H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

BTDT? I still don't get where the delay is. You are loading while other people are shooting. You are ready when the previous shooter is done. You walk out to stage your guns. There is the "extra pistol" sure, but I don't see how it adds any additional significant set up time. Especially when you compare it to Josey Wales. That doesn't really take significantly longer either. As far as after the stage is done goes, at many shoots, one of the spotters or someone will usually grab one or both of the shooter's long guns and walk them over to the unloading table. How does an extra pistol add a problem? Once at the unloading table, shooter unloads everything and returns it to cart as normal. I'm sorry if I am confused, Lumpy. I am really trying, and failing, to see what your point is. Are are kinda slow dat way, I guesses.

Covfefe?

How so? Everything is the same except for the third pistol, whatever it is. It just get's set at the proper location when the rifle and shotgun are staged. Can't see how that will add all that much more time. What am I missing?

That was a "concern" I had, which is why I suggested that the third pistol could be either a third pocket, or even a regular main match pistol loaded with two rounds. Of course, since it's unofficial and voluntary, maybe anyone who tries it will be more familiar with these types of pistols?

This is an idea that, admittedly, started as something of joke in my mind. But it is something that just keep kicking around, so I thought I would bring it up more somewhat more seriously. If if goes nowhere, well, there is no loss, but if if it does, that might be fun. Now, we all know, or should know, what "Josey Wales" style shooting is. That's where you substitute more pistols for the rifle, and maybe the shotgun, in a typical 10-10-4 scenario. it's entirely voluntary, unofficial, and requires no special setup to throw off people shooting the stages the regular way. I would like to propose as idea for something similar, that will call, Brady Hawkes style, after the character played by Kenny Rogers in the made for TV Gambler movies. Several ideas have popped around in my head, and after giving it much though, this is what I have finally come up with. For a rifle, any typical Main Match rifle fired at the rifle targets. For the pistols, any two (according the the SASS rules) Pocket Pistols, carried in holsters, with the hammers down on empty chambers. Since many (but not all) of this type of pistol are five shot revolvers with no safety notch, both pistols will be loaded with four rounds each. These rounds will engage pistol targets 1 through 8. Pistol targets 9 and 10 will be engaged with a derringer that is staged at the appropriate location on the firing line. For the shotgun, and single barrel shotgun, any gauge, .410 okay. If using the .410, the targets must be hit, but don't necessarily have to fall. This is the basic idea. I think it could be a lot of fun, and since it is unofficial and voluntary, it could be offered the same way as Josey Wales style is offered by places that decide to give it a try. I suppose there is room to modify some of the gun requirements, but this is just what made the most sense to me. The reason I thought of using a single barrel shotgun was fairly simple. Part of the idea is the concept of using "smaller" guns and a single shot shotgun kinda sorta fits that bill, especially if it's a .410. I considered saying the rifle had to have a 20" barrel or less, but decided against it so as to be as "flexible" as possible and not discourage people from trying it. As to the pistols... Well, there is room for variation. If the pistols can safely be loaded with 5 each, there is no need for the derringer. Or, one of the pistols could be reloaded for shots 9 and 10, or instead of a derringer, a 3rd pocket pistol for shots 9 and 10. Or even any kind of a pistol that is staged where the derringer was. It was just that in the movies, Brady's derringer was the signature gun, so I wanted to include it. Given the unofficial status, it would be up to clubs who offer it to decide what kind of pistols/shotguns are allowed. But of course, safety must be taken into consideration. Will this ever catch on? I have no idea. I just know that if we don't at least talk about it, no one will ever consider offering it. So I am running it up the proverbial flag poll to see if anyone salutes. There'll be time enough for countin' the scores, when the shootin's done!

Is the Trailboss for sale?

I will admit that I know very little about Greener SxS shotguns, other than that John Wayne seemed fond of them in Big Jake. But I also understand that shotguns in that movie were not actually Greeners, they were just called that. Anyway, based on photographs and what they seem to be going for online, they seem to be decent shotguns that can run the gamut from affordable to very expensive. I am just wondering if anybody has an practical shooting experience with them.

It can be most complicated! For example, I have three guns built on the Martini action. 1. Made by WW Greener, 12 Gauge Shotgun 2. Made by Enfield, .303 British 3. Made by Birmingham Small Arms, .310 Cadet. But they are all the same action. Well, the Greener has a safety for some reason. British/Imperial/Commonwealth guns can be extremely confusing when trying to figure out who made a specific make/model of a particular firearm. As near as I have been able to determine, you can only get anything resembling a factory letter for Webley, and even then, only their pistols. When I inquired about a Webley shotgun, I was told that the shotgun records are a chaotic mess. But that does mean they exist. Maybe someday the guy who has them will clean them up. One can only hope.

