H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

Ditto. If I have to pop out live primers, I don't really do anything different from getting rid of spent ones. I just go slowly.

In a way, ALL side matches are exclusionary in one way or another. But that's part of why I thought of this specifically as a side match; it would be purely voluntary. There are plenty of side matches that I don't do because I don't have the needed guns or they just don't interest me. This would be no different than that. As far as the one you described goes, if I knew about it in advance, I'd be inclined to wanna try it. But I don't every thing on the list. The club should make loaners available for each of the "non standard" items. Or, do it side by side with a regular 10-10-4+ scenario for those who don't wanna try all the extras. Such pards would just skip those parts of the scenario. I suppose you could do the same for my idea if you wanted to do it in a main match, but I never thought of it as that kind of an option. That being said, I have attended a shoot where it was either 10-10-4, or 10-5-4. The 5 was for people shooting "big" rifles with targets farther out than normal. Everything else was the same. Nobody got confused, and everyone just chose the category they were interested in. And this was at a State Championship.

There used to be a club around here that did an annual "Iron Man" Match. 2 Main Match rifles, 4 Pistols and a "Whole Bunch" of Shotgun targets. Just as much shooting in a 3 stage match as in a regular 6 stage one. The general premise was, "bring what you have, and share/borrow the rest."

Oh... You have become a part of Cowboy Action Shooting. It's going to cause your collection to grow, exponentially.

Sounds like a lot of fun. Reloads on the 20's, or extra guns?

20-20-10-10-6 stands for what? What's a big single? Something like a Trapdoor or a Rolling Block?

This is all theoretical. I had not considered the possibility of it being part of a main match, just as a side match, most likely at a multi day shoot that has side matches. Usually there's all kinds of room and time for a plethora of side matches. As to what is a "big rifle," well, Winchester 76, 86, 94 or 95. Large Frame Colt Lightning. Marlin or other rifles of similar size. Basically, rifles that fire cartridges that are too big to fit in a normal revolver. I guess the Spencer could go either way.

I am hoping that someone will create a 10-10-10-5-4+ side match. What is a 10-10-10-5-4+ side match? It's really very simple; 10 Main Match Rifle, 10 .22 Rifle, 10 Pistol, 5 "Big" Rifle and 4+ Shotgun. Targets would be at appropriate distances for guns used, and could be set up very similar to a regular stage. You could even use the same targets for everything but the shotgun, just starting farther away and moving closer as the specific gun requires. Now, why do I really, really wish someone would create this side match? Well, I think it would be fun. It could be a one stage side match, or spread over, say three stages. Why three stages? Well, so I don't have to choose which of the following batteries to use! Battery #1 From Top to Bottom... Winchester 97, 12 Gauge Colt Lighting, 45-85 AWA Lighting, .45 Colt Colt Lightning .22 Long AWA Lightning Bolt .45 Colt My own personal Big Iron, .45 Colt (Technically an Armi San Marco clone.) Battery #2. Top to Bottom Parker Trojan, 12 Gauge. Winchester 86, .45-70 Winchester 92. 44 Magnum Winchester 9422, .22 LR Chiappa Mares Leg, .44 Magnum Uberti Clone, .44 Magnum Battery #3. Winchester 87. Uberti 76, .45-60 Uberti 66, .44-40 Uberti 66, .22 LR * Uberti 73 that's been customized to Mares Leg type configuration, .44-40** Colt Buntline, .44-40 * Uberti called this a 66. It uses the same frame as their Henry. It's essentially identical to their reproduction 73 .22's ** This is legally still a rifle. It has a factory 16" barrel, and the overall length is still in excess of 26 inches, so no NFA 34 issues. I will likely do something I have never done before and have this one short stroked and slicked up a bit. If I had been able to find a 16" Henry, I'd have been tempted to figure out how to turn it into an ersatz Volcanic and used my Henry for the Main Match Rifle. By the same token, if the .22 was the 73 reproduction, my rifle would likely be a 73 as well. Ah... The future! So, which battery is the coolest. or most silly? For the record, I know that Mares Leg type pistols are not SASS legal. But this IS for a side match, so anything goes. Or, I would just swap them out for more conventional pistols if required. The whole point of this theoretical side match is more shooting, more fun. That's all.

Walnut shell seems to work for me.

I've seen several posts over the years that say no. I have an early Navy Arms 66, and I can see several differences from a much later Henry, so I tend to believe those who say it can't be done.

Oh yuck! I can see how that could be a frustrating annoyance!

