, contracted with ADI Limited Lithgow Facility for development and manufacture. ADI Lithgow Facility is perhaps better known to USA firearms enthusiasts as the SMALL ARMS FACTORY, LITHGOW and for its superior SMLE No 1 Mk III* and L1A1 rifles. ADI Lithgow currently produces the F88 (Steyr AUG) and F89 (FN M249) for Australian and other defence forces. Being made at a factory with such "state-of-the-art" technology, the ADI M1887 represents a welcome "quantum leap" in build quality compared to most of the usual offerings inflicted on Western Action shootists. Now here is a reference Western Action product that allows shootists to request better "out-of-the-box" efforts from other manufacturers without the usual specialist rebuild before competitive use. For this reason alone, shootists can only but welcome the ADI M1887. As a purely Australian product, it was appropriate to announce the ADI M1887 at CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000. There was no fanfare or hype. Clad in serapes, sombreros, and sandals, the Mexicans of the ADI/AIA launch team took over the Sheriff's Office, raised the Mexican flag, and the ADI M1887 was allowed to speak for itself with a display of various prototypes and production examples. And later, "speak for itself" it did! Two queues were 20 deep at a special user trial where CHISHOLM TRAIL participants were allowed to try the ADI M1887 for themselves. After hundreds of rounds with the two firearms hot and dirty, the only "hiccups" were shooter-induced due to unfamiliarity with the long stroke of the mechanism. ADI/AIA had such confidence in their product that they were prepared to allow it to be subjected to such abuse at its launch. Later, one of the guns was used as part of the competition to decide the SASS Australian Regional Champion for 2000. The eventual winner, "The Dane", was presented with his prize: a presentation-grade ADI M1887. This exquisite custom-blued gun with stunning fancy American walnut furniture and serial-numbered WAA00001 (WAA = Western Action Australia) is the very FIRST production ADI M1887 to be released by the factory. To commemorate the announcement of the ADI M1887, Australian SASS Members were given the unique opportunity of being first to acquire their own ADI M1887 by way of a factory-direct Subscription Offer with strictly one unit per applicant. The receivers of this Pre-Release edition are engraved "CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000" with a special serial number range continuing on from the First Prize won by "The Dane": WAA00002 to WAA00xyz with the offer closing on 3rd November. The price of the special Australian SASS Subscriber issue guns is A$1499 (around US$800) in standard configuration. Besides placing orders for standard Subscriber-issue guns, many customers were also taking advantage of individually-customizing their pieces. Factory-customizing options of Grade 1 Walnut and custom-bluing will be also available on general production units. Final recommended prices for general production units in various markets have not yet been fixed. For the future records of "history buffs", the individual units of the ADI M1887 sighted at CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000 were as below: Prototype Serial Number XP0001 (Presentation grade; display only) Prototype Serial Number XP0002 (Demonstration sample) Prototype Serial Number XP0003 (Demonstration sample) Prototype Serial Number XP0004 (Display barreled receiver "in white") Special WAA Production Serial Number WAA00001 (Prize gun; display only) Standard Production Serial Number M87000005 (Demonstration sample) The first two numbers of ADI Serial Numbers traditionally denote the year of manufacture so it can be assumed that all the above were made during year 2000. XP prefixes are standard ADI Lithgow nomenclature for experimental prototypes. Overheard was the comment that all the prototypes present were made as one batch for pre-production purposes and ONLY one tool-room prototype prior to these was actually made to "prove up" the design. None of the prototypes had the chrome-lined barrels of the production samples. That's enough of my "jawin" and I have attached, with the kind consent of AUSTRALIAN INTERNATIONAL ARMS, the text from the CHISHOLM TRAIL 2000 Pre-Release Brochure together with the current specification of the standard production version of the ADI M1887. AIA stressed that general sales in all markets are NOT scheduled until the first quarter of 2001 according to the following: ADI M1887 STANDARD VERSION RELEASE DATES USA: January, 2001 AUSTRALIA: March, 2001 NEW ZEALAND: March, 2001 OTHER MARKETS: Upon negotiation with distributors to be appointed. Shootists are further advised to contact their respective distributor or importer (see attached product specification) for further details and enquiries. Individual purchasing enquiries made direct to either ADI Limited or AUSTRALIAN INTERNATIONAL ARMS will simply be referred to the relevant distributor or importer for response. In short, unless you happen to be (or about to become!) an Australian SASS member, you will have remain patient until early next year!! Virgil Earp SASS # 4299 earp@internetworth.com.au 9th October, 2000 ***************************************************** Excerpt from brochure THE ADI LIMITED M1887 LEVER-ACTION 