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Chief Rick

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Posts posted by Chief Rick

  1. image.png.fe3b88f571fd5091670c5fb83bbd9e58.png

    2 Pistols - 5 rounds each, holstered
    With pistols, starting and ending on P3, engage the five pistol targets with at least one round each.


    For the above pistol string, a several shooters engaged as follows: P3, P2, P1, P5, P4 - P3, P3, P3, P3, P3.


    If a shooter misses either P1, P2, P4 or P5 when shooting as identified above (example: P3, P2, P1, P5, MISS - P3, P3, P3, P3, P3)...


    I would assess a miss as there's no way to judge intent and a miss can't cause a P.


    What if the stage instructions read:

    With pistols, starting and ending on P3, engage the five pistol targets with at least one round each.  Each target must be HIT with at least one round.


    Would that then be a miss and a P?

  2. 3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

    Why do the ladies only deserve half as many points??:blink: Something doesn't seem right about that.

    Because that's the number we went with for first place. 


    When you only have three ladies at a monthly match on a regular basis, and maybe six on a blue moon coupled with an eclipse, there's no need (IMO) to assign 20 points.


    As a club we decided on these points/rules when we started the contest.


    No need to inflate numbers.  If your club chooses to run a similar contest, they can assign points however they see fit.

    • Thanks 2
  3. After each match, our shooters are assigned points. 


    First place male gets 20, second place male 19 and so on down the line.  If there are more than 20 male shooters, everyone below 20th gets one point. 


    First place female shooter gets 10 points, second place gets nine points and so on down to 10th place who gets one point.  If there are more than 10 female shooters, everyone below 10th place would get one point.


    Points are tallied at the end of the year and a buckle is awarded.


    First tie-breaker for both is number of matches shot.  Second tie-breaker is fastest total-time for all matches shot.


    We also give a buckle for the shooter with the most clean matches.


    First tie-breaker is number of matches shot.  Second tie-breaker is fastest total-time for all matches shot.


    If they're still being offered, we may award Molly's tumblers next year.


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  4. 55 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:


    This shooter comes to the line and shoots 4 of the pistol targets, then knocks down 5 of the rifle targets before shooting the 5th pistol target(not going for the dump plate at all) before switching to rifle...


    Then engaging the remaining 5 rifle targets before dumping 5 rounds into the berm...


    Well, still no misses, not a P either. What I tried to create with this scenario is a SoG. On the assumption the rifle targets where easily engaged by pistol. Did I succeed?


    On edit: Shooter intent is a factor discussed earlier. Hard to not see intent for my hypothetical next shooter.

    I'm glad I don't knowingly shoot with this type of shooter.

    • Like 1
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  5. 5 hours ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

    I am not trying to GIVE the shooter a miss or a P, However OP  states that 

    "With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets".

    "The first three rounds knock down the first three targets. 

    Shooter misses the fourth target with the fourth shot. 

    Shooter re-engages the fourth target, knocks it down!"

    Meaning that Shooter did not engage all 10 rifle targets with the rifle as instructed shooter only engaged 9 of the rifle targets, #4 was engaged twice.  

    How could this not at least be a P for not engaging all rifle targets with the rifle. I shoot at several clubs and the unwritten rule for a target that falls or was not set before the stage is shot is that the shooter shoots where it would be. No misses. So u8nless the OP was posting the instructions different than written I stand by my call. And will gladly hand the spotting stick/timer to someone else if I am wrong!





    Since I'm the one that wrote the original, allow me to modify it by stating:


    The first three rifle rounds knocked down the first three rifle targets. 

    Shooter missed with the fourth shot. 

    Shooter then knocked down the remaining standing rifle targets.


    Without questioning the shooter or assuming the shooter's intentions - what's the call?

    Not assuming where the shooter was aiming or their intentions.  There were nine standing rifle targets when the shooter started with the rifle.  There were 10 shots fired and no standing rifle targets when the shooter completed the rifle string.

