Bisley Joe
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Posts posted by Bisley Joe
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On 3/23/2024 at 9:09 PM, Griff said:
FYI, the below picture has had an arrow added to it indicating the hook of the extractor. Your dummy cartridge should be able to be placed behind this hook, against the bolt face to facilitate prying the ejector back into the bolt. If you were unable to do this either the extractor is too short or it was cut too shallow. The rim thickness for a 45 Colt is `.060". The distance from the inside of the hook to the bolt face must be at least this distance, otherwise the extractor cannot drop over the rim to extract the case from the chamber. I don't actually use a dummy cartridge as an assembly aid, just a empty case... works as well.
If you have a dial caliper, and haven't sent the rifle back yet, measure that distance and include the actual measurement in a note accompanying the rifle. I'd also measure the inside radius of the bolt hood, that "arc" covering the rim over the top of the bolt. The rim diameter for the 45 Colt is .512" +/- .012. Ergo the radius should be at least .256". This will keep the rim from sitting flush against the bolt face, again making extraction impossible.
Additionally, I keep a couple of small magnetic parts tray handy when disassembling a rifle to keep the small metal bits contained in near proximity to my work.
Sorry I didn't see your latests posts to this topic before now, but had a set of circumstances of my own to deal with.
Thank you for your input! I appreciate it!
I tried a dummy cartridge and an empty case. Switched to the dummy as it allowed me to easily insert the cartridge partially into the chamber and not get ejected. I had to hold it down with my thumb so it wouldn't be tossed off, so your idea about the extractor being too short or shallow sounds like a good possibility.
One thing I noticed was that the bolt wouldn't fully close, by just a hair, with a round chambered (a dummy round) and the extractor stayed slightly elevated. Working the lever would not extract, of course, because the extractor wouldn't fall and grab the cartridge case. And even closing it rather hard did nothing.
However, dropping the hammer was enough to nudge the bolt forward, causing the extractor to drop, grab the case rim, and then it would extract and eject fine.
I wasn't about to try this with live ammunition though. Maybe I'm paranoid, but the thought of a round going off a microsecond before the bolt is fully closed made me a bit uncomfortable.
Anyway, I sent the rifle back. Waiting to see what they say.
Again, thank you.
Hopefully they will send me another rifle. One that actually works.
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Was finally able to send the rifle back.
Waiting for a reply.
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11 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:
Okay, but quit saying that it won't eject. It won't EXTRACT!
Has to extract before it can eject. Just so people don't get confused, ya know. That extra hard ejector spring isn't the problem, but many will replace it with a lighter spring which makes closing the action easier with a round in it and also doesn't throw empties as far. Putting one of those back together the first time is a bit fiddly the first time, even if you know the trick of the casing hooked under the extractor and inserted into the chamber. But it's pretty easy once you get where things need to be to line up the holes. You mention that you heard this failure was common, but I'm not so sure. I haven't heard much about that, myself, on a new gun, anyway. Maybe you just got a lemon! Since you don't want to mail it off, maybe somebody around you has some experience with '92's, maybe ask around at the local club. Hope you get it sorted out!
Damn it! Sorry about that! Right: it won't EXTRACT. EXTRAAAAAACT!!!!
I got my blood pressure down a bit from this and wrote back Rossi/Taurus. Let's see what they say. If they fix this/give me a new rifle that works, I will change my mind.
I will update once I know.
Thank you for the help to everyone, and for the patience in correcting my eject vs extract!
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Well, venting here.
Just really pissed off because I very much liked this little rifle! It is a perfect size for a truck gun and I wanted to use it as a woods rifle along with my woods pistol: Ruger Bisley/Cimarron Bisley, both in the same caliber (45 Colt).
I also planned on it being my SASS rifle for when I shoot the Bisley revolvers and possibly a '97.
The issue remains the same: the extractor will not drop fully and grab the cartridge rim.
I noticed that, with dummy rounds, if I pull the trigger/drop the hammer on a chambered dummy round, the extractor will drop, and the round will eject. This made me think that the bolt is not going all the way forward.
I gently tapped the rear of the bolt-beside the firing pin-with a drift/small plastic mallet, and the extractor dropped, grabbed the case rim, and then ejected.
The ejector spring feels ridiculously hard, so maybe this is it? But even slamming the lever shut hard does not remedy the situation.
I can understand some ammo fussiness due to the straight-wall cartridges. However, failing to eject-every time-is a clear sign of abysmal quality control and a lack of respect for their customers-not to mention their own brand!
Very frustrating.
So I emailed Rossi in a followup email. I guess its worth seeing if this is easily resolved.
It will take a big, positive surprise for me to ever even consider a Rossi again.
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Got the lever in-finally. Still not ejecting.
I will never buy a Rossi again.
I have three friends who were waiting and I just let them know. They will buy another brand.
There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of garbage to be made, and that these issues are KNOWN to be common is even worse.
If the rifle was under $300 maybe it would be tolerable, but even the "low" price of over $600 is a scam.
Can't send it in anymore because warranty is obviously void now.
The absolute worst experience with a firearm I have ever had.