I've got an Uberti Henry, and find it to be not all that much different from shooting a 73 or a 66. (With one small exception that I'll discuss later.) The actions on all three guns are identical, so that's why there's not much difference. My Henry is out of the box stock, and it's never given me a lick of trouble. I also have an early Uberti, read, Navy Arms, 66, and it works just fine as well. If you find a used Navy Arms Henry, in spite of what folks have mentioned about hard to find parts, I'd not hesitate, based on how well the one I have works. But that's just me. The HRA Henry is a very beautiful gun, and by all accounts top quality, but I'd not shell out the money they are asking for them. The Uberti ones work just fine as is, for a lot less money. Now of course, loading a Henry is different, but not all that hard to master. Just be sure not to do so vertically for safety and you'll be fine. If you are gonna go black powder, I'd stick to .44-40. Smokeless, .45 Colt. Where the Henry really has an operating difference is how after you fire 6 or 7 shots, you've got to do what folks call "the Henry Hop," to fire off the last few shots. You've basically got to move your hand out of the way of the fowler tab to finish the shooting string. Many pards, myself included, get around this problem by using a spacer stick. Load 10, then you have a stick to take up the remaining space in the magazine, with no need to hop. It's a really simple fix, and since I don't have a pic handy of mine, hopefully someone will post a pic of theirs before I get home from work. The other nice thing about the Henry is that they have a maximum amount of style points. In other words, they are wicked cool looking, and you can't go wrong with that. But they are not as cool as a Lightning, IMO. Good luck!

Ah! A post from the man who is semi responsible for my own Alias. When I first joined SASS, I wanted to use "Uriah" but it was already taken, so I use "H. K. Uriah," which I do use in several other contexts. Just remember, Uriah, and H. K. Uriah are not the same pard. Even if we do both have Colt 1909's.

I am not sure I understand what that means. Can you post pics?

Let me try to answer some of your queries as best I can. 1. SAA #1 was chambered for .45 Colt. There was a prototype made in .44 American which was the then standard Army caliber, but they wanted a .45. See the latest issue of American Rifleman for an excellent article on the SAA in general and has SAA #1 on the cover. 2 and 3... Over the years, the SAA was chambered in many different calibers. The "originals:" were .45 Colt, .44-40, .38-40, .32-20 and .44 Henry Rimfire, which had a unique serial number range. Other calibers were .38 Long Colt, .38 special, .357 Magnum, ,41 Long Colt and ,44 Special. There were also other calibers that were much rarer. I am not sure exactly when these various calibers were first available or for how long. As far as rim size differences go, I can't say for sure, but it would have been a small thing for them to made any modifications as needed. 4. Your comment on the .45 S&W sounds familiar. But I can say that modern .45 S&W can fit in Colts with no problems. 5. I have also heard of that problem with the 1909. But I can tell you that normal .45 cases will chamber in a 1909 with no problems. (I have one.) The "Colt Frontier Six Shooter" is just what Colt called the SAA chambered for .44-40. If you really wanna go black powder, then .44-40 is a much better choice than .45 Colt. Or for that matter, .38-40 or .32-20 are good with black as well. The straight wall cases CAN be loaded with black, but you'll get a lot more blowback. Others can better explain all of that than I. As far as guns go.... Well, finding real Colts in this caliber is expensive, but it can be done. For example... I got both of these used. The top is a 3rd Gen, and cost me about $1700 at a gun show about 5 years ago. (I live in Massachusetts. Guns are more expensive here.) The bottom is a 1st Gen antique, so black powder only, that is in excellent mechanical shape but ugly as sin. I got it for only $500 just before Covid hit. So inexpensive Colts do exist. Then there are the clones... This Uberti cost even less than the ugly Colt. You might also be able to find something with dual, .44 Special and .44-40 cylinders, but that's gonna push the price up again. Smith and Wesson also chambered the New Model 3 in the caliber, and would be black powder only. Modern replicas of various S&W's can also be had, but they tend to be a lot more costly than clones of the Colt. A real Winchester 73 or 92 in .44-40 is also gonna be pricey, but copies of them, as well as the 66 or Henry are also available in the caliber. Not much else I can tell you, but I hope it's helpful.

