Creeker, SASS #43022

Yul touched on a point that I fully agree with. Persons of color are not especially common in any shooting sport - but even less so within our own. As some may know; my wife, Painted Lady is black. I can count on one hand the number of times she has seen another person of color at a match - including state matches and EOT. Some of this aversion may be cultural; but when we admit we are primarily an old white guy game AND the common refrain even from old white guys is, "I never knew about this game - never heard of it until...." How on earth do we expect to grow if our core doesn't know we exist; much less a young affluent person of color? A famous bank robber once said, when asked why he robbed banks, "because that's where the money is". We need to ACTIVELY go where the next cowboy shooters are - not simply hope they find us. The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting a different outcome. Let's explore all our options and then... Let's try doing something different.

Phantom is exactly right (often is). The key to survival... Actually, forget survival, the key to growth is "understanding" poor people can't support expensive hobbies. And "most" older people can't/ don't participate in active movement hobbies. Focusing on two demographics that can't afford or will not be around for long is a losing plan. To grow; our game MUST invite and retain a younger shooter with disposable income. To survive; and do so as the game we love - we must do the above while remaining a recognizable version of Cowboy Action Shooting. To thrive; we must do all of the above - while at the same time better planning for the needed changes and growing pains the next 40 years will entail. The next generation of SASS shooters are not going to accept, "Do it, because the Wild Bunch said so". There will need to be transparent and understood conventions to the game, rules (and rules changes), a clear procedure for disputes and desired changes and a reason to stay beyond blind loyalty to a game or its founders.

The single thing I know; is SASS has a lot of smart successful people playing our game and in our leadership positions. We find ourselves at a historic juncture with an opportunity to reimagine ourselves and our future. Let's think BIGGER than "we need to allow Gunfighter in all categories". There are internal needs to be revamped - the ROC, the TG process, voting and communication of rules. And there are pressing needs externally as well. Membership growth, game awareness, publicity, and dealing with the perceived stigma of a shooting sport. Perhaps this is just a baseless exercise in "I wish"; but maybe, just maybe, we can give some input to our future. A member of the Wild Bunch once said, "This game dies when the Wild Bunch does". Thankfully, we are not discussing anyone's death, but their retirement - but none the less. With all due respect; I say we all step forward and prove them wrong.

The Wild Bunch is stepping down. Misty is still leading us. The sky is assuredly not falling. And I have already contacted Misty to offer my assistance in any capacity that she might need or desire. (whether that's a positive or not remains to be seen) So, assuming that life and SASS will live on... Where do we go from here? As much as I respect the Wild Bunch and what they accomplished over the last 40 years - if we are honest; our game is slowly diminishing and a continuation of what we have done will only continue us on this same path. I'm excited that new blood may allow for some needed changes and new ideas to grow and reinvigorate the game. So where do we go from here? What ideas, directions, promotions or methods would you like to see looked at or implemented? Just a caveat: Short strokes rifles and 97 shotguns aren't going anywhere - so try to keep your suggestions positive and focused toward actions/ ideas to keep our game relevant for another 40 years. AND if Misty someday were to foolishly ask for my input... I admit upfront, I will steal every single idea on this thread and claim it as my own.

Like any change - this will be "interesting", "challenging", "frightening" and/ or "exciting". I, for one, look forward to the opportunities this brings to move SASS in a positive direction. Change offers the chance to move beyond the current status quo. Revisit options, methods and ideas that perhaps had been dismissed in the past. Look at possibilities that have not been explored fully because of entrenched thinking. Times changes, people change, entities change - there are times when the leaders must change as well. I'm assuming the Wild Bunch considered all the ramifications of this decision and came to the conclusion that their baby will be left in capable hands. Thank you to the Wild Bunch. For creating and leading our game for all these years. And thank you for trusting us to continue taking it forward.

+1000 IF the gun in question was a new in the box, unfired, black diamond trap gun - then, "Ok, I agree, don't cut it" But assuming it's a fair to decent used 97, cut that thing where ever you want it and never look back. We play a game that requires various mechanical devices - make the devices work their best for you. Yes, there is cost and value associated with wear and tear and use and modification. But there is a cost to using devices that are not best configured for success too.

My insurance required the overnight for some reason - money, I would assume (someone is getting a kick back, I'm sure) But I pretty much needed to anyways - took me like four hours to come out of the anesthesia. And even then - I was useless - unable to form coherent sentences (which some will claim is my normal state of being), throwing up and falling down. Kind of glad; I didn't have to put all of that on my wife's shoulders to take care of me.

