Smokestack SASS#87384
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Posts posted by Smokestack SASS#87384
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No, you must use load data for the powder you are using.
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The real failure is what we have allowed the game to become. I do not even like double taps but more and more it seems a 3 target array is routine with double, triple, quadruple taps. But 9 rifle shots on the same dump target? Ugh, and sigh. This is not cowboy action shooting. This is some kind of contest to see who can toggle their rifles and pistols the fastest. I so regret this direction we have turned to, taken the wrong fork in the road. No wonder our numbers continue to plummet...
There are still a few clubs which have refused to evolve with the game. They are struggling to survive due to lack of shooters interested in what they offer. I am not saying your opinion is wrong, but you are certainly in the minority.
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I see it as a straight Boolean logic sequence... if shooter causes a target to not be available, then shooter doesn't get the full consideration of the "target failure" alternatives...
I.e.: in a plate rack scenario... just the opposite of the OP, 5 plates for five shots, then a dump plate for 5 shots... if one of my first five shots causes multiple plates to fall, I would continue to shoot where they "were"... and then with the 2nd pistol shoot the dump for 5 shots. I wouldn't expect to shoot the dump plate for any of the 1st pistol shots.
To be a contrarian, let's take a 3 target Nevada sweep for 10 shots... on the 1st pass, target 2 falls to the ground. THAT's a target failure... I then have the option to "shoot where it was", or shoot an alternate target... In the case of the plate rack, the target operated as intentioned... fell when hit with a bullet... not a "target failure".
Well I can only find "shoot where it was" and "engage an alternate target" in one place in the rule book and they are literally in the same sentence. I would assume that they are either both an option or neither an option.
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I like that. Think I'll borrow it. Thanks.
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As in the previous "WtC?", it is not "target failure" if the SHOOTER is responsible for the unavailability of the target.
Shooter should not get any time advantage for KDing the target for the 10th shot & simply continuing the dump on the stationary target.
So shoot where it was would not be an option in this case either? The 10th pistol shot was a miss and caused a P all at once? Not trying to be a PITA, I just don't understand this line of thinking. If shoot where it was IS still an option in this scenario, can you please direct me to the section of the rule. Oils that covers this besides the target failure section? Thanks.
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The way we shot it yesterday was first pistol double tap outside, three singles across targets 2, 3, 4 of the 5 targets. second pistol start on target 2, singles across targets 2, 3, 4 and double tap target 5. When you end you have put two rounds on each target, double tapping the outside targets. I don't know if it is gunfighter friendly. For me it was very enjoyable.
I am sure the sweep must be well known by a different name, but I can't recall shooting it before. It is very elegant if you think about it. It would appear to be very fast for a five target array. The match director slowed down the stage a tad by having us shoot 6 shotgun targets.
That would be a Rattler John sweep.
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If when the shooter completed the 9 rifle targets he shot where the knockdown was it would only be a miss for the 10th pistol shot correct? Instead of shooting where it was, a shooter has the option of shooting an alternate target. I would not give them the P based on that thinking. ROII pg. 8One miss
(Pistol shot on rifle target)
One "P"
(All rifle shots HIT rifle targets...just out of sequence)
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I just sent him a message for you.
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Ok what about shooting the targets out of sequence? Would a p not be given? I would think a p for shooting the rifle knockdown with the round from the pistol I the instructions indicated 9 pistol shots on dump then 10th round on pistol knockdown. I could be wrong
Rafe
A P would only be given for shooting the correct type of target in the wrong order. When you are shooting pistols, the rifle and shotgun targets are treated the same as the berm for scoring purposes.
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Exactly right Smokestack. But, I wouldn't call it a target or prop failure. Just as when shooting a plate rack, if one falls (inexplicitly or not), shoot where it was... a free shot. BOD to the shooter!
If you look in the rule book, the part that talks about shooting where it was is under the heading target failure.
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Bet ya can't show us that in the rules...I'm gonna call a second miss on this one. The rifle kd wasn't there because the shooter knocked it down when he shot the wrong target. Therefore the "missing" target was caused by the shooters own actions. There was no target failure. And yes, self inflicted wounds are the most painful.
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The OP asked if it would be a prop failure. I used target failure to distinguish what happened from a. Prop failure which would allow for a reshoot. Target failures don't.One miss on the pistol and shoot where it was on the rifle. I myself would avoid using the use of the term 'target failure' so as to avoid having to look up in the books to see what that might or might not imply. JMO.
ROII page 8
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miss
no target failure, he knocked it down with pistol...miss is for pistol target still standing
When he got to the end of the rifle string, the target he was supposed to shoot was no longer standing, hence my use of the words target failure. It did not fail on its own but it failed to be standing when he was supposed to shoot at it. I don't believe that how it came to not be standing comes into play.
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1 miss. And a target failure.
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It's fun. 4 targets order is 1,2,2,3,3,2,2,3,3,4
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Just how big does a single stage press need to be?
Can you list how many other single stage presses this compact are made from iron and not alum?
This would work well for loading 'on the road'.
OLG
Not to take anything away from the MEC, but my Redding single stage is also an iron frame machine.
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+1 .
If you want it to spin in both directions.
Cock the hammer and remove the tiny allen screw and spring .
It will then spin both ways .
That works about 1/2 of the time. Often more modification is nessicary.
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The phantom trigger is a one piece trigger sear design. For that reason it can not allow the lever safety to work as it was designed. That is why the factory trigger is a 2 piece. The happy trigger works like a factory 2 piece but has a spring in it to remove the flop. The happy trigger will work with the lever safety.
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Mollys custom silver has made them for us and they are great.
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In my humble opinion, it's clear as it's written. Pistol-shotgun-rifle-shotgun-pistol. That is two separate pistol strings.
Stage conversations say revolvers go back to leather after the string except gun fighters.
Anything else would be covered in stage instructions, if you want to make it confusing.
I agree that it is 2 pistol strings as written. However an argument could have some merit based on the rule which says that a gunfighter may not engage a stage in a manner that other styles can not. This creates a small gray area that I have not thought about before. I would like to hear the opinion of the ROC on this one. If a gunfighter can stage his pistols and retrieve them at the end of the stage I feel like everyone else should have that option. I personally never have done that in a match and don't plan to but that is neither here nor there.
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Just make a template and have some cut from AR-500. You won't have to worry about them dimpling again.
Let's talk rifle last & Power factors ----------------
in SASS Wire
Posted
Rifle last has a likely hood to add inconsistency to scoring. It’s all good until a buckaroo steps to the line and shoots a .22 through a window.