I may see if a gunsmith will touch it. If it's too much to fix I will chop it up and dump it in the trash.
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Absolutely NOTHING I try works.
Rifle on it's side, upside down, right side up.... lever goes in but pin will not go in.
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I am now following this video, which showed how to get the dummy round to stay: using finger pressure.
Now the issue is that, no matter what I try, the lever with the lugs will not go in an line up. The lugs are on the correct side and everything, but it just will not line up.
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Howdy and thankjs for the replies so far!
OK.
I bought the DVD.
There was no need to mod the extractor because it was already thinned like in the video.
I disassembled the rifle as per the video and decided to leave everything as is, at least for now, except for running a diamond file lightly on the extractor claw.
I reinstalled the extractor, put an empty case in the chamber, and ran the bolt into it and pulled out. The case ejected this time. But since the rifle was still unassembled, I can't tell if it really is fixed.
So here is the issue...
In the video, he puts a dummy round into the bolt and it is held there. He then partially inserts it into the chamber and installs the lever.
No matter what I try, I can't get an empty case to click onto the bolt and get held there. I don't know how he does this. He seems to just put it there and it stays.
His rifle is a 38 Special. Mine is in .45 Colt. Don't know if that makes a difference.
The ejector is always forward and under tension, pushing the bottom of the case up. There is nothing I see to hold that case against the bolt like he does.
In the video, he works the lever on the bolt outside of the gun to see if the ejector has movement. I did this and it has movement. Damn stout spring though.
Maybe I am missing something here?
I have included two photos, one from each side, to see if anyone can tell anything from the photo.
It the little bushing too far forward? Does anything look off?
Thanks
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8 minutes ago, Griff said:
Again, #55 is the extractor. Nomenclature is important, it forms the basis understanding the "what" is under discussion. I wouldn't give up on all Rossi's just yet, they have been a well-known "project rifle" from the mid 1980's when I bought my first one, as I was warned ahead of time. Luckily, mine was only rough. It doesn't matter what you buy, some examples are going to have been built on a Friday or a Monday... I've seen folks try using a brand-new Marlin and face similar issues... and the dreaded Marlin-jam is not uncommon. Stick around and you'll soon read of someone complaining about their new Uberti. (Cimarron, Taylor's & others are only importers). And while I detest Henry's, they, at least, seem to do a better job than most at quality control... but there's still an odd one that'll slip thru. And, even when well-fitted, are not quite the equal of a good Marlin or actual Winchester.
Another thing you can do to test the extractor is the feed a round thru the top, but instead of just pushing it into the chamber, actually attempt to hook the rim onto the claw of the extractor, then push it down to retract the ejector and feed it into the chamber. 1st, if the ejector doesn't hook the rim, don't push it into the chamber, you've just proved the extractor hook will need to be filed to fit the rim.
Lastly, once you get the rifle operational, and if you follow the tuning tips in Steve's DVD, you're going to love the smooth light action.
Thanks for the correction!
I hope you're right, and that the DVD makes it easy to make this a good rifle. I do like it.
Thank you!
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18 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:
The ejector does not remove the cartridge from the chamber, the EXTRACTOR does.
The EJECTOR 'kicks' the cartridge out of the receiver, while the EXTRACTOR holds the cartridge case rim against the breechface of the bolt.
You have a EXTRACTOR issue......
Makes sense. Thank you!
11 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:I'd much rather fix it myself (if one is inclined) as opposed to sending it back. You have the delay AND the one I saw that they fixed on a friend's .357 '92 was horrible.
Looked like they bent the extractor up with a pliers and then back down in order to get more tension. TERRIBLE!!! Have anyone but the factory fix it.
Point taken! Yeah, not gonna risk that PIA for another. I'll see what the DVD helps me do. Thank you!
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On 2/12/2024 at 11:59 PM, Griff said:
The ejector is the part at the bottom front of the bolt with the two little "tails" at the bottom. #59 in this schematic, #55 is the extractor (small box in the upper left). Although this schematic is of the Winchester, the Rossi is close in nearly all details.
I would say it's the ejector then, #55. This is the part I notice stays up with a chambered round.
I won't know for sure until I get that DVD and look into this.
I thought of sending the rifle back, but don;t want to do that and wait a ridiculous time for it.
This is inexcusable for an issue that seems to be very common and that Rossi could easily remedy.
If this is not easily fixed with the DVD and becomes a bigger issue, I will never buy anything Rossi/Taurus again. I have three friends wanting to get this rifle and I told them to hold off until I see what happens. So if this isn't fixed easily, I'll tell them to just go elsewhere for a rifle. I'd rather pay more for a Marlin or a Henry, or a Uberti/Cimarron and have a working rifle than pay less and deal with this ridiculous issue.
From what I have read, it is hopefully easily remedied and the rifle easy to slick up. I truly hope this is the case.
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I tried a Starline Brass 45 Colt case in the rifle. Same thing: ejector stayed up when over the "loaded" chamber". Didn;t get a chance to measure because I got home late and can;t remember where the caliper is right now, but I think its safe to say that its the ejector that needs a little filing.