How can I say this as politely as possible? Surgery sucks. Anesthesia sucks. Hospitals suck. This whole experience sucks so much - it should have sponsorship from Hoover. But I lived through it; the rooms decent, I got a new pair of grippy slipper socks, (the only good reason to go the hospital) and my nurse is pretty... I'm lobbying hard for a sponge bath. Good thing she has a sense of humor. Also, I'm already sharing CAS stories and videos with the staff and the hospital has pretty good grilled cheese. Thank you everyone for all the kind words, texts, phone calls and prayers. I truly appreciate everyone of you. From my friends that I see regularly, my friends that I sadly only get to see once or twice a year at different events. The friends that I only really know from various emails and phone calls. And folks from the wire that I have never met (yet) - but still care enough to drop a note or send prayers. You all mean more to me than I can articulate - thank you. See you on the range (Very soon... Stupid or otherwise)

I certainly wish you would stop promoting this false narrative. There is NO such thing as an age based category. There are pistol shooting style categories - there are equipment derived categories - there are costume derived categories - there are propellent based categories. You are incorrectly identifying a shooting based category (supported) that is commonly divided by age as an age based category. All of the base categories MAY be age divided to provide age protections but the base requirements of the (any) category are ALWAYS the style, equipment, propellent, costume FIRST and THEN divisible by age. Not the other way around. If you wish to shoot Gunfighter category AND you wish to do so in a divided, age protected sub category - simply request that from the match director. The ONLY reason that the multitude of age protections are currently enshrined in the supported shooting style category (and not yet mandated in other styles - beyond Duelist) is the sheer numbers of shooters utilizing the supported style. As shooters age within the base category in Gunfighter, B-Western, Classic, etc. You will discover (and looking at registration for any major match will bear this out) a dramatic growth in the offerings of age protections within more than just the supported category. But continuing to respresent the supported category as age based first and claiming an inability to shoot Gunfighter within an age based division (of Gunfighter) is misleading at best and a deliberate misrepresentation at worst.

Ricochets are a "risk" anytime you are shooting a hard projectile at another hard surface. Out of all the factors that determine splatter intensity - distance is but one of them and is NOT the primary. Splatter is USUALLY/ PRIMARILY caused by poor quality targets (cratered, pockmarked, curved, etc), or by stands/ hanging systems that get struck by projectiles and return them towards the firing line. Splatter is also commonly caused by plates being struck at extreme angles relative to the firing line. I. E. Shooting at angles instead of straight on. IF your venue utilizes poor quality targets/ stands and engages with poor angles on the targets - then Yes, extreme target distance could possibly assist with mitigation of splatter - but to make any significant difference; the plates would need to be placed at such extreme distances that splatter would no longer be an issue as no one would be attending your events. Properly prepared, good quality targets with a 30-45 degree vertical hanging angle that directs lead into the ground instead of back towards the firinging line - along with either hidden stands or sacrificial stands (wood) that absorb splatter instead of bouncing it can make distance a moot concern. It amazes me to listen to otherwise intelligent people expound on splatter - trying to convince anyone (or themselves) that somehow the same plate being struck at 4 yards will spit back splatter hard enough to cause injury or loosen teeth - but magically, move that same pockmarked and steel rebar poorly hung plate out to 7 yards and suddenly any bullet that strikes it dissolved into feathers and puppy kisses. I have been struck by splatter from rounds fired in the next bay. I have swept lead splatter from the bed of my truck parked in the lot, far outside the bay. These incidents occurred at distances well beyond the target array distances that even the most diehard long range cowboy shooter would approve of. The commonality of these events were ALWAYS target quality/ hanging method - not distance to target. I have written a match or two and set steel for a few more over the last 20 years - trust me; I know what I'm saying.

So... I'm not allowed to be stupid. And now, I'm forbidden from chasing nurses? I thought that was the whole purpose of an overnight stay. This is starting to sound like less and less fun all the time. Thank you everybody for the kind words.

No rehab as of yet. Went to the surgical center and found out my insurance doesn't approve of the place. According to them (insurance) the procedure "must" be done at a hospital and I "have" to remain overnight. So what I expected to be outpatient surgery at the surgical center yesterday is now an overnight stay at the hospital NEXT Thursday. Downside is I have to wait another week - upside is maybe I'll go shooting this weekend. Or not... Depends on whether I can get my lazy hind end out of bed and lift the guncart into the car in the morning.

