H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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Posts posted by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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A few thoughts.
It has been said that SASS is more Old West Fantasy than Old West Historical Reenactment. This is very, very true, and I prefer it that way. There is NCOWS for people who are more into historical accuracy, and that's a good thing too. I think both approaches are valid one. That being said, there is no reason why, within SASS, you can't be as historically accurate as possible, if that's what you want to do.
Given the fantasy aspect of our sport, I think some things that are no allowed, should be, like the Mare's Leg. I also think that there should be a place for anything that existed prior to 1900 in our game, even if it is just a side match. There are some things that I think can be main match legal, but aren't, and if they come up, I will discuss them, but I try not to start the discussion on them.
Specifically on shotguns, while I do think that "preloading" the 87 and the 97 as if it were the same as a rifle, would give those guns an unfair advantage, and it should not be done. The Handbook does say that if the stage directions allow for it, both of the repeaters can be fully loaded on the clock. Over the years. I have seen stage directions that so allow for it exactly twice. I personally feel that the stoking of the repeaters, ON the clock, should always be allowed. And the funny thing is, good shooters with both of them probably won't do it, as they've gotten very good on single loading.
Generically, which is better, the SxS or the 97? Eh, in the hands of an expert or even an average shooter, I don't think either has an advantage.
Finally, I am in respectful awe of some of fastest shooters. I think it's great that they have so mastered their skills. Knowing I'll never compete at that level, I try to have fun in different way. Note: Competing for the belt buckle is fun too. I just mean there are different ways to enjoy the game. For me, it's trying from a clean match every time, or using different and/or unusual guns from time to time. Now, there are some guns I am better with than others, and if I really wanna try, especially if it's at one of the bigger shoots that recognizes more than just the top 3 in a particular category, I'll use them and try my darndest to win something. And, believe it or not, I have. I choose to believe that the time I won 3rd place in the category I was shooting had more than 3 people in it.
Anyway, use what you have/like/want to use. Have fun, whatever that means. Don't worry about the various details that seem to be off for whatever reason. When the opportunity arises to talk about those things, do so. Even if they never change, there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion from time to time.-
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29 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:
Beautiful guns. And to make sure my earlier post isn't misunderstood, what I meant to say was that if you can efficiently shoot revolvers with different weight and balance (which many people do) than simply blued vs. stainless is a no-brainer.
Sure, that makes sense.
I just like to point out all the weird things I do from time to time. And I freely admit that a lot of it is unusual.
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1 hour ago, Diamond Jake said:
I would think that the hardest "miss match" to deal with is mixing guns with different feel, such as a Vaquero with a Pietta or a Schofield with a SAA.
Hmmm....
I often pair this...
With this...
I pair them because both are antique .44-40s.
Hmm... I don't seem to have a pic of the Colt with the new grips I put on it. Simple one of the same type.
Now, I shoot double duelist style, so the fact that they are different does not bother me. But I will admit that last year when I was at an Iron Match shoot, (4 pistols, 2 rifles, lotsa shotgun) that I was using three Colts and a Schofield. Right hip pistol was in the right hand. Left hip pistol was in the left. Staged Colt I picked up with the left, and then staged Schofield was also picked up with the left. After shooting 2 Colts in a row, switching to the Smith did feel awkward. I can see how someone who only shoot with one hand or the other could find shooting two so radically different guns to be confusing. -
9 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:
Yea but it’s kinda cool especially when they’re Colts! Of course not exactly, one is a 5 1/2 and one is a 4 3/4” also one is a second gen and one is a third gen.
Oh yeah... Matching barrel lengths are also very over rated.
So, you can go long and short, or different finishes on short.
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Only 10 inches? Well, I guess...
My own Buntline is a 12" It is a great pistol for long range side matches.
But it is also a lot of fun to use it in a main match.
Especially when pairing it with the matching Sheriff's model. To be honest, I have used the two of them together more often than the other two.
And when I have matching holster and people are expecting another long barrel thing to come out, and instead the short one does, people say, "WHAT?" -
4 hours ago, Timothy said:
Sounds plausible, and where the heck would you get a 38sw barrel to fake one?
That's why I think it must be factory original, in at least SOME fashion. I doubt Colt had spare barrels lying around, and having one made would have been next to difficult at best. To say nothing of the cylinder!