Once the DVD gets here, I will work on it.
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4 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:
This is what I use to do for a living. The slot in the extractor is slightly miss-cut and is just a couple of thou narrow. You will still need the DVD showing you how to disassemble and reassemble the action. Remove the Bolt and remove the extractor. With two minutes with a small (jewelers ) file, you can open the slot just enough. Get the "Spring Kit" that tunes the rifle, and while you have it apart you can do a simple "action job" and be amazed by how fast and smooth a '92 can run. You're also going to "tune" the Extractor just a smidge and tune the Lever Latch.
Watch the DVD all the way thru. Then watch it again. Then watch it again. Then "just follow the instructions"
Sounds like a plan! Will do! Thanks!
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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:
What brand of ammo?
Do you have any Starline brass to try?
Mic the rim and compare it to the SAAMI spec.
What brand of ammo?
Can't recall at the moment. It's not a cowboy load, it's a copper jacketed flat nose that is in a more self defense level. I'll check when I get home. But regardless, I need it to work with anything. This will serve as a truck gun as well.
Do you have any Starline brass to try?
Yes. EMpty cartridges at the moment, but I can try that when I get home.
Mic the rim and compare it to the SAAMI spec.
What does "Mic" mean? Measure? I will do that at home and post it.
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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:
Yes it is but it may be a year or more before Taurus/Rossi returns the rifle.
For such an easy fix I'd remove the extractor and fix it with a fine jewlers file.
That's what I was thinking and why I ordered the video. Even if it was a month turnaround I wouldn't want to do that.
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3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:
What happens if the rapidly cycle the action?
Measure the rim thickness of the cartridge and post it up.
What happens if the rapidly cycle the action?
Same thing. I even tried closing the action extra hard. No difference.
Measure the rim thickness of the cartridge and post it up.
I'll look for my caliper and do tat later when I get home. Thanks.
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42 minutes ago, Go West said:
What you describe is a warranty issue. What does Taurus say?
I would guess you have insufficient clearance for the rim (max .06").
I am going to contact them about it. I just don't really want to send out the rifle.
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16 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:
Are the rounds reloads?
No.
They are brand new factory loads. And I loaded up a whole magazine and it does this with every single round.
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Just for the sake of discussion:
I worked the ejector up and down with a small screwdriver and felt a good resistance from the spring: it snaps back in place with no issues.
Since it stays up only when there's a loaded round, and since the rifle is brand new and never been fired, maybe the claw part of the ejector is not properly cut and so is not clearing the brass rim.
I'll find out soon enough, anyway, once I get that DVD and do some work.
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Thank you for the replies! I ordered the video. Will go back and order the spring and follower.
I have three friends that are gonna get the same rifle, but in .357 Magnum, and I'm gonna get one also in .357, so I figure I can help them out by knowing how to slick it up.
Other than the issue of the extractor, it is a very nice rifle.
Mine is actually the shorty with the 16" barrel and big loop lever. I took of the annoying fake leather strap from the saddle ring, and may remove the saddle ring-not sure. I figure it can serve as a sort of sling hanger if ever I need to walk a long distance with it.
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Just got a new Rossi 92 in 45 Colt.
Saw another post on this but it's archived. Writing this because it seems crazy that this is still a common issue.
The extractor is not working: not ejecting the rounds. At first I thought it was a feeding issue, but what's happening is when I work the lever, the round in the chamber stays in, and of course the next round comes up and jams up the bolt. The first round from the magazine feeds fine. This was done with live rounds, safety on, pointing down into a wood wall/floor corner with no one on the other side.
I'm pretty irritated at this, especially after hearing that this seems to be a very common problem. Can't figure why a business would allow something like this to continue.
Loading rounds also seems a bit too difficult, with most cartridges having to be pushed in with another. Maybe some of this is resolvable with a good break-in period, but the ejector is just inexcusable.
Anyway...
I noticed that the extractor sits flush as it should, when moving to the rear, or when on an empty chamber. However, with a round in the chamber, the extractor remains up, as if stuck on the rim of the cartridge. Finger pressure has no effect, but a light tap with my pocket knife makes the extractor drop and engage, ejecting the round.
I think I'll order that video from Steves Gunz. Don't really want to send the rifle off, and if that video is as good as people say, it's worth it to do other work on that rifle.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Photos attached...
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1 hour ago, King Medallion said:
FYI, All are made by Uberti, Cimarron is the Importer.
Yes. I was just trying to differentiate, as some people like the nuances of Cimarron.
But thanks for the clarification.
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22 hours ago, Cumberland Mtn John SASS#40593 said:
Bisley Joe,
I'll take both 38s.
Send me the particulars.
Cumberland Mtn John
Howdy. Just sent you a PM. Sorry for the late reply. It's been a hectic day.
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Yes, the 45 is a Cimarron. The .38s are Uberti.
WTS 45-120 and a lot of extras
in SASS Wire Classifieds
Posted
Thank you for remembering!!!
I am sitting here in sadness. I have to pay for work on my truck, like a new diesel, coming up. Damn it.
But again, thank you!!!