H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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Posts posted by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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I have been told by one gunsmith that some internal parts of an Uberti can be made to fit in an original. It might take a lot of work, but it can be done.
By the same token, he also told me that many internal part of the original Model 3's are identical to same sized Merwin & Hulbert's and a couple of other makers who essentially copied the action of Smith from behind the cylinder. In fact, he used S&W parts to fix my M&H. Or maybe it was the other way around... I don't remember for sure. -
7 hours ago, Griff said:
I have a Great Western derringer in 38 S&W. It's easy enough to reload and keep it pointed downrange, just grip the bottom of the barrels in the off-hand, unlatch it, swing the grip up, push out the empties, then insert 2 new cartridges, swing the grip back down and latch. I've only shot it duelist... there ain't enough gun to use two hands, (being the same size as the Remington derringer it was copied from).
Sigh....
Every time you mention this derringer, I find myself wanting to buy it from you. But I know it's not for sale.
I've always wanted a derringer in this caliber. They exist, but are very hard to find.
This is my derringer, an RG17. Surprisingly well made considering the company's reputation for cheapness. And accurate enough to shoot soda cans at 15 paces. It's a .38 Special. I load it the same way Griff described, and shoot it that way too.
The weird safety is not all that annoying, but does also have a traditional half cock position. Which it must be in to safely load! Other than the safety, it is very much similar to an original Remington in style and size. It was my father's.-
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The more we all look at it, the more evidence comes out that it is a Frankengun of unknown origins. That serial number on an inserted piece of metal raises many questions in my mind about legality.
That being said, everyone should own at least one Frankengun. They are quite fun to own. -
I have both long and short barrels, and have come to prefer the longer ones. I find I can acquire the target faster and they extra weight makes them more steady.
That being said, I am very much in the minority here.-
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Just for giggles. I looked up the serial number on Colt's website, and this came back...
106461 1860 ARMY (.44 CALIBER WITH NAVAL ENGAGEMENT SCENE ON CYLINDER) 1863 So that would lend credence to the notion that it's an original with a modern conversion.
I'd say it's a unique piece, and worth having. You say the cylinder is .38 Special, that also tends to support a "modern" conversion. If it were factory, it'd likely be .38 Long Colt. and the Italian proofmarks on the cylinder prove that it's not the original cylinder
Get a letter.
Some of these conversions are quite fascinating. I have an 1860 that was converted to something else at one point, and has been converted AGAIN to .32 S&W with a new barrel, but Colt has no records of the conversion(s).
This gun might be okay for use with smokeless since the cylinder is modern, but I'd still stick with .38 Long Colt/black powder to be safe.
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12 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:
Umm, as opposed to some of your . . . Ummm . . . "other" . . . . Notions?? 🙄😇
What can I say? I find it amusing to talk about highly speculative ideas. Even if nothing comes of them, they can be entertaining.
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Well, I got out my cartridge measuring caliper thingee and started doing some measurements. While there might be enough room to make the chambers bigger, the rim is a bit too large to fit. So in other words, it wouldn't work.
I suppose the other option of just lengthening the chambers for the .45 BPM would be a proven course of action, but I doubt I will do so.
This really was just a bizarre notion from the get go! -
9 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:
I think Hovey Smith deepened the chambers to take 460 S&W Magnum case.
Yeah, that's .460 BPM. (Black Powder Magnum)
I wondering about other esoteric "possibilities." -
Here's an odd qeustion.
If you have a .45 Colt conversion cylinder for a reproduction Walker and you were to ream the cylinders to fit, and enlarge the bore to .458", could said pistol handle .45-60?
There looks to be enough room for everything to "fit."
I know there is no real reason to DO this, especially considering the existence of .45 BPM, I am just wondering if it's possible. -
11 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:
I have never used Trail Boss, don't have any in my stash - so why is it so highly rated for CAS? NOT trying to start a war, seriously asking. I use AA#2 and ZIP right now for handgun loads.
What is Trail Boss useful for?
.32 S&W
.32 S&W Long
.32-20
7.65 Nagant
.38 Short Colt
.38 S&W.38 Long Colt.
.38 Special
.357 Magnum
.44 Special
.44-40.44 Magnum
.45 ACP.45 S&W
.45 Colt56-60 Spencer
.30-30
.30-40
7mm Mauser8mm Mauser
.30-'06 (Bolt Actions. Have not tried it in the Garand)
.45-60
.45-70 (Trapdoor safe)
I have personally used it in all of these calibers, and I am sure it can be used in many more. It is a very useful caliber. And, it is basically impossible to overcharge with it. A double charge of a minimum charge will overflow the case. And, given it's bright color, it is very easy to see that there is power int he case.