Not too long ago I shared a post about my Colt revolvers and asked people to do the same. Some did. (Huzzah!) But I limited my post specifically to real Colts and did not include clones. Well, I was thinking today about the clones and thought it would be fun to share then as well. (By "clones" I mean things that are supposed to be a copy, of sorts, of the Colt SAA, not things that are very similar like the Remington or Ruger.) But I also thought just sharing some clones was kinda "why botherish." But then I realized that there are almost as many different "safeties" on these various clones, or other differences that might be fun to look at. So I figured, "why not?" And with that in mind, I shall now send in the clones. Like with my real Colts, I'll do it by caliber. We will start with .44 Special. The top pistol is an Alder Italy Model 1873, imported by EMF. The bottom is an Uberti Cimmaron. The Alder has got what I consider to be the most offensive, and weirdest, safety I've ever seen on a clone; a kind of rotating cylinder pin. You can tell that it's in the "fire" position by that red dot. This is also why I hate it so much, it's just plain ugly. You can't see it well, but the base of the cylinder pin has a kind of a nub on it. When it's in the fire position, it'll fit in this notch on the hammer, allowing the gun to go bang. When it's in the safe position, it blocks the hammer from going all the way down. This safety might actually work, but I'd not recommend it. Trying to rotate it around to the firing position, while cocked, or at least on half cock, is a fumble and stumble procedure. Best to ignore it's existence and just carry 5. It is however, a very easy thing to fix. A Colt cylinder pin will fit. The Uberti has a strange feature, I don't know what Uberti calls it, but I refer to it as the "Safety Notch Block," and it seems to be the most common safety I see on Uberti made guns. I am sure almost all of us have seen this little switch like thingee on the back of an Uberti hammer. And this is what it looks like from the front of the hammer. And there is a hole in the frame the same shape as the block on the hammer. When the gun is on the first, or safety notch click, this block drops down into the hole, preventing the firing pin from being able to go forward. Of all the safeties I've seen on the clones, this is the only one that seems to function practically, and would thus actually be a viable one for actual use. Not that I would, but it does seem that it actually would be safe. A little more difficult to get rid of, you'd have to replace the hammer with one that doesn't have the block. Don't think it's worth the trouble. Here's my .44-40 clone.... This is an American Arms Uberti. It has the Safety Notch Block safety. Up next, .44 Magnum. The top is another American Arms Uberti with the Safety Notch Block thing. As you can see, it is slightly "upscaled" to, I assume, make it stronger. In the middle is an original Great Western Revolver, which is also the original clone, and depending on who you ask and believe, the first revolver to hit the market in .44 Magnum. Interestingly, it's not scaled up any that I can see when eyeball comparing it to my Colts. The bottom is a Virginian Dragoon, which seems to be more of a copy of the New Frontier than a standard SAA, and it is even more beefed up than the Uberti up top. Here's an interesting feature of the Great Western... No firing pin on the hammer, giving it a very unique and strange look. The firing pin is in the frame. Oddly, this is NOT a safety. With the hammer down, you can see the pin being forward to contact a theoretical cartridge. I have no idea why Great Western made this change, and can see no way to get rid of the feature. The Dragoon has something very similar going on. Again, no firing pin on the hammer.... ...because it's in the frame. Again, not a safety though. Instead, it has one of these... This is a dual position cylinder pin. In the rear position, the gun goes bang. In the front, it causes the pin to stick out the back of the frame, preventing the gun from firing. It works, but I'd not use it. To much of a hassle to "deactivate," and when you put it back in after cleaning, make sure you put it on the correct position. And finally, my .45's The top is a Uberti Cimarron, with the dual position cylinder pin type safety. Next is another American Arms Uberti, (Whatever happened to American Arms?) with the Safety Notch Block. The third gun is an Armi San Marco set up to look like a GI pistol, right down to the US on the frame. It has the dual position cylinder pin safety. And last, but by no means, least, is my (in)famous Big Iron. It's an Armi San Marco that started life as a generic 5.5" barrelled revolver. It also has the dual position cylinder pin safety. Here's pic of it... It's a little different from the Virginian, but you can see the similarity. I'll go on record that, in spite of it's being too impractical to actually use, I find this to be the least "offensive" of all the safeties to be found on the clones. Not only is it not noticeable unless you really look for it, it is easily done away with by replacing it with a Colt pin, which fits. If an SAA type revolver MUST have a safety, this is the kind it should have. And those are my clones. Curiously, I don't have anything made by Pietta. Has anyone encountered a clone with a different kind of safety than what I've seen here? I'd be curious to know about them. Or were/are there any other makers of clones? As soon as I type that, USFA and Standard Manufacturing come to mind, but I don't have any of those either. Anyone else want to share their clones?

In a word, fascinating. I'd be likely to obtain one of these if I ever saw one.

If you "love" it as is when it is "bone stock," why have it modified? I also have a bone stock 24" octagon .32-20 73 rifle made by Winchester. As is, I think it is my favorite lever gun. I do have a 20" 66, which is similar, but not quite the same, and I really don't see much of a difference. I also have an Uberti made 73 with a 16" barrel, but that's all I'll say about that for now... Of course, I have become a Lightning guy, so what do I know? Just for fun...

A quick check says Buffalo Arms has bullets in stock you can use for .50-70, but they are out of stock on brass.

Or a Colt. A good used Colt .22 can be had for a very reasonable price if you look for it. Of course, not as inexpensive as the the above, but, well, you get what you pay for.

Magtech.

I prefer this... Or this...

Everything? Look back up at the scenario I suggested. How would that be impossible if using black powder?

The Cabela's gun library is a strange place. Sometimes you can find great deals there, and at others, their prices are can only be described as unreasonable. And don't get me started how it seems that half the clerks who work in there don't know what they are doing or their at times silly rules about various things.

Start at position 1 with your "rifle caliber" repeating rifle and place 5 shots on the large targets at the back end of the bay that are about 100 yards away. Move forward to position 2, and double tape the the same targets with your main match rifle. Targets are now about 75 yards away. Move to position 3 and double tap the same five targets with your .22 rifle. Targets are now about 50 yards away. Move to position 4 and engage the same 5 targets 5 times with each pistol from 25 yards away. Move to position 5 and engage the 4 shotgun targets with your shotgun from 10 yards away. The shotgun, or the .22 could be optional, or just not included in the first place.