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN THE PAST .... MADE PERFECT! From Winchester Model 1887 to ADI Ltd M1887 --- A Genesis! Once Upon a Time in the West, John Moses Browning designed a gun and then, like many of his designs, put it aside to pursue another idea from his hugely fertile brain. When T.G. Bennett of Winchester visited him to purchase the design rights to the 1885 rifle, he asked Browning whether he had any repeating shotgun designs. Browning showed him the very embryonic ideas for what later became the famous Model 97 pump-action shotgun. "No", said Bennett, "we are a lever-action company. Do you have any lever-action designs?" Browning went into his workshop and came back with a completed lever-action shotgun prototype. "But I tell you now that the pump-action is the future", said Browning, who had lost interest in continuing with what he thought would become a "dead-end". Bennett took the prototype back to New Haven and put it into production. The Model 1887 was made for blackpowder shells in 10 Gauge and 12 Gauge. As an incomplete design, it was subject to product-improvement during its life. Double extractors, modified magazine band, and two-screw forearm were added. A total of 64,855 Model 1887 shotguns were made between 1887 and 1901 when it was replaced by its penultimate variation, the Model 1901. Browning was proved right. Eventually, Bennett acquired the rights to Browning's pump-action design and hastily rushed it into production as the Model 1893 to compete with the contemporary Burgess and Spencer pump-action shotguns. Again the Model 1893 needed product-improvement, especially to allow the design to cope with smokeless powder loads. The legendary Model 1897/97 was the result and over 1,024,700 of all variations were sold by the time manufacture was discontinued in 1957. The overwhelming popularity of the Model 1893 and later Model 1897/97 sounded the "death-knell" for the blackpowder-only Model 1887. Further product-improvements were instituted to strengthen the action and eliminate the final design deficiency: the Model 1887 had a spring-loaded two-piece firing pin that was prone to sticking, especially when fouled by black powder residue. Dangerous "slam-fires" could result. Winchester decided to reissue the finally-perfected design only in 10 Gauge so as not to directly compete with the Model 1897/97. This was the Model 1901, strengthened for smokeless powder loads but especially incorporating a positive mechanical firing pin retractor, trigger block, and two-piece lever with hesitation lock. It became one of the least successful of Winchester's products with only a total of 13,500 being made. Actual manufacture was suspended in 1912 and guns sold were drawn from existing inventory until the Model 1901 was finally dropped from the Winchester product range in 1920. One source relates that, at that time, almost half the production still remained in store, and these were sold as a bulk shipment to an arms dealer who disposed of them into the ferment of post-revolution Mexico. The Model 1901, and yet even more so its special design features, disappeared into obscurity. The rapid rise of Western Action Match as a shooting sport led far-sighted individuals to attempt to reincarnate the Model 1887, together with all its design deficiencies. Until now, all have failed due to a combination of the inherent faults of the Model 1887 design and the lack of reverse-engineering expertise. It is one thing to manufacture a toggle-lock Model 1873 or hammer-double but understanding the complex and intricate dynamic mechanical timing of John Browning's genius incorporated in the Model 1887/1901 is entirely another thing. Independently, and without knowledge of the other attempts, Australian International Arms in 1996 commenced a research and development study of the Model 1887/1901. Early in this program, the R&D department identified the Model 1901 as the solution to the modern manufacture of the Model 1887/1901. One very attractive facet of the Model 1901 was that it had been designed for 2 7/8" 10 Gauge smokeless powder shells as opposed to the Model 1887 being designed for 2 1/2" 12 Gauge and 2 5/8" 10 Gauge blackpowder shells. Such was the intricacy of Browning's mechanism, it became apparent to manufacture a modern M1887 firing 2 3/4" shells, it would be easier to scale-down the Model 1901 to 12 Gauge rather than trying to change all the working mechanism of the Model 1887. The next step to production was to find a world-class arms manufacturer who could properly reverse-engineer the Model 1901 in 12 Gauge. Ideally, the same arms manufacturer would be independent of the commercial industry and also have excess capacity to allow production. The choice of ADI Limited Lithgow Facility (the former Small Arms Factory, Lithgow of great renown) not only eminently satisfied all the above criteria but the factory was also based in Australia and generated a feeling of considerable pride in being able to retain the project "on-shore". An amicable agreement was reached between ADI Lithgow and Australian International Arms and the "adventure" to produce Australia's first new civilian-market gun for many years commenced in earnest. Soon after metrology and preliminary drawing started, Australian International Arms learnt of the other attempts to re-manufacture the Model 1887. Work