Someone mentioned the Kaboom Club.
THIS is impossible with Trail Boss...
Neither of my friends was hurt using these, thank the Lord. But it more or less did ruin our outing at a big shoot. As near as I can guess, a double charge of Win321 is to blame. That, and my own stupidity.
I want Trail Boss Back for these two reasons alone.-
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It occurs to me that this same side match could be done with a pocket pistol instead of a derringer.
It also occurs to me that, with the derringer, a reload is not a good idea. (With the pocket pistol, there is no need.) I did shoot a derringer side match once that had a reload, and I didn't care for it.
It's good to get feedback on ideas. That way, if anyone decides to try it, the basic premise is already discussed and perhaps modified to make more sense.
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Oh man! I sure hope it's available here in the US soon! I DO so miss this stuff. It's a great powder. I use for everything from .32 S&W to .45-70 and 56-60 Spencer.
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That's a good looking .22. Do you run CB Shorts in it? Those are essentially not much more than the primer.
Or is it simply retired?
I did look a little more into the .32 Centerfire one I found, but it was described as "not locking up tight" so I passed on it. That, I know if it did lock up tight, would be a BP only gun. -
Ah, that's, okay, Hoss. In a way, I was referencing something that's probably somewhat obscure to most of us so it's understandable make the mistake. I've got a few top breaks myself, from pockets to full size. But no tip ups.
I believe I remember John Carradine used one in Stagecoach, but I'd have to check...
Ah yes, according to the Internet Movie Firearms Database it's a Marlin 1875 tip up revolver. Interesting the Marlin when that way after S&W abandoned it in favor of the stronger top break design.
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i got one of these...
https://www.mustangwoodcrafters.com/
Fantastic cart and I have never regretted the expense.-
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Does anyone shoot these, just for fun? I know some were in .22 Short, and I just saw one on Gunbroker in .32 Short CF, so some of them are, at least theoretically, capable of being fired, even if they would not be suited for our game. (Or maybe only as pocket pistols?)
I believe there was even a .44 tip up, but it was also a rimfire, so that's not really a viable shooter.
Personally, I find them to be at the very least, a visually interesting pistol. I tend to doubt that there would be much of a market for a modern replica in a readily available caliber, (.32 &W, 38 S&W or .44 Russian?) but I'd be hard pressed to pass on one if such an animal were begin to exist. (Me and, perhaps a dozen others!)
With modern steel and perhaps some tweaks to the design to strengthen it, I am sure that replicas could be made in the aforementioned calibers, but I'll not be hold my breath. Would anyone else be interested in such a gun?-
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I shall now speak something that may shock a few people. I have nothing but respect for Turnbull and the outstanding work that they do. But, in my opinion, they are overpriced and not worth the expense. There are many excellent gunsmiths out there who can do work that is comparable to theirs, but are far less expensive. IF you decide that you want to have this, or any gun, restored for some reason, I have come to feel that you are better off finding someone closer to where you are who, while pricey, will probably cost you a lot less than going to Turnbull will. I can foresee times when, depending on the gun, restoration might make sense. (By restoration, I mean much more than simple refinishing.) Ultimately, that's up to the owner of the gun in question.
And on a slightly different subject, I have never really understood why restoring a gun hurts its value. If you find, say, a 57 Chevy that is very far gone, or even fully functional but ugly, and you restore it, you have enhanced it's value. The same can be said for many other antiques and heirlooms. But if you have a gun returned to like new condition, you have "destroyed it's value." Never have understood that. The only other thing I can think of with this kind of "problem" is old coins. Oh well.-
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38 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:
Or maybe leaving it sit in a holster for a century. That one is god-awful ugly.
Hee hee hee. It is ugly. Letters to 1885. In spite of its appearance, its action is flawless. A good shooter. And, I oddly like the gold plated parts. In a strange way, it's got character. Got it in 2022 for $500 at LGS. That's something I like about old ugly guns; I can afford 'em! .44-40 btw.
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I'd leave this one alone. It's not pretty, but it's aged honestly and is still shootable. The grips are nice too. Also, it is an example of faded from it's original finish.
Now, this thing, on the other hand...
...is downright UGLY. It started out as blued with a case hardened frame. The current finish is a very bad dipped in chrome. The grips are broken and worn smooth. Parts of it have even been gold plated for some reason. This one would be a PRIME candidate for a restoration. However, before it was dipped it was over polished to smooth. All of the markings are gone except for the patent dates and serial number. So much so that if you compare it to another pistol, you can see that a lot of metal has been scrubbed off. This one is actually too far gone to restore. I actually took it to a local gunsmith who specializes in antique restorations, and he said he could do it, but he'd have to restore so much metal that it would be prohibitively expensive.