    • Like 2
  6. On 4/4/2024 at 6:24 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:


    The OP is delivering their subjective opinion of what happened.  The only person who KNOWS what they intended is the shooter and honestly - what they intended is immaterial to the call.


    What WE actually know and can score on or potentially assign penalty on is the following.

    The shooter had 10 pistol rounds to knockdown 5 pistol targets.

    AND we know that misses on the PISTOL knockdowns do not count.


    Shooter engaged pistol knockdowns - in the course of engaging pistol knockdowns; a PISTOL round struck and knocked down a RIFLE target.

    Shooter completed the pistol knockdown string and placed remaining rounds on the pistol dump target.


    Lets score this so far.

    Misses on pistol knockdowns do not count.

    All pistol knockdowns were down before transitioning to the dump.

    Shooter had no misses on the dump plate.

    So no miss penalty is present.

    The pistol round that struck the RIFLE target is immaterial as for purposes of scoring - targets assigned to a specific type firearm DO NOT EXIST for any other type firearm.  The pistol round striking a rifle plate is not a hit, nor a procedural as that target is "not present" - it is considered "air".


    So no misses - no P for pistols.


    So now rifle - there exists 10 RIFLE knockdowns with 10 RIFLE rounds to engage.

    One RIFLE knockdown has fallen - in this case because of an errant pistol round; but the reason is immaterial (under other circumstances, it could have been wind, rack vibration or a host of reasons).

    So having 9 available targets (with NO assigned order) and 10 rounds for engagement - we KNOW one round will be designated for "air".

    The shooter struck three targets - 4th went to air and then completed the knockdown string.

    There is NO definition of "shoot where it was" - a round safely discharged downrange from the proper firearm at an appropriate time in the shooting string is sufficient.

    As there was no shooting order - the rifle round designated for air could be expended at ANYTIME in the rifle string.


    10 rifle rounds expended - 10 knockdowns down.

    No rifle misses - no p.


    Clean shooter.


    In THIS instance - the pistol round that struck and knocked down the rifle target was (assumedly) an accident.

    I "could" see other penalties (SoG) being applicable IF the shooter were deliberately attempting to take down rifle targets by pistol for some form of advantage knowing they was no other penalty for doing so.  But thats a different discussion.



    Thank you for the explanation.  This is how our TO and spotters ruled - without asking the shooter of their "intentions".


    Hope we were right.:D



    • Like 3
  7. On 4/4/2024 at 4:46 PM, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said:

    Seems like you are missing something.  Stage diagram shows shotgun targets but no instructions for shotgun.  Were they just props for this stage?  I could see this stage run as 10 rifle knockdowns with any left standing taken down with shotgun after 2 shotgun targets are down. 

    Shotgun is irrelevant to the situation.

    • Thanks 2
  8. On 4/4/2024 at 2:35 PM, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

    Seems like poor stage instructions...

    Marshal, I'm quoting you only because you are the first (or is it last??) to make this comment.


    Stage instructions:

    With pistols, first engage the five bottles then place all remaining rounds on the dump plate.


    With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets.


    Anyone stating that these are poor stage instructions, please explain how this could be written any more clearly.

    • Confused 1
  9. This is the first time we've run this scenario with the targets set up in these positions.


    We called it clean.


    Per pistol instructions, only standing bottles or misses on the dump plate are misses - after 10 rounds, there were no standing bottles or misses on the dump target.


    Per rifle instructions, there was no target order.  10 shots were fired and 10 plates were down.


    Would any of you calling a P or a Miss change your call if wind had caused one of the rifle targets to fall?


    The issue was with some of the rifle target locations not allowing a clean miss of a pistol target without affecting a rifle target.  This is not an issue with stationary targets, but as you can see it can have an effect on knock-downs.  I have ideas on how to make that work better going forward.


    We don't shoot these often because it takes a lot of time to set them up in first place to ensure they fall reliably, without falling with a gust of wind.  It also takes considerably more time to reset.


    That said, we enjoy variety and using what we have.

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  10. 16 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:



    stage writer needs a bit of help


    Please write this as you would to make it better, using the targets as indicated.

