H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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Posts posted by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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This is largely what The Pentagon Papers was.
The only recourse the victim would have would be if the info was not true. Then it's libel and/or slander.
Or, perhaps he could sue the person who hacked for theft or privacy violations, but not the newspaper.-
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Okay...
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By modern standards, one of the weirdest guns to come out of the Old West Era is probably one of the earliest repeating shotguns, the Burgess. It was indeed a "pump action shotgun," but, for reasons of patent circumvention, instead of the pump being the foregrip, the pump was in the pistol grip part of the gun. There was even a folding version that would be compact enough to fit in a large holster that could be concealed by a "trenchcoat" type garment. Although not legal for our game, it is a fascinating piece of tech from the Old West.
I have one, not the folding version, and I recently took it to a gunsmith that specializes in old guns, restoring them, or get getting them functional again, to repair a minor issue in the lockup. It's now quite perfect.
But what surprised me was when he remarked on how STRONG the action on this thing is. He was of the opinion that it could easily handle light target smokeless loads with no problem. With the proviso of shells of the proper length. (Mine has had the chamber lengthened to 2-3/4" and the forcing cone extended by a previous owner.) I was surprised at how strong he said it is. But, looking at it, the thing is indeed built like a tank. Very strong and rather beefy looking construction, and a lockup tighter than other old guns I have, and even some modern ones. I don't know that I'll ever use anything but Black in it, but it was interesting to hear this opinion from a gunsmith who make old stuff his specialty.
Anyone else out there have a Burgess? If so, what are your impressions of the strength of the gun? Thinking about the folding one that was made to withstand the action being snapped closed upon drawing it from it's holster, I guess they'd have to be pretty well solidly built to begin with.-
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8 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:
I'll advise my buddy - this classic is well out of print, the old style with no cross-bolt safety prior to Remlin. Thank you for your help.
That's an old one The cross-bolt safety actually predates Remlin. It goes all the way back to the final years of Marlin. But, if I wanted a Marlin, this is one that I'd want, a pre-safety one. But it's prolly also got a microgroove barrel, which does not work so well with cast bullets. Or so I understand.-
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5 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:
LPP
LPP?
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Mine, with a Colt Walker (reproduction) for scale.
Now THAT'S a knife!
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.38 Special is probably the most popular caliber in our sport, for various reasons that have been stated, and probably more.
So, what do I shoot?.45 Colt
.32-20 (A not at all popular one, but one that is really nifty)
.44-40.
Those are my top three calibers in order of personal preference. Why? Just because.
I also have main match guns in....44 Special
.44 Magnum
.32 S&W
.38 Long Colt
and even 56-50 Spencer.
I have these guns because I found them to be interesting and the price was right.
Notice that I don't have a single .38 Special or .357 Magnum in the bunch. Why? It just didn't interest me. It's a great caliber, but it wasn't "for me."
(Oddly, when my brother was still alive, he was never into CAS, but he always talked about how much he liked .357 Magnum. Over the years, I got him a 2nd Gen Colt, a Rossi 92 and a Ruger in that caliber when he said the Colt was too nice for a knock around gun. He always said he'd try the game some day...)
Anyway... When all is said and done, don't worry about what anyone else tells you makes for a good caliber. Go with what you like, can afford, and will enjoy. Don't get a gun because you think it'll make a good "starter" and you switch to something "better" later. Get what you want, even it takes you a little longer. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that you are in love with the idea of shooting a .45s out of a real Colt SAA. That's great. But even a used Colt will cost you a lot of money. So, you may have to get a used clone. If you do, get one that's in good mechanical condition, without regards to what it looks like. Or, if you really want to run .38's in Rugers because the Rugers are built like tanks, go for it. This is about what YOU will enjoy. Sure, you can go to a match, and people will let you try stuff. Maybe a friend will loan you some guns to try out. But in the end, you want to have fun. Since you don't have any guns yet, you are wide open as to what you can obtain. But be forewarned, this game has the potential to make your gun collection GROW at an exponential rate.
Take it with a grain of salt, and happy shooting!-
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Okay, now that people have seen a plethora of letters from different sources, who do people think offer the "best" letter? I put best in quotes so you can judge according to your own criteria as you consider cost, time, details, and so forth.