And when all is said and done, it works flawlessly and is a good shooter. So, while I may get new grips, that's all I'll do to it.
Now, if yours was as is finish wise, but not functional, I'd be more likely to do a restoration. Or, if it was not as bad as this chrome thing, but worse than yours, then yes, I'd consider restoring.
I hope this makes sense.-
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I got to thinking of the opening scene of The Shootist where John Wayne takes out the guy trying to rob him with a derringer with a non fatal, but still incapacitating shot.
This got me to imagining a side match for the derringer that is different from typical speed and accuracy ones you typically see.
A paper target with an image of bad guy, or even just a sillouette target is set at about 5 feet from the shooter.
At the beep, shooter picks up derringer from table and fires 2 shots, one handed, at the target.
"Zones" on the target are designated as "Kill" "Disable" and "Flesh Wound"
For each kill shot, you get 10 points. For each Disable, you get 5 and for each Flesh Wound you get 3 points. A miss gets 0. Most points wins. Ties broken by timer. I suppose there could be a 4 shot variant if you wanna add a reload.
Just a random thought.-
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With regard to the Marlin pump, there are some very real safety concerns, but they can be addressed to the point where the guns are safe to shoot. I won't rehash all of that, others are far more familiar with the details, I'll leave it to the experts. Suffice to say that if I could find one that passes all the safety checks, I would feel okay about shooting one. (In fact, there is a very late model one for sale locally...) Should they be SASS Legal? I wish I could say yes, but there is so much bad press, it might be "easier" to just allow the ban to stay in place.
With regard to other pumps...
Winchester 93: It can't handle smokeless powder or shells longer than 2-1/2" safely. Just like a vintage 87. Many folks who have one either use short shells, or lengthen the chamber. In either case, they use black powder, making it perfectly safe. (I have fired mine with no problems) The same procedure(s) could be used to make 93's safe to use. Should they be SASS Legal? Yes.
Burgess: I have never read of any safety issues with this gun. Should be be SASS Legal? Yes. Again, mine has been fired with no problems.
Spencer: Well, I am pretty sure that they all have Damascus barrels, which brings up THAT whole debate, but I've heard of no other issues. Should they be SASS Legal? Well.... I dunno. Are Damascus barrel shotguns outlawed in general? If not, then legal. If yes, then not legal. IF legalized, it is up to the shooter to make sure the are safe to use. Just like ALL firearms in our game.
IAC 93/97. A modern made 97 made to resemble a 93. Not legal only because it's "not a 97." It should be legal.If you allow these 4 models to be used, it also creates the possibility of modern makers making a new exposed hammer pump gun for use in our game. It would also open the door to someone like Uberti or Chiappa considering a replica of these interesting old designs, addressing any lingering safety concerns along the way. Lifting the no 20 gauge pump restriction would allow the creation of 97's in 20 gauge if they perceive a demand. None if it is likely to happen, but the possibilities are there.
These are just my opinions. I am not asking for any rule changes, just stating what I think about the existing rules.-
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A good quality gun cart is one of the best things you'll ever buy. Some of them can be quite expensive, but they are worth it. You don't wanna be carting around thousands of dollars worth of guns in a cheap cart that will batter them to death. (I exaggerate a little, but not much.) By the same token, a good, if expensive gun cart will last you a lifetime, a cheap but serviceable one will do well for a few years, and then fall apart.
Costuming can be very simple. A pair of jeans, and a long sleeve shirt are all you need. The shirt should have at least a vaguely "western" look/feel to it, but that is very open to interpretation. Technically, a hat is not required, outside of specific costume categories that require one. That said, I strongly recommend one to shield you head from fall brass. Reproduction US Cavalry Kepi hats are kinda cool, and are in some ways the old west version of a cowboy hat. You don't have to go with a full uniform. You can always claim to be a veteran who like to wear his old hat. Prices are from dirt cheap to expensively accurate replicas. But, if you go with one of those, I strongly recommend a bandanna tied around your neck to prevent spent brass falling down the back of your shirt! On the other hand, a generic Stetson never hurts, and depending on the one you get, can be surprisingly inexpensive. As far as footwear goes, you don't have to wear traditional "Cowboy Boots" if you don't want to, again excepting a specific category that requires them. Lace up boots are fine, and often more comfortable, for example. You can always add more accessories, more variation, and other shirt, pants, and hats over time if you desire.
Holsters... Go to Cabela's. You can get a pair of generic old west holsters that'll carry all of the most popular guns for, well, when I got them they were 10 bucks each. Might be around 25 today. If you ever do decide to get more fancy holsters, gunbelt and such, these can be held as backups or for loaners to a friend you bring along. Technically, you don't need a gunbelt, you can run your regular belt that holds up your pants through the loops on the generic things. Works well. (As long as you can properly tighten your belt!) Interestingly enough, while I do have other holsters, and a couple of nice belts, I still use these generic holsters unless I'm using an unusual gun that does not fit in them. I do always put the holsters on a gun belt.