    11 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said:

    I find it interesting how many WTC are a result of poor stage writing, poor stage design and the posse marshal not seeing the potential problems.  Did any of those listed take an RO II course lately?

    Yes.  I guess we're just not perfect.

    • Like 1
  11. With pistols, first engage the five bottles then place all remaining rounds on the dump plate.




    With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets.


    Shooter engages the bottles with pistols. 

    The first three shots knock over the first three bottles. 

    The fourth shot misses a bottle but hits a rifle knock-down, making it fall. 

    The fifth and sixth shots knock over the last two bottles, shooter then engages and hits the stationary dump target with the remaining four rounds.


    Shooter then picks up rifle and engages the rifle knock-down targets.  There are only nine targets standing due to one being hit by a pistol round. 


    The first three rounds knock down the first three targets. 

    Shooter misses the fourth target with the fourth shot. 

    Shooter re-engages the fourth target, knocks it down and then knocks down the remaining targets.


    What’s the call?

  12. I bought a Pentax PF-80ED over a decade ago.  Can't compare it to a Kowa or any other high-dollar spotting scope.


    The PF-80 has served me well, except for one shortcoming: eye relief.  After I started wearing glasses, I found the eye box on the scope to be more difficult to get behind.  Pay attention to eye relief, especially if you wear glasses.


    I bought the PF-80 based on reviews from a few bird-watching blogs/websites.  Bird-watchers are very conscious of glass quality and portability, among other things.

  13. Remember when it was hard to find Huy Fong sriracha (we just called it the rooster brand)?

    Huy Fong Sriracha Chili Sauce - 28oz : Target

    Now that it's been back on shelves it tastes different, and a lot of people don't like it (including me).


    My new favorite is Sky Valley sriracha.  It has a slightly smokey flavor and goes great on eggs.  I love it on grilled chicken and rice.

    Sriracha Sauce | Southeast Asian Hot Sauce | Gluten-Free

  14. 3 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

     must have an uninterrupted view of the horizon


    From the Star Link website:
    Starlink requires an unobstructed view of the sky. Download the Starlink app to determine your best install location.


    I know several people who have the "RV" service.


    To my understanding, the only difference being that the RV service can be throttled during peak times.  That said, none of my acquaintances have ever had an issue.


    One family, to include three kids, have run two laptops and five tablets simultaneously streaming movies with no lag.


    That said, cloud cover and inclement weather can play a factor.

  15. @Popcorn Kelly


    We have our annual match coming up next month.  Historically, I've just use Excel to cut & paste.  It can be done, but it's time consuming and mistakes can and do happen (not getting people on a posse with someone they asked for).


    The other issue has been re-assigning people to balance the posse.


    Your macros in Excel are great for me so far.


    It contains a lot of data that we don't/haven't used, but it's better to have and not need.


    Thank you!

  16. 41 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said:

    How does your club run your props, off or on the timer?

    Depending on the prop - we do both.


    We have a stage with a gong.  The shooter indicates ready by saying a line and banging the gong, the TO then gives stand-by and the beep.


    If we are throwing a stick of dynamite or stabbing a knife into a prop the shooter will say a line, the TO will give stand-by and after the beep the shooter will throw the dynamite/stab the prop.

    • Like 2
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  17. 10 hours ago, Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 said:

    Anyone ever heard of it?

    Howdy MM!


    Heard and read about - Yes.


    Seen or held a gun or ammo - No.


    Proprietary cartridges made/developed by Lazzeroni.  Expensive guns and expensive ammo.


    Think Weatherby but on steroids.



    • Like 1
  18. @Trailrider #896 they did get the cargo hatch to open but could not get it closed.


    We watched the live feed and while they were showing the cargo hatch it abruptly fell inward, dangling (what appeared to be) several inches inboard.


    Couple that with quite a few lost heat tiles and what appeared to be a slow roll as it re-entered the atmosphere, I'm surprised they had telemetry for as long as they did.


    The camera views were awesome!

    • Like 2
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