I seem to have an affinity for rare and unusual configuration guns. It's a curse, because finding them is difficult, expensive, or both. Sometimes, you can find a good deal, but when the pool is so limited to begin with, it becomes that much more of a challenge.
I have seen photos of standard Bisleys, flattop Bisleys, and flatop SAAs in the caliber, but can't recall seeing one in a standard SAA. And to the mix that Colt apparently also chambered some for .38-44, but apparently just marked those as .38 S&W, and it gets even more convoluted.
Need to start a club for the 63 folks who have one of these! -
3 hours ago, CitadelGrad08 said:
Does anyone else mix and match colors of their revolvers or would one blued and one stainless look weird?
Good question.
What do you think of my answer?
These are about as close to a matched pair that I will get. The idea that your two pistols must be identical is a myth.-
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Another thread about installing on a Ruger got me to thinking about octagon barrels on main match pistols in a general way. Personally, I think they look wicked cool, even if, at least for the SAA, they were not a thing back in the day. Other pistols though, they had them, including some made by Colt, making the question of why not on the SAA as at least a custom option when so many other variations were available upon request, a mystery of history.
But let that go. As I said, octagon pistols just look really nifty. So, who else agrees with that assessment, and are you willing to share with us images of what you have? They can be factory, or after market customization. Heck, even some pocket pistols had them, adding an extra layer of interest to those smaller things. And either Taylors or Cimarron, I forget which, maybe it's both, are marketing an SAA clone with them now.
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8 hours ago, Timothy said:
Records show 10 bisleys made in 38sw very cool regardless
Fascinating.
I did contact Colt to get a letter for it in my name. They still insist it left the factory as a .44 according to their records. In this case, I think the records are probably wrong. (It can happen, especially back then.) If it is converted, it was changed over 100 years ago, the coloring and other factors are just too perfect for it to be a more recent change. But I also find it hard, but not impossible, to believe that someone would change to what even then was an obscure caliber. If it was changed, it was changed at the factory.
At least, that's all what I choose to believe.
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As promised.
.38 S&W Vintage
.44-40 Cheyenne Cartridge Box
I left the overscan around it. If you want, I can try to trim that out. -
On the one hand, I don't shoot my oldest guns every time.
On the other hand, there are getting to be some guns that, by default, are almost all that old.
Any Winchester 73 is over 100 years old.
I'd guess that at least half of Winchester 92s are that old.Any Marlin "prior" to the 94 is, and a good number of them are as well.
The majority of Winchester 97s are over 100.
All Winchester 87 are not only over 100, they are all antiques.
Most of your 1st Generation Colts are over 100.
Most of your classic doubles, Parker, LC Smith, Ithaca, Fox, etc, are either there, or getting there.
I see all of these from time to time at the range, and not only when I am using them.
The list goes on.
Just based on what I see other people actually using, a lot of these Old Timers get at least occasional use. And it's a lot easier to get one that you might think. Heck, until very recently, I didn't realize just how OLD some of the guns in my collection really are. I mean, I "knew" they were old, but for some of them I didn't know how old. And when I found out, I was really impressed by some of them. One hundred year old plus guns, just as shootable as the day they were made. Some may not look all that great anymore, but they are mechanically sound. This is testament as to just how good some of those old time makers were at their job. To be honest, I'd put my 113 year old 1911 against a brand new Colt any day of the week. Time marches on.
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Duke's pic of the Cheyanne Cartridge box showcases something that was really great, but gone.
Buffalo Arms has a few boxes still in stock, but I forget which calibers.I do have one box of theirs on .44-40, and I have some old timey .38 S&W boxes, as well as a 12 Gauge all brass box.
I will post scans of what I have after work tonight. Just a proviso, some are in better shape that others.
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10 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:
I'd have two rifles that would qualify. I'd have to buy two pistols and a shotgun. Sounds interesting, but not worth the money for me to participate.
I can see how that might put some people off. To be honest, I figured it would be of more interest to people who already had qualifying guns.
Of course, it would also offer a valid excuse for some to buy more guns, and we all need more excuses to do that!
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Here's an idea for a special style of shooting. Notice that I said style, not category. This is because anyone shooting this style can shoot it while shooting in their already existing category. It would be a purely "self identified" style with no standing and serve no purpose other than to be fun for the people who want to do it.
I call it, Old Timer Style. Contrary to what you may think, this is not an age based style, at least not as far as the shooters are concerned. Theoretically, even Buckaroos could shoot Old Timer Style.
