H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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Posts posted by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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As Cholla said, the original smoothbore 86's were made for exhibition shooting.
Me, well, I think a smoothbore 86 in .45-70 would be "better" than a 94 in ,410 for "reasons."
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Hi, everyone.
I have a desire to obtain a Winchester 1886 in .45-70, smoothbore. What do people think is the best way to get one?
Finding a real honest to goodness one that was made that way by Winchester would be great, but prohibitively expensive since only a very far few were made. So, that leaves other options...
1. Obtaining one that is otherwise fine, but having a gunsmith bore out the rifling.
2. Finding one with a shot out bore with little to no rifling left, and again, having a gunsmith polish out any thing left over and otherwise turn the sewerpipe into a shiny clean one.3. Find one of those also very rare "line guns" that were made with smooth bores. I have seen the prices on these all over the map, but they are very hard to find. And, although the ATF "deregulated" them as Short Barrel Shotguns a few years ago, I am not so sure they would be legal in Massachusetts. (Mass laws are complicated.)
Option 1 would likely be a modern reproduction. Option 2 could very well be an original. Option 3 is probably not realistic. Cost is a factor, but I know I will have to spend a few bucks.
Here's the funny part, I have seen newly made replicas advertised anywhere from $1200 to $2000 depending on maker and configuration. Interestingly, the least expensive use one I have seen is a Browning, in the $800 range, but I am less inclined to bore out one of those than an Italian copy for "reasons."Anyone have any suggestions? Am I overthinking this? Or is it just something silly I should abandon?
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55 minutes ago, Cholla said:
Do you mean W231?
Yes. Sorry about that. Mr. Typo is my enemy.
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Be careful with Win321/HP38 (They the same.)
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I use this to dispense my powder charges.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012762980?srsltid=AfmBOop5ywq7BEjU4KZoo7ilx-kTh7mVyTsXZaEOGDqp4W7HDrE0fP-H&pid=818489
Works great with Trailboss and other powders. While one charge is being measured out, I prep the next case.
They don't make this model anymore, but there must be a current something similar -
If you are having those kinds of problems with Trailboss, you should not use it. I'll gladly buy it off you for a REASOABLE price. PM me for details.
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I just realized that even though others have done so., I have not posted pics of the guns I mentioned in the first post. So...
Here's my Greener built on a Martini action
And here's my recently acquired Hopkins & Allen.
Not bad for 50 bucks!
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13 hours ago, watab kid said:
the speculation was it was a franklin mint commemorative - not engraved at colt
To me, "after market" engraving on a Colt hurts my interest rather than enhances it. People try to sell them for just a much as a factory engraved, and I don't think they are worth the many thousands the people ask. I don't know for sure if it harms or helps the value of the gun itself, it just diminishes my interest. There are engravers out there who do excellent work all on their own, but there is also "commemorative engraving" done by others that is frankly, not so good. Taking an Uberti and laser engraving it and thinking it is worth as much as a factory engraved Colt is a fallacy, in my opinion.
On the other hand, taking an Uberti and taking it to someone who can hand engrave it nicely and provide you with documentation that he did it, may be a legit way to get yourself an engraved SAA type revolver at a price you can afford. Heck, John Wayne used Great Westerns that were hand engraved in The Shootist, and by all accounts, they were two of his favorite guns.But would I have a REAL Colt engraved by anyone other than the factory? I honestly don't know.
And, occasionally, not all commemorative engraving on non-Colts is junk.
Uberti, Silver plated, hand engraved... Wanted one of these since I first saw the adds for 'em back in the day. Very well done, and the price was less than $1500.
But let that go.
I guess when it comes to non factory engraving, the best advice is, let the buyer's preference dictate what you do. Except for the obvious Colt on Colt work, it is of questionable additional value if you ever want to sell it, but if you are just trying to enhance something in your collection for fun, go for it. -
23 minutes ago, watab kid said:
how do these two cartridges differ ?
the reason i ask is i had occassion to get offered a colt SAA in 32 long colt [or so it was marked] the price was way too high to interest me so it left with its current owner , besides it was way to pretty to be one of mine
Both have the same bore size, but the S&W round was created with a bullet the same diameter as the inside of the case, like almost everything. The Colt round was created with a bullet the same size as the outside of the case, like a .22 rimfire. That means reloading the Colt round requires either heeled bullets, or hollow based ones that fit in the case.
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I have an 1860 Colt that is of Civil War era vintage. It has been cartridge converted at least twice in it's life and is now a .32 S&W Long. I'll probably use it with this rifle. I don't mind the different cartridges. To bad it wasn't converted to the Colt one though!
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I promised some pics, so here goes.
Here's the rifle...
A fairly run of the mill 92. It's got some age character to it.
Here's the original mag tube.
A close up of the back. You can see the gummed up spring and dents. Sorry about the bad focus.
And the "front" You can see that the original plug is gone. and it's been plugged with some sort of a wooden thing.
No wonder it didn't work.
I am glad I got it fixed.-
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3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:
Those bullets look great but the price is insane!
Yeah, they are pricey, but for a long time, they weere the only ones I could find. When I eventually run out, I'll search to see if I can find other\s.
But they do work well.
If only I could find a .300" 80 grain hollow base... -
8 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:
That same show also showed them "building" an 1866. Very bogus.
I vaguely remember this one. I forget the name of the show, but I remember it. A "feature" of the program was how his teenage daughter was rather prominent in their shop, wearing a very revealing tanktop. You never saw anything you shouldn't, but it felt inappropriate somehow.
Anyway, I remember the 66 episode, and I remember people here commenting after they showed the finished rifle a lot of people here shouting, "THAT'S AN UBERTI!"
Wasn't too long after that the that the show was cancelled. IIRC, there were some issues with the ATF over some of the stuff they were doing.-
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I use these from Buffalo Arms
https://www.buffaloarms.com/358-150-grain-fn-hollow-base-358150hb.htmlThey work very well with .38 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, and .38 S&W. They work equally well with smokeless of black powder.
I don't see why they would not work just fine with .38 Special.
Out of stock at the moment, but the last time I got some on "backorder" it was not long before they were available again. In fact, if I needed some, I'd give them a phone call. Sometimes they don't update their website as fast as they should.-
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14 hours ago, Whitey James said:
Is anyone carrying a derringer for SD nowadays?
My Dad often carried the one I posted the pic of above. Carried it in a small holster that he would clip to his belt. Once when a group of 4 or 5 unsavory types were being aggressive towards him as he was walking from the public parking lot to his place of work, he just smiled at them and said, "You don't wanna mess with me fellas," and pulled open his jacket. Seeing the derringer, they quickly said everything cool and walked away.
That's the best kind of Self Defense, where you don't really have to do anything.
I believe it was Jeff Cooper (!) who said, "The man with a .22 in his pocket is better armed than the man with a .45 in his nightstand at home." He was right. Swap out .22 and .45 for derringer and 1911 and you get the same concept.-
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I'll put up a pic of the gun in it's repaired state either tonight or tomorrow.
Generically, if I had obtained one of these rifles in good working condition, I would have gone the S&W conversion route. But since the only reason I got it was I was given a couple of hundred rounds of .32 Long Colt, Short Colt, and RF ammo, for free, I got the gun to shoot it.
Sadly, Lee does not make