I really wish match directors would make a concentrated effort to write the cleanest, neatest possible stages over attempts to be cutesy. Write six stages of the simplest sweeps possible with a modicum of movement and I guarantee your shooters reaction will be positive when compared to complex sweeps and odd target placement. The stages that get the best reaction are NEVER the most complex or the most "interesting" or the most "challenging". The best reaction is when the instructions/ shooters options are clear - the sequence is straight forward and flowing and targets are placed to allow each shooter to run their own personal ragged edge. Swinging the front sight from one edge of the bay to the other and then back again is a needless sequence and does not lend itself to creating any kind of flow. Of course, as the match director, you can do anything you want and your shooters will have to shoot what you have set in front of them. But unfortunately, most shooters won't give you honest feedback - they will mumble meaningless pablum about "everyone shoots the same stages" and "If someone is willing to set the steel - I'll shoot whatever they have set". It's the Jurassic Park syndrome... Match Directors get so caught up in all the possibilities and thinking, "Is this something I can do?" - they never stop to consider, "Is this really something I should be doing?"

I don't actually know how significant my issues are. When the Dr. says, I think I know everything we are going to run into; but when I get in there - things can always change. And I don't know myself either... Sometimes it feels like a red-hot spike thru the shoulder; other times it doesn't hurt so bad and I wonder if I'm being a wuss and should just "suck it up buttercup".

Thank you. And thank you to everyone for the well wishes and advice. It is my right shoulder - fortunately, I am a lefty. But as a Gunfighter and a pull four shells from the right 97 shooter - my biggest concern is not my ability to return to the game, but to do so in a competitive manner. But if circumstances dictate - I was a fairly proficient (double) Duelist years ago - perhaps a return may be in order. Or I can explore the world of supported shooters. And I can experiment with different models of loading the 97. I just hate losing the summer and the inevitable decline in skillset from dis-use. But I'll be back. I love the game too much. I love my friends within the game too much. And honestly; the same reason I took so long to get the shoulder fixed is the same reason I'll guarantee I'll be back. I'm just too stinking stubborn to give in. I'll see you all soon. Hey, shooting is therapy, right?

Let me preface my comments by stating, the fine folks at the Huntsman games and more specifically, the folks from the Dixie Desperados (handlers of the CAS portion of the games) are friends of mine - so perhaps I'm a little defensive. I am also aware my response may seem aggressive or uncaring; but... The organizers of an event - any event - owe you (or me) nothing in the way of comment, explanation or defense of their decision making timeline. I, for one, admire their restraint to not instantly give in to fear - throw up their hands and cancel an event that is still many months away. Many possible events - both positive (cures, vaccine, herd immunity, etc.) or negative (flareups, strain mutations, etc.) could occur over the next few months. With no way of knowing which of the possible futures are forthcoming - it seems reasonable for an event still months away to adopt a wait and see attitude. Life is terminal and none of us get out alive - no matter the claims, platitudes and promises of any activity. It is ultimately upon you to make wise choices about your health and safety - to decide which activities are safe to take part in and which are not. I assure you, every reasonable precaution will be in place at the event - but if YOU feel unsafe or uncomfortable - it is incumbent upon you and ONLY you to take the actions you feel are appropriate. No one is forcing anyone to do anything that they are uncomfortable with - CAS is and always has been a voluntary pastime. So, instead of relying on others to keep me safe by claiming they are doing X or cancelling Y. I will make the appropriate partipation decisions for myself; I highly recommend others do the same.

But... But... But... I specialize in stupid. It's hard to refrain from the only thing I am really good at.

Well it's time. Shoulder surgery next Thursday - rotator cuff, labrum, biceps tendon. Ya freakin' hooo. Even more annoying is the pre registration - Blood tests, EKG and my personal favorite - sticking a cotton swab up my nose and into my brain for Covid 19 testing. So after accruing two months of rust from quarantine (which I sadly showed last week in Prescott; but thanks to the Whiskey Row Gunfighters for a great time anyways) I face the possibility of another 8-12 weeks of time off. Wish me luck.

My opinion... Prior "pump" shotgun experience does not translate into any kind of benefit utilizing a 1897 in cowboy. I do believe the 1897 is (again, my opinion) an easier/ quicker gun to become competent with in cowboy than a SxS (or lever). But noticible success with any action will take dedicated practice and reliable, well tuned firearms. Full disclosure - I shoot a 97 (at a fair to mediocre skill level). But I honestly think based on shotgun tuners, availability of quality specimens and current target setting trends (targets set in pairs with close side to side distances/ even numbers of targets/ etc) - the SxS user (one who is willing to put in the time) has the better potential for success in CAS. I've just shot a 97 for so long - I don't wish to change. If I was starting today - I probably would be a SxS shooter.