The best barrel length is 30" with a full choke. I never miss when using such a gun. My favorite shotguns, in order are as follows. All are 12 Gauge unless otherwise noted... Winchester Diamond Trap 97 30" Full Parker Trojan 30" F/F Winchester 97 30" Full Parker Trojan 20 Gauge, 28" F/M Hopkins and Allen sIngle shot, 30" Full Winchester 87. 30" Unsure of Choke, I think it's Full. Webley Model 100 single shot. 32" Full Darne 16 Gauge 26-3/4" M/IC Ithaca Flues 16 Gauge 28" M/F (This would be higher, if it didn't have ejectors.) I do have an 19" Parker, with no chokes, a 20" 97 with no Choke, and a Chiappa 87 with an 18.5" barrel, no choke. These are fun to shoot from time to time as a novelty, but they are not my go to guns. Yes, I am very much in minority, but I firmly believe that longer barrels are better.

I have in my collection, a Remington 58 that left the factory as a cartridge firing gun. It was a factory made conversion, so to speak. Was actually never a cap and ball pistol. Did Colt ever do this? I have heard some people say that they did, specifically with the Model 49 Pocket. After new production had ended, they used up the stockpile of parts to make them into conversions as they sold them. This seems both plausible, and improbable to me at the same time. But I suppose it is *possible* that this was done. Does anyone know?

I have found that, with pistols, having a box makes storage easier. Everything is a perfect square and they can all be stacked in the safe without damaging or scratching the gun.

Ah, it seems there is some misunderstanding here. The box has a serial number on it, but it's not the serial number of my gun. That's how I know it's not the correct box. Well, that and the box has the wrong barrel length printed on it. If it had the right serial number, I would just laugh off the barrel length error as a mistake. So, what I am hoping for is that someone has a 5.5" box and a 7.5" gun that that we can swap. I doubt very much being able to find correct serial numbers.

One of the few types of guns that I don't have in my collection is a hammered SxS. I am considering obtaining one. But I am not sure what exactly to get. Let me offer a few thoughts, and perhaps someone can suggest something. First, for me, the ideal barrel length of a shotgun is 30". Also, I very much loathe screw in chokes, but if they don't stick out the end of the barrel, I suppose I can live with them. Preferred fixed chokes are F/F. I am of the opinion that the finest SxS ever made was the Parker. But, all but a very small handful, less than a dozen if I recall correctly, of external hammered Parkers did not have Damascus barrels. So that rules them out as probably prohibitively expensive. Please keep in mind that while it is very easy to spend many thousands of dollars on a Parker, or something similar, I know for a fact that they can still be had in perfectly fine, shootable condition for under $2000. Maybe even under $1000 if you are patient and look hard enough. So, I am looking for something, new or used, in that price range. I am not interested in some of the "built like a tank" guns that are out there. While extremely well made, I just want something "nicer." American, English, other European, all are acceptable. I just don't know what to look for in a hammered gun. Any suggestions would be welcome. This is a long term idea, as I am in no hurry. Any suggestions?

If nothing else, having boxes for your pistols makes storage easier. Especially if you have a lot of them. I just wish there were some affordable pistol cases on the market that could double as a carry case. But most of the things out there are very expensive. (I want wood, not plastic!)

Yes, it does. But I forgot to jot it down before leaving for work today.

I have an interesting "conundrum." I have a very nice USFA China Camp model revolver, with an original box. But it's not THE original box. Among other things, the box says the pistol that came in it was a 7.5" in barreled one, and mine is a 5.5" thing. Long story short, if anybody out there owns a USFA revolver with a box that says 5.5" but your gun is a 7.5" one, I'd be interested in trading with you.

Stupid.

Or you can try .38 Short Colt.

Then how can they offer .45 ACP cylinders?

Just to clarify, I am talking about the Lightning rifle. Also, specifically replicas thereof since .38 Special was not a chambering in the original Colts. Interesting to hear that Cowboy .45 Special will run in a .45 Colt one.

This is something I have always "known," I guess, but somehow it just became more obvious to me this evening. When you look at Colt revolvers of the cartridge era from the 1870s to the 1890's, you are immediately aware that every model is different. Both single and double action guns of that era (not including anything with a swing out cylinder) are all unique. A couple of specific models have some similarities, but it is fair to say that the various Colt revolvers were very different from one another. On the other hand, Smith & Wesson top breaks, are all very similar. Almost to the point where the entire line from the 1-1/2 to the New Model 3 are all just variations on the same theme. The only real differences are size, and some superficial differences like spur or "regular" trigger. Even the single and double actions of the period are basically all variations on the same theme. Even the Scofield with its unique locking latch is action wise not all that different from everything else. Not sure what, if anything, this means, but it is an interesting observation. From a practical standpoint, it might have saved S&W a lot of costs on the development side since they already had a design they used for everything.

I got my Arizona CCW in the mail earlier this week. But just today I noticed the lower right hand corner of it... That, is a road runner! But there is no coyote?

To my fellow Lightning shooters, and specifically anyone who owns one chambered for .38 Special. Will they run a .38 Long Colt? I know a .45 Colt will run Schofields, so I guess it's possible. Wondering if anyone knows,

To all my fellow Yankees. Does anyone here happen to own a single action revolver in .475 Lingebaugh? It can be either the Freedom Arms or the BFR, it just needs to be in that caliber. I do NOT wish to purchase it, or fire it or anything like that. But I do need to physically see one. I will explain details in a PM to anyone who inquires. I am doing some research for a long term project. (If this belongs in the Saloon, I ask it be moved there.)

Big hole in them. Not wearable in my book.