Creeker, SASS #43022

The day we are observing is to remember those who have fallen. But I look at it as more than that - it is also to remember WHY they fell (without getting cynical; at least the WHY they were told) To protect their country from encroachment. To defend their homes and families from harm and evil. To ensure freedom and liberty for themselves and future generations. These men who made the ultimate sacrifice FOR US - did not do it for fame or glory; but because it was the RIGHT thing to do and sadly - doing the right thing is sometimes painful. But it is NOT a day of dour sadness - it is a day to lift up their memories; tell their stories, not of their deaths - but of their lives. Their lives of sunny days with their best girl beside them - acting like fools with their buddies at the lake with sandwiches and a cold drink. This is why we observe/ celebrate as we do - we do these things to honor those who never got to do them again. Those who proudly and bravely gave up their future sunny days and joy - so we could keep ours. Their sacrifices make Memorial Day a happy day - and I will not besmirch their memories by not treating it as such. And I guarantee, if they were still here - they would be the first grabbing the charcoal and hitching up the boat.

I'm with Bull on this. I would absolutely love the opportunity to sit down and talk cowboy. The steakhouse there at Railroad Pass is surprisingly good. Sadly, tomorrow around noon I have to transport a young lady that works for me up to the VA for an extended procedure (supposed to be done around 5-6pm - but medical is medical and I don't know when I would honestly be available). But next time; please let us know and I'll make sure I'm there.

Between his forgetfulness, lack of coordination and projectile diarrhea... I just try to be nice to him. 🤣

Just because I am a pedantic jerk. Bubble Jet ink cartridges on Amazon $74.99 - 4000 page yield. That equates out to $0.018/ page. Those page yield numbers are based on 250 words per page. Meaning every word costs $0.000072 So using the appropriate additional number of words to ensure clarity (be that perhaps 10 or 20) could add anywhere from $0.00072 to an entire $0.00144 to each page of the stage instructions. I think the cost is insignificant to ensure that a shooter that spends thousands of dollars to attend a major match or even the shooter that drops fifteen at their local monthly actually shoots the same match as the shooters on the other posses. So, yes, ink is cheap. 🤪 But, I have a laser printer.

This example came up this weekend. On a posse with Tapatio, Chickamauga Charlie and myself; 60 - 70 years of CAS experience between the three of us and we were debating the intent of "At the ready". And really, it's immaterial what we decided - as our Posse shot the stage based on our interpretation and the other Posse shot it based on theirs. Now multiply that variance in opinion by 12, 24 or 36 different Posses - all with experienced and knowledgeable members. Soon you have a stage that can no longer be fairly compared because of those variables. All because we (stage writers) hurry, encourage brevity over clarity. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus - I've certainly written stages that I wish I could do over as well. But if we all agree to focus a little more on being clear and worry less about how many words we are using - we will have better matches.

Just because no one else wants to play. 😁 I think C is a good choice - I also think a valid case can be made for all the other choices as well. Which is why - a word or two of clarification makes for a world of difference. But, just to clarify the bonus question - "at the ready" for pistols; IF (at the ready) allows rifle shouldered and aimed - you're advocating the same instruction allows pistols in hand, aimed down range? And in the absence of any other instructions or guidance - what do you think the odds of 12 Posse Marshals coming to this same conclusion are? In the absence of clear and complete instructions that actually inform the shooter of the stage expectations - it is near impossible to expect every posse to shoot the same match.

The "Reading Impaired" comment was a direct shot at my buddy, Shooting Bull - not deigned as an insult toward any other. And the ambiguity of stage writers using certain phrases, terms and shorthand was the impetus for this thread in the first place.

Just to assist the reading impaired... Here's a simple one. What does this sentence mean? "Shooter starts with Rifle, at the ready" A. SASS Default? Because no explicit hand, body or posture instruction was provided? B. Hovering over rifle on table? Because it's understood, in the absence of instruction otherwise, that we are not touching gun or ammo? C. Rifle in hands or shouldered and aimed? Because if I'm "at the ready" - Shouldn't I be ready? D. Or something else? And if something else, what exactly? Bonus follow up - if the line is "Shooter starts with pistols, at the ready" Is your above answer the same?

If you can't read - does it really matter how much text exists?