I've found that using the "correct" tool for any job usually gives me the best results. For dinging steel - my 38spl. 105's do exactly the job they are designed for. For knockdowns - my box of 38 spl. 158 grainers suit their purpose. I have zero need to have a single round perform every duty that may arise. I would use a different gun and caliber on squirrel than than I would for elk. A different gun and caliber for benchrest than for shooting IPSC. And if I realized that my one firearm and caliber were incompatible with a given game or situation - I would adjust my equipment; not demand the game change to suit me. Specialized equipment is not a new concept - a drag car suits different purposes than an oval track car. And while a NASCAR stocker might perform pretty well in a straight line - an NHRA purpose built car will do it better. Throw a high speed left turn in at the end of the quarter mile and needs will change again. Make that high speed turn loose gravel and needs change yet again. NHRA drag car, NASCAR stock car, WRC all wheel drive rally car - all fully competent and serious race equipment. All possibly the wrong choice depending on the track before it. But fortunately, for racers - they know the track and requirements before the event arrives. CAS is a game that can vary match to match from a high speed straight line "drag race" to a technical all turns road course. And since we don't know until we show up... Any shooter expecting success - better show up with the equipment needed for the course requirements. If you don't care about success - run what'cha brung and have fun - but don't whine about Target distance, knockdowns or "course requirements" if you didn't prepare for them. The only caveat to run what you brung is if your equipment is illegal, dangerous to yourself or others - or damaging to the clubs equipment.

Splatter is caused by angle and condition of targets (badly angled/ pitted or dinged surfaces) - composition of bullet (jackets, hard cast) - configuration of stands (legs/ hangers interfering and/ or redirecting splatter direction) - composition of ground (splatter into gravel or hard surfaces that redirect or splatter themselves) It is NOT caused by distance. If you are maintaining that Incidents of splatter (at the firing line) that are caused by these factors may be "slightly" alleviated by adding distance - you may be correct. BUT... Your wife was struck by a round TWENTY feet to the rear of the firing line. Another thread mentioned a piece of lead traveling two stages over. No projectile loses enough energy in three to five yards to change from bruising and drawing blood to "Shoo fly, get away from me". So how far out exactly are you going to move the targets to "fix" the problem? Another poster dramatically implored the OP to not let his wife shoot the targets unless the targets were set at SASS distances. But a target that splatters and injures people, drawing blood, wounding posse members at 4 yards will not MAGICALLY stop doing so when placed at 7 yards. So instead of placing targets out at distances that most dont want to shoot at... (and that are only a band aid for a different issue) Wouldn't it really be better to actually find out why the splatter is happening and correct that?

Ok, then answer the initial question. If a supported shooter or a duelist grounds pistol one and then proceeds to shoot their rifle and shotgun. Then shoots pistol two and THEN holsters both pistols. Are you calling a penalty for failing to holster at the conclusion of the pistol string? Is a pistol string all rounds from both pistols or does the inclusion of other guns between the pistol create two separate pistol strings? It is a "possible" action and I do not see a definitive answer in the books. All I really want to do is get the call correct; regardless of what the call ends up being.

I was working on the stages for the Eldorado Cowboys "Best Shoot by a Dam Site" when I had a "hmmm" moment. The stage I was working on contains split pistols. As a matter of fact, the firearm sequence is pistol-shotgun-rifle-shotgun- pistol. So I decided to make it a single position stand and deliver; allowing the Gunfighters to draw both pistols, shoot five, ground the pistols and return to them as needed. Easy enough, we do it all the time. But then it got me to thinking about other categories and choosing to ground their pistols. The rules allow the 1st pistol to be grounded and the 2nd pistol to be shot (completing the pistol string) before holstering either pistol. In my sequence of split pistols; when does the pistol string end? Could a shooter choose to ground their first pistol, shoot the other firearms and then shoot their 2nd pistol and then holster their 1st grounded pistol at the end of the stage? Or because there are other firearms in play; does this create two separate pistol strings and require a shooter to holster pistol number one before firing a different type of gun?

In case anyone was interested... Exploding cans of shaving cream. APPROVED.

Just as a point of reference... I'm currently trying to get the range to approve shooting pressurized aerosol cans of shaving cream. Barber shop and aprons anyone?