Personally, I think S&W gives the best quality for the price. I also like what the Paul Mauser Archive provides. Ruger's are good for the price point, but not much else. -
46 minutes ago, Assassin said:
Themes are OK, don't force folks into what you think is cute or funny. Some folks have never seen Blazing Saddles (myself), Lonesome Dove, Josey Wales. Many don't know of Tom Horn, Butch Cassidy, John Wesley Hardin, etc. The younger shooters we're trying to capture have no idea about most themes, except for what they've seen on video games. After 28+ years I go to shoot not think about frivolity.
Well, that's why when you announce the theme, you say what it is, what can be done to "participate" and emphasize that it is completely optional.
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Thanks!
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1 hour ago, Ol Number4 said:
Yes, the two day warm up shoots will be Friday and Saturday before EOT.
So that would be 21st and 22nd of February, right?
Is it a 2 day shoot, or two 1 day shoots back to back?
Do you have to pre-register, or just show up?
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Will the club that holds what it called a 2 day EoT Warm Up match in Tombstone, Arizona be doing it again next year? Depending on timing cost, I may wish to do that instead. Not the cost of EoT, I know that's expensive and would absorb it. But the cost of HOTELS in Phoenix at that time is.... Rather expensive. It'll all come down to what I can afford.
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5 hours ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:
Take No Prisoners is on there too, under the Long Range tab.
This sounds like fun. I just hope the targets are big enough to see!
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3 minutes ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:
The Lever Shotgun starts empty. We require 6 rounds in the pump for the same reason we require 6 rounds for a double that only holds 2. It's called a reload.
Thank you for the clarification. Makes sense.
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1 minute ago, Michigan Slim said:
Interesting question. My grandpa started deer hunting by shooting .45 Colt from a single shot .410. PLEASE, save your opinions on it. Poor folks doing what they had to do to survive. b
So, the .410 is smaller than .45-70. A chamber sleeve, maybe? I'll have to measure the rim diameters to see if the bolt might be compatible.
I figure at the very least, it'd require a rebarrel and perhaps a different bolt.
Might be easier to just go with a smoothbore .45-70...-
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14 hours ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:
Take No Prisoners (description on EOT website) – 16 rounds
Where? Can't find it.
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14 hours ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:
- Pump Shotgun – Start Empty – 6 rounds
- Pump Shotgun – Stoked – 6 rounds
- Lever Shotgun – 6 rounds
Is the Lever Shotgun Start Empty, Stoked, or both?
Why do you require 6 rounds in a gun with a 5 round magazine? -
I know it can be done with the Winchester 1894, they actually make one. But would it be theoretically possible for someone to make a .410 shotgun out of the Winchester 1886? My mind thinks it would be. I doubt anyone ever will, and I am not looking to have one custom modified, it was just a random pondering.
For that matter, I suppose it could be asked of the Marlin that can handle the .45-70 or .30-30, or any other lever/pump gun that could do so. -
1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:
"Jose" Wales?
Ugh... My enemy the typo beast strikes again!
Lotsa interesting ideas. I am gonna try to go to the local Josey Wales Shoot, I've always wanted to try it.
I even know what guns I'll use...
Left pistol, converted Walker. Right Pistol, converted Dragoon. Rifle 1, my "Big Iron" Rifle 2, New Frontier Buntline. Shotgun... If it's a real shotgun, prolly my Parker. If it's a 5th pistol, Uhm... Probably a converted 58 Remington.-
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What do people think of a "Themed Shoot."
Now, anyone can shoot a "Themed Shoot" according to standard SASS rules. But, if the shoot is advertised as a "Themed Shoot" then shooters have the option of shooting according to the theme, and those that do get bragging rights for doing so.
So, what would the themes be? Well, that would up to the discretion of the match director, but it could be just about anything. The idea occurred to me when I saw a shoot advertised as being a Jose Wales shoot, where shooters had the option of shooting it Josey Wales style if they wanted too. That's a "Theme." Or if you make the theme "The 1880's" you would have to shoot at least one gun that was designed in the 1880's. Maybe. This is just a random idea. I am sure creative match directors could actually come up with all kinds of viable ideas.-
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Addendum for Henry Repeating Arms.