It's really very simple; all guns used, while still main match legal, must be over 100 years old. Not antiques (unless you want them to be) just over 100. I have a feeling that many of us could qualify without even trying. Anyone with an original Winchester 73 has a rifle, for example. In fact, there is a good chance that any original Winchester could be that old. Same for vintage Marlins. Same for First Generation Colts. Same for a LOT of shotguns that I see on the range. So it is doable.
You get nothing for shooting this way, other than the fun of saying "Lookit all my old timer guns!"
I propose that those who are so inclined to shoot this style do so! In fact, maybe I'll head over to Badges of the West and order a custom star that says "Old Timer" on it and encourage anyone who wants to try it get one just like it.
Could be fun.
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1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:
???
Now I'm the confused one...... why can't .38 Spl or .357 be trimmed shorter??
It can, just not to .38 S&W. .357 Magnum made shorter is .38 Special. .38 Special made shorter is .38 Long Colt. .38 Long Colt made shorter is .38 Short Colt.
.38 S&W is a completely different animal.
.38 Short Colt
Case type rimmed, straight Bullet diameter .375 inches (9.5 mm) for original heeled bullets, .358 inches (9.1 mm) for some modern loads Neck diameter .379 in (9.6 mm) Base diameter .379 in (9.6 mm) Rim diameter .445 in (11.3 mm) Rim thickness .060 in (1.5 mm) Case length .765 in (19.4 mm) Overall length 1.2 in (30.48 mm)
.38 S&W
Case type Rimmed straight Bullet diameter .361 in (9.2 mm) Neck diameter .3855 in (9.79 mm) Base diameter .3865 in (9.82 mm) Rim diameter .440 in (11.2 mm) Rim thickness .055 in (1.4 mm) Case length .775 in (19.7 mm) Overall length 1.240 in (31.5 mm) Primer type Small pistol
Very similar, but not the same. .38 S&W is ever so slightly larger. It will not fit in the chambers of the Short Colt to Magnum family.
.38 Short Colt will chamber in a .38 S&W, but it won't fit. It'll be rather loose. It is slightly lower pressure, but, it just feels like a bad idea to me on several levels.
Now, I will admit that a few times when I am sorting out my .38 S&W brass to clean and reload that there has been a random Short Colt mixed in with it that seemed to sufffer no ill effects, but I just don't wanna go there.
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There is something about a revolver with an octagon barrel that just looks rather nifty. Interestingly, there were guns made back in the day that had them. Even by Colt, but the SAA was not one of them. So having a modern made one that does, even if it is a clone, or an inspired by gun like the Ruger is quite enjoyable.
Doesn't Taylors market an SAA clone with one now?
But let that go.
Those Rugers in this thread are very good looking. I find it curious that it's not a more common option than it is, or that it remains a custom one. -
12 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:
What?? After they develop neck cracks, you spend an inordinate amount of time trimming them down, reaming them, and making them into .38 S&W brass!
???
Well, I don't load, I assume, 38 Special or .357 Magnum all that much, but you can't trim either to .38 S&W. You could trim them to .38 Short Colt, but that seems to me to be far more trouble than it's worth.
When my .45 brass splits, it SPLITS. I don't just get a neck crack, I get a gash in the case from mouth to almost the rim. No point in doing anything BUT throwing 'em out.
Although, I have heard tell that there are those who horde their split brass, and then when it reaches a certain amount the melt it down and sell it for scrap metal.
As someone who hordes his change without spending it so he can have an extra $1000 every 18 months or so, I suppose I could be patient enough to do that.
Maybe.-
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2 hours ago, Yankee Bones said:
All the pervious advice has been fantastic, so I only have one point to make that I didn't see. Maybe it was made and I missed it.I was given this advice when learning to play guitar; The best one for you to buy is the one that makes you pick it up and play.
If you're after speed and the fastest times only, then there's plenty of great advice above by great shooters. But make sure you try the Scofield's. While they may not be the fastest, they may speak to your soul. That's why I shoot Kirst Konverter 1851 Navy clones and a 1887 lever shotgun. They're my favorite and I don't care how slow they go.
Bones has an excellent point. And it's one that I agree with whole heartedly. Above all else, get what you enjoy using. Whatever it is might not be the "best" possible thing to use from a generic perspective, but it just might be perfect for you.