continued in the utmost secrecy while competitors' developments were monitored closely. One by one, they fell by the wayside --- thwarted by a combination of choice of the Model 1887 as the basis for reverse-engineering and lack of specialist expertise in the low-cost facilities chosen. ADI Lithgow not only successfully completed reverse-engineering but perfected a stringent manufacturing regime allowing GENUINE complete interchangeability of components as is necessary as a requirement in the manufacture of modern military small arms. Old Winchester "hands" tell of the painstaking manual assembly of the Model 12 and Model 97 by "file and fit" and the Model 1887/1901 possesses even more critical mechanical timing! The ultimate tribute must be paid to the technical staff of ADI Lithgow who not only created a viable M1887 design but achieved what most other past and present manufacturers of purely manually-operated mechanisms rarely achieve --- the all important interchangeability so important to modern manufacturing efficiency. ADI Lithgow staff achieved ALL objectives despite not having worked on such a mechanism for over forty years! Modern gas-operated mechanisms are considerably simpler. THE PAST MADE PERFECT!! Specifications: M1887 LEVER-ACTION SHOTGUN STANDARD PRODUCTION MODEL +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | CALIBRE | 2 3/4" 12 Gauge only with specific design | | | dimensions precluding use of 3" shells. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | METAL FINISH | Traditional blued finish. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | STOCK | American Walnut with oil finish. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | FOREARM | American Walnut with oil finish. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | BUTTPLATE | Replica of original Winchester Model 1887 steel | | | buttplate. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | BARREL | 22 inch (559 mm) with extended forcing cone, | | | Improved Cylinder choke, and hard-chrome lined | | | internally including chamber. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | MAGAZINE | Five shell capacity. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | SAFETY | Standard exposed hammer half-cock, mechanical | | | firing pin retractor, and lever hesitation lock | | | with two-piece lever. | +--------------+---------------------------------------------------| | DIMENSIONS | Overall Length | 40.50 Inches | 1029 mm | | +------------------+------------------+-------------| | | Stock | 12.75 Inches | 324 mm | | +------------------+------------------+-------------| | | Receiver | 5.75 Inches | 146 mm | | +------------------+------------------+-------------| | | Barrel | 22.00 Inches | 559 mm | | +------------------+------------------+-------------| | | Weight | 8.75 Pounds | 3.97 Kg | | | | unloaded | unloaded | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ M1887 PROJECT MANAGEMENT M1887 PROJECT MANUFACTURER +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Australian International Arms | ADI Limited Lithgow Facility | | PO Box 526, Ashgrove, Brisbane | Methven Street, Lithgow | | Queensland, Australia 4060 | New South Wales, Australia 2790 | | TEL: +61 7 33665172 | TEL: +61 2 63529808 | | FAX: +61 7 33665172 | FAX: +61 2 63513970 | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ APPOINTED NATIONAL DISTRIBUTORS AND IMPORTERS +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | NEW ZEALAND | AUSTRALIA | USA | | J.P.B. Furley & Co. | Acacia Imports | Tristar Ltd | | PO Box 25 849 | Box 6148 | PO Box 7496 | | St. Heliers | Delivery Centre | North Kansas City | | Auckland | Acacia Ridge Q4110 | Missouri 64116 | | TEL: 09 5750471 | TEL: 07 33443774 | TEL: 816 4211400 | | FAX: 09 5750472 | FAX: 07 33445604 | FAX: 816 4214182 | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ Just got home from Walmart. Where I was looking at the guns and ammo new guns for the up coming year and in the cowboy guns part of it they said Tri star is coming out with there 1887 Lever gun in 2001. So after I got home I punched up Internet GUN catalog and looked for Tri-star and found it. Item # 11326 TRI M1887 12GA LEVER 30 FULL price a cool $646.72. They have a picture of it and a full desription at http:www.internetguncatalog.com/details.asp?ItemNum=11326 3/26/02 Only place I can find the ’87 on the ADI website and it is only a picture (Light Calibre Weapons): http://www.adi-limited.com/2-01-010-010-020.html Commercial Weapons ADI is capable of developing, re-engineering and manufacturing a variety of weapons for the domestic and nostalgia markets. Contact Details Matthew Munn Sales Manager - Light Engineering ADI Limited Tel: +61 2 6352 9808, Fax: +61 2 6351 3970, Email: matthew.munn@adi-limited.com 6/26/02 (New contact, copied from ADI site) Contact Details Trevor Pearce Sales Coordinator - Light Engineering ADI Limited Tel: +61 2 6352 9850, Fax: +61 2 6351 3970, Email: trevor.pearce@adi-limited.com

Wow! Regarding PWB's story - When my daughter was eight, we were camping in Death Valley a little before Christmas. Santa Claus left her an early Christmas present while we were there. It was a Swiss Army camping knife. She was thrilled but didn't know how Santa was able to find her way out there.

Did he run over a smaller one?

https://barbequegrills.com/grills/the-x-grill/