Other gear... Get a nice small pouch to carry your ammo in. Trying to carry ammo in belt loops may look cool, but it's more trouble that it's worth! Other ammo carrying thingees exist, and are not all that expensive. Also, another bucket of something you can keep on your cart for spent brass is a good idea too.
Reloading is a must! If you do this more than once a year, having to constantly buy factory ammo is too expensive.
Lee dies are usually less expensive than RCBS, and IMO, of superior quality. A simple turret press'll do ya fine for .38/.357. You'll need a tumbler to clean brass, and either a scale or, even better, a powder dispenser that automatically measures out a load of the proper weight every time you empty the pan to dump the powder into the case.
One other thing, I recommend you reload shotshells as well. I know a lot of people don't, but I think it just makes sense. A good MEC press will never do you wrong. Been loading AA's for decades with the press I inherited from my Dad that's gotta be at least 70 years old, and so are some of the hulls!
Or, if you wanna get fancy, load all brass Magtech hulls, but you'll need a special press for the oversized dies. And go with the much more expensive CH4D ones, not the RCBS ones. You'll be glad you did.
A Winchester 73 will never steer you wrong, it's the most popular rifle for a reason. (Although, personally, I prefer the Lightning, but I am weird) Rugers are tanks and many will tell you they will never fail. I can't argue with that; they are exceptionally well made guns. But they don't appeal to me personally. I use real Colts when I can, Colt Clones when I must. To me, it's just more fun.
Shotguns are another mixed bag. 97 pump, 87 lever, hammerless or hammered double... Lotsa good choices and prices can range from very affordable to very expensive. Most will tell you short barrels, but there are a small number of pards who like long barrels. I have both short and long myself, but I have come to prefer long ones. The 97 is easy to master, as is the double. The 87 is fun, but has more of a learning curve.
What's the best double? Well, people argue about this all the time, and there are a lot of good ones to choose from. But if you can afford it, get yourself a Parker. You'll never regret it, and good shooters CAN still be had for a reasonable cost if you look long enough. (Believe it or not, less than a $1000 is doable. It might be ugly, but it'll still WORK.) With the SxS, I think the long barrel is even more important as the extra weight absorbs more recoil.
And that's about all I can recommend-
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On 11/24/2024 at 12:02 PM, Black Bart Sr said:
Anyone shoot Schofields in competition?
What kind of grips do you use?
Any gun work done and by who?
Do you have a 5" or 7" barrel?
How do you lighten the safety (hammer won't cock if you're touching the trigger).
I do take mine out every so often for fun.
My first Schofield is a Uberti replica in .45 Colt that I usually pair with a Colt in the same caliber. I shoot double duelist style, and the grips are the stock wooden ones that came with gun. 7" barrel on this gun, so it get's paired with a 7.5" Colt. That is, until the last time I took it out. I instead paired it with a Uberti replica of the S&W American in .45 Colt. The two guns are very different, but it didn't bother me any. No work has been done to it, and the safety thing has never bothered me.
I have more recently obtained a real S&W "Third Model" Schofield in .45 S&W. I have finally gotten all the needed stuff to load the caliber, so at at least one shoot next season, I'll use a pair of Schofields. It'll be interesting to see if the S&W rounds will chamber in the Uberti, I've read that sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.
S&W Top Breaks are fun.-
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It's really very straightforward...
The only legal pump shotgun is the Winchester 97. It was only ever available in 12 or 16 gauge, never 20, so therefore 20 gauge is not legal for a pump shotgun.
Now, it is true that the Winchester 87 was only ever chambered in 12 and 10 gauge, but there is no rule that says that the 87 is the only legal lever action shotgun. Therefore, if anyone were to theoretically make an exposed hammer tubular magazine 20 gauge lever action shotgun, either an 87 or something else, it would be, at least theoretically, legal.
Why? Because those are the rules as written. We may not like them or think they should be different, or think they are fine as is, but they are the rules and we "agree" to play by them in this game.
American Western Arms - The AWA Peacekeeper - anyone else have a pair
in SASS Wire
Posted
What all did AWA make? Obviously from this thread, they made SAA clones, and over the years, what I have read here about them has been generally positive. I of course, know they made a Lightning rifle, and while experience has been excellent, the general consensus seems to be that they were hit or miss.
Did they make anything else?
I've read about the lawsuit from Colt and stories of (mis)management, and conflicting stories of how they got the parts, but I am just wondering what they made.