Consider the following...
The general consensus is that an 18 to 20 in barrel is the best choice. I run just not a 30" 97, but a trap model. Why, because I have more fun that way. Well, to be honest, I did start with the 20" 97, and got a long barrel on just to have it, and lo an behold, I stopped not knocking down the shotgun targets when I gave it try, and never looked back. I get a lot of laughs and funny looks with that long barrel scatter gun, but it works for me. When I decide to go with a SxS, 90% of the time, it's the 30" F/F Parker, not the 19 inch cylinder bore one that was my fathers.
For rifles, I got into this game because since I was kid, I loved Winchesters, and this was a way to shoot 'em. After a few years, and when they were getting a lot of talk, I went out and got a Lightning, just to have one. Tried it, and fell in love with it. I know have four, going on five of the things in various calibers. Every clean match I've ever shot is with a Lightning, and they have displaced my beloved Winchesters in my favorite rifle place. I even have one of those super rare AWA Lightning Bolts, which is a Mares Leg version of the thing, along with a large frame model, and a small frame .22.
Now, I have S&W's, Remingtons, various Cap & Ball conversions, (real and replica) but my favorite gun remains the Colt SAA. I do enjoy shooting the others every so often, but when I wanna do my best, the Colts come out. My "best" Colts are my Dad's 3rd Gen 4-3/4" a clone with the same length barrel.
But my "favorite" ones to use are the Big Iron and the Small Iron, cuz they are just too much fun.
So get what you like and have FUN.
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2 hours ago, Black Angus McPherson said:
I use a black sharpie and put a black stripe on the bottom of the shell. Load the box and take a swipe across the bottom of the shells with the Sharpie. One look into a box of shells tells me if it's a BP loaded shell. No need to pull out a cartridge to look at the bullet. Of course, I also mark the box with the load and put a note in the box on top of the cartridges with the load and date. If I somehow manage to lose a shell and later find it on the floor the black stripe tells me if it's a BP round.
Angus
Yeah, I do that too. That's what I was taking them from the bench to the table to do. Ugh.
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I have never attempted to keep track of how many times I reload a particular piece of brass. Like others have said, I just reload 'em till they split, then I throw 'em away.
And while we're at it, I've got some AA that are over 50 years ago that were first purchased by my father, and he was a trap shooter, so they've been reloaded, many, many times.-
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Hmm... Good points all.
To be honest, I hadn't thought of the shooter being unfamiliar with the third pistol, I figured they would be using another one of their own. Also the ammo would be staged there with it.
But, it is worth raising the question of the shooter being unfamiliar with the third gun if it was one that has to be borrorowed/provided.
I suppose it could be staged loaded to eliminate part of the issue. That does take away the oddness, but when all is done and said, more shooting is the goal, not more variation.I like this. Bringing up aspects that were not thought of help you to better think through the idea and make it better/more practical, or understand it is unworkable and needs to be shrugged off.
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8 hours ago, John Kloehr said:
For this game, a common mod is to reverse the two triggers (would be unnecessary for a lefty) so the (one) trigger finger can fall from the front trigger to rear trigger quickly.
Actually, it is necessary for a lefty. I have found, shooting a double left handed that my trigger finger will slip off the front trigger and pull the back trigger upon recoil. So, I shoot the rear trigger first. Just to see, I shot a round right handed, and did not have the problem. So, I suppose I could swap my triggers. It's not hard to do, but I just haven't bothered.
As far as holding it with a finger on each trigger, the only time I do that is when I particularly stubborn known down won't go do, and I get so frustrated that I give it both barrels.And, as an aside, I am almost done with my underloaded mouse far loads. I just may do it anyway to burn through them more quickly!
Oh, by the way, when it comes to giving it both barrels...-
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Okay, just to be clear. This is not a reload. It's a loading a staged third pistol.
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On 7/1/2026 at 8:38 AM, Cholla said:
Don't let IR fool you. He uses the 1873 musket to save ammunition. All he has to do is use the muzzle of the gun to tap the targets!
I have been accused of that with the shotguns I use. I generally prefer an 97 or a Parker with 30" barrels.
Is balance actually a bad thing?
in SASS Wire Saloon
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It wouldn't. But a 97 loaded with 5 in magazine would.
In other words, all shotgun loading on clock, and allow magazine stuffing on every stage.