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Does Wrangler collapse to Cowboy if not enough entries?


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16 hours ago, mean gun mark said:

If i had 3 sr b western and  1  b western i would collapse it down, you need to fill the base before filling the extras.

So, imagine the following situation:

B-Western senior shooters A and B want to go to a match together. To make sure that their category will be offered a call is made and BW sr shooter C is persuaded to come, too. Feeling confident that they can compete against shooters of the same age, they're told at the match that their category is collapsed down because only one other BW shooter (30 yrs old) registered. The 'youngster' ends up winning BW. He thanks the old-timers for showing up because without them he couldn't post pictures of his buckle on all his social media accounts now... :(

 

It's a whole different situation if there's only one or two participants you collapse down to a younger category because they don't make entrants minimum. But to collapse down a age group that makes entrants minimum seems disputable to me.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

So, imagine the following situation:

B-Western senior shooters A and B want to go to a match together. To make sure that their category will be offered a call is made and BW sr shooter C is persuaded to come, too. Feeling confident that they can compete against shooters of the same age, they're told at the match that their category is collapsed down because only one other BW shooter (30 yrs old) registered. The 'youngster' ends up winning BW. He thanks the old-timers for showing up because without them he couldn't post pictures of his buckle on all his social media accounts now... :(

 

It's a whole different situation if there's only one or two participants you collapse down to a younger category because they don't make entrants minimum. But to collapse down a age group that makes entrants minimum seems disputable to me.

I get it, its not a perfect solution but its the one we have to work with.     I love to shoot in the outlaw category, but many matches dont or wont offer it, so i shoot gunfighter and still shoot outlaw style, when i crack into top 10 at a big match without ever aiming a single pistol its kind of cool.   My own state match coming up next week i cannot have outlaw because there are only 2 of us..    the alternative is for many clubs to seriously downgrade the awards quality so that they can afford to provide an award for virtually everyone… at the end of the day someone goes home with ruffled feathers.    My goal is to make 90% or better of the shooters happy, 90% or better of the time.     You will never actually hit 100%.        With your scenario there would be 4 shooters in b western and 3 would get an award assuming you went 3 deep.  Still not bad.     Some will say big deal you saved the cost of 1 award, well maybe but then you would present 2 first place awards, ( the most expensive size) and another state winner award.      Multiply that a dozen or so times at a match and it adds up…. If your running a match with 300 shooters or more then yes you can spread the cost out. But many state matchs are pulling 150 or less.

Edited by mean gun mark
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2 minutes ago, mean gun mark said:

I love to shoot in the outlaw category, but many matches dont or wont offer it, so i shoot gunfighter and still shoot outlaw style, when i crack into top 10 at a big match without ever aiming a single pistol its kind of cool.   

Come to Illinois State - we offer Outlaw without regard to the number of entries.  I know there'll be at least one other.  Not many over our way.  I know he'd enjoy the Outlaw competition.   But hurry if you want to come - we've 176 entries and have a 180-shooter limit.  PK

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Popcorn your match is on my to do list for sure, i have heard nothing but positive reviews and the river cruise looks like a lot of fun.   I retire my main job the end of the month and am hoping to be able to venture out more next season

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13 hours ago, mean gun mark said:

I get it, its not a perfect solution but its the one we have to work with.

What would be the solution if those 3 seniors wouldn't register and only the young BW shooter is left? Just choose that solution.

 

13 hours ago, mean gun mark said:

I love to shoot in the outlaw category, but many matches dont or wont offer it, so i shoot gunfighter and still shoot outlaw style, when i crack into top 10 at a big match without ever aiming a single pistol its kind of cool.   My own state match coming up next week i cannot have outlaw because there are only 2 of us..

Yes, if less than 3 are in a category, it's a whole other story.

 

13 hours ago, mean gun mark said:

With your scenario there would be 4 shooters in b western and 3 would get an award assuming you went 3 deep.  Still not bad.

With a entrance minimum of 3 I would only get 1 award, 3 awards with 10 minimum. But I am not a match director, so...

 

Once again, many issues here are based on the fact that IMHO there are way too many categories in our game. The other shooting sport I participate is IPSC. At bigger matches there may be over 70 shooters in my category. I usually rank somewhere in the middle and I never am nor I ever will be anywhere close winning anything. But always having fun because I am there for the shooting, not for awards! People are happy when they are pleased with their performance of the day, not because of taking an award home, just my impression.

 

I am aware that 5 years in age can make a lot of difference, but so do other things. 5 year increments in categories really just seem like participation awards to me. Personally, I'd cut a lot of age categories in SASS: Wrangler, Silver Senior, Cattle Baron, and El Rey. There would be still a lot of categories left. For comparison, IPSC knows only Senior (>50) and Super Senior (>60).

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