Wow - in 25 plus years of shooting this game; I have never once seen a monthly shoot have a Posse Marshal walk through. I guess your clubs are better organized than any I shoot with; get to the range at 6am for an 8am first shot. And by the time we put up tables, set our steel, complete sign in, get our personal gear situated and do the safety meeting and pledge - we just don't seem to have any extra time for walk through. This lack of time to fix issues with the stages at the range; is all the more reason that stages need to be well written, with complete and clear instructions in the first place.

Nope

It is a semi auto pistol that shoots 357 magnum or 44 magnum (traditionally revolver rounds) or a (compared to a 500 Smith) comparatively weak 50 caliber round. So, I am contrasting an unreliable, clunky, ugly and overpriced limited capacity semi auto platform to the many, many, many better quality and infinitely more reliable revolvers that utilize the same rounds.

Monthly shoots don't have walk throughs. So whomever reads the stage instruction is, by default, the Posse Marshal and in the absence of clarity, "may" put their own interpretation or beliefs into play. While the same thing is occuring on Posse 2 and Posse 3 - creating the potential that three posses shot three completely different matches (ever notice that sometimes a given posse will just be faster on a given stage? Sometimes, that's differing posse shooting differing opportunities) And yeah, it can be said, "it's just a monthly. No big deal." But for some - monthlies are all they get to shoot; they deserve the best experience we can provide. This is why I don't write stages the night or even week before a match - I write them as far in advance as possible; so I can return to them with a critical eye (get my wife to read them, get my daughter to read them) and find my errors, issues or omissions before anyone else does. Make sure they are a complete, consistent and clear roadmap to the actions allowed or expected. And even at a large match WITH Posse Marshal walk throughs and the like - the stage booklet is being provided to ALL your shooters. They should be able to read, understand and PLAN for their stage without a page of clarification by the Posse Marshal. I, for one, take stage booklets and dissect every stage the night before a match - I look at the movements, staging options, firearm orders and round sequence. My pages are covered with various notes, arrows and ideas for attacking the stage - I absolutely detest arriving at the stage and finding out all I did is for naught because the stage writer didn't mean to allow this or didn't think that anyone would consider doing that. In all my years of being a Match Director - I provided the Posse Marshals the stages via email well in advance of the shoot for their exam and input; took their input into consideration to further clarify or modify - at the match, gathered them together in a shaded place and we sat at picnic tables sipping waters and did our final walk through sitting down. The stage diagram drawings actually matched how the steel was setup. The stages were written to convey complete information; not to save ink or words. It embarrassed me; if my stages were unclear, confusing or required my Marshals to clarify my intent to the shooters.

A lot of them never fire - but that's more of a design issue than intentional choice. 🤔

Cowboy stage writing brevity came into widespread use about 10 - 15 years ago. It started out with, "Stop writing stories - no one cares and it takes too long." And while I think the loss of this part of the game has diminished the experience - perhaps there was some credence to the criticism. But then it became, we already have stage conventions; we don't need to direct the shooter to do (or not do) certain things - it's understood. And today we find ourselves taking shortcuts, using shorthand and terms, "At the ready", "In hand(s)" that have zero meaning to a new or casual shooter and are meaningless to anyone outside our game. Online electrons are free and ink is cheap. How about a return to simply telling the shooter what we want them to do? Communication is a two way process that requires not only a conveyance of information; but a corresponding understanding by the recipient. When terms are so ambiguous that a group of experienced shooters cannot agree on their meaning - nothing is gained in brevity and there is an extreme likelihood of inconsistent application posse to posse. Stage writers are not saving any time writing incomplete and unclear stages that must be then explained and walked thru. The average American reads about 200 words a minute. Adding 20 words to the stage description to ensure clarity and CONSISTENCY shooter to shooter and posse to posse only adds SIX seconds to the stage read through; but provides a much better experience to your shooters. Here's a simple one. What does this sentence mean? "Shooter starts with Rifle, at the ready" A. SASS Default? Because no explicit hand, body or posture instruction was provided? B. Hovering over rifle on table? Because it's understood, in the absence of instruction otherwise, that we are not touching gun or ammo? C. Rifle shouldered and aimed? Because if I'm "at the ready" - Shouldn't I be ready? Bonus follow up - if the line is "Shooter starts with pistols, at the ready" Is your above answer the same? We had THREE very experienced, knowledgeable, long term club officers and match directors discussing this very thing - and we did NOT all agree. So you have to wonder what the OTHER posse settled on. But if the stage writer had written out their specific desire for the starting position - added perhaps, 10, 20 words (3-6 seconds of reading) - no questions - no debate. It is time for the pendulum to swing back a little - use your words, fully communicate your intentions and let your shooters know your expectations. It will make for a better, more consistent and ultimately a more enjoyable match. And it might actually make your posses flow faster as there will be less time spent on what ifs and legal wrangling. And if we can avoid all the debate - we might even decide there's opportunity for a story from time to time.