I can confirm that they don't do letters, but if you e-mail them with the model and serial number, they will confirm date of manufacture.
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Ever since I saw one on the cover of Guns of the Old West, I've wanted a Paterson converted to .38 S&W...
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For what it's worth, I am looking into the FOIA Stuff, and other options from Springfield Research Service. I did a FOIA request for an M1D I bought from the CMP a few years ago because I thought it was the most "interesting" of my military rifles. As far as SRS goes, in keeping closer to our game, I may request a letters for my Krags. Both of them look like they have been modified, and if SRS is still providing, based on what is on their website, they may have records of these modifications. If and when I get anything, I'll report it here, amending in a separate post the Springfield Armory Government entry. There looks to be the following options....
1. Basic Letter for $50 for subscribers, $95 for non subscribers.
2. Basic Letter with Sales Information for $65 for subscribers $110 for non subscribers.Then there is the Detailed Letter.
For no charge, if you are a subscriber you can send in your serial number and they will tell you if they have any data for the detailed letter.
The cost for the Detailed Letter is $175 for initial research, plus another $100 for additional research. Detailed letters are for subscribers only.
For the cost, I don't think I'll go for any detailed letters, but it's clearly worth subscribing to get the discount on the Basic ones. I'll look into this more once my subscription is verified.
Can I request that this thread be pinned? Others in the future may be curious on how to get a factory letter from whoever, and it's all collected right here.
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6 hours ago, watab kid said:
i commend you on wanting to ltter everything you have and your families - ive always felt itr wasa a great thing for collectibles and rare items - so there are maNY OF MINE THAT ID NOT SPEND THE MONEY ON TO LETTER , it is an expense that mostly you cannot be recouped , there are a few that id go for in my accumultion but many id not waste the effort on ,
Yes, this was an expensive undertaking. I can't deny that. Perhaps the cost of 2 or 3 nice Cowboy type guns. But, I felt it was worth it just to have the documentation. It enhances the collection, even if it doesn't enhance the value. If I had it all to do over again, I would have been saving all my receipts and things, and lettering every gun as soon as I bought it. That's something I'd recommend to everyone. There's just something "fun" about looking at a sales receipt from a gun shop that has been gone for 20 years that says you got a band new SAA for $400.00!
In the case of antique and even C&R type firearms, having papers that prove their age and status is valuable too. And remember, everything you own becomes C&R when it hits 50 years, so, that's worth keeping in mind. (Aside in just 12 years, EVERY transferable machine gun will hit at least 50 years of age and become C&R! While still subject to NFA 34 rules, if you have the C&R FFL, you'll be able to cross state lines with them, without permission!) I do think that in some cases, the letters are way overpriced. (Colt!) Now, it is true, perhaps, that everything Ruger has is in a database, while Colt may have to search through dusty old ledgers to get the info, some sort of a premium is legitmate, but charging 80 dollars for a Police Positive and $300 for an 1860, in those same ledgers, is kind of extreme. The way that say, Smith and Wesson offers general info about the model before getting into the specifics on your gun, and notes anything else they might know about the gun at no additional charge, is a big plus in their favor. Other providers run the range from bare bones to the more fleshed out presentation. It is what it is, I suppose.
To me, having a letter that enhances resale value is a moot point, but I do believe that having the documentation add a bit of legacy to them for my heirs some day. I get a real enjoyment of seeing my father's signature on a Mass State registration form, for example. Or his name on a hand printed bill of sale. Even a cash register receipt adds something, so yeah, keep all that useless paperwork. You'll never regret doing so, and might regret it if you didn't.
And if I ever get around to getting a Mini-14, not only will I letter it, I'll be sure to save all the gunsmith receipts for when then customize it to make it truly look like a miniature M-14. But what do I know?-
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Burgess Grip Pump Shotgun
in SASS Wire Saloon
Posted
Given when they were made 2.5" shells are likely, just like a Winchester 1887. The gunsmith I bought it from did say he had lengthened the chamber and forcing cone to make it save for 2.75" shells. He also did say light smokeless was okay.