You will absolutely regret it. Piece of garbage gun, that once you get past the novelty is a unreliable, ugly, clunky pistol that fires the same round that can be utilized in many, many, many far better revolvers.

I know what I'm doing. Just somewhere between the brain and the hands - the directions go askew.

1600 rounds? I think that may be the same number of rifle rounds I jacked out in Norco.

The movie takes place in 1885 - not the 1860's. We know this based on the date on Doc's gravestone. Died 1885. Shot in the back by Buford Tannen. Erected by his beloved Clara. 1885 versus 1860's is an eternity in firearms advancements.

Painted Lady and I took a trip down to Norco, California to shoot with The Cowboys. Thanks for the warm welcome. Tapatio and the entire group made sure we had a great day - even if my poor shooting left everyone shaking their heads and questioning how I manage to get dressed in the morning. 🤪 Hopefully we are able to return again soon.

Yup - a dozen or so bottles in the fridge (that vegetable crisper drawer should be used for something and Heaven knows - it ain't gonna be vegetables). Then there are another dozen or so in the freezer - dual purposed for lining the cooler when we travel and having water after they thaw. And a large Brita filter unit sits in the fridge as well - which we keep filled with tap water to fill our insulated water bottles.

I have always said the 1st thing the bad guy should notice about me are the 158grain 357 mag or 230grain 45 acp hollow points (or 12ga. 00 Buck/ 1 oz. Slugs) entering his body. There is no advantage to me to offering any warning or putting the other guy on notice.

I taught firearms safety and Concealed Carry classes for 25 years. I am well aware of the legal requirements and potential pitfalls of firearms carry. But the one thing that I also learned is, not everybody is willing to train to my level or conform to my expectations of equipment choices. And just because they make other choices does not mean they are any less deserving of self defense.

Most civilian shootings take place at arms length - most are completed with fewer than three rounds being fired. So where is the REALISTIC situation where those other options would be superior to a small revolver? Accuracy? At arms length - either will be more than sufficient. So is capacity an issue? If we are discharging 5 or fewer rounds - it is immaterial whether I have 0, 2 or 15 rounds remaining. How about capability? The end result of someone being shot with 2 or 3 rounds of a +p 38 special versus 2 or 3 rounds of 9mm is a wash. And hitting that same bad guy with 2 or 3 rounds of 357mag is superior to most any common semi auto caliber. Reliability? Semi autos have a higher number of potential failure points that result in a firearms stoppage (ammo inconsistency, damaged or defective magazines, more complex moving parts) than revolvers. Now admittedly, quality modern semi autos are the most reliable that they have ever been - but a quality revolver is still more reliable. Lastly - the VAST OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of folks carrying firearms are NOT gun people; they are not going to train - they are not going to practice a manual of arms. They require a simple, reliable firearm - without manual safeties - without Tap, Rack, Bang scenarios. A firearm that can be safely carried in a pocket, a purse with a long heavy trigger pull that precludes most accidental/ negligent discharge. A firearm, that, under stress and duress, only requires them to point and squeeze the trigger. For a fair number - the small, easily concealed, moderate powered, DA only revolver IS perfectly valid and capable choice. And as always, the BEST firearm is the one you have with you.

I have had a number of their firearms transfer thru my shop. Their fit and finish is very decent for the price point. Their feel out of the box is not horrible either. Internally I believe they are a basic 92, meaning that anything tuning or smoothing on Winchester/ Rossi 92's should apply to these as well. They are an alloy receiver - I'm assuming with pressed in steel bosses internally; but I have no idea about their longevity under the stresses of our game. They come with a wrapped, "larger loop" lever - I don't know if a standard sized lever is available. And they come with Hi Viv front sights - I do not know if they use a standard sized dovetail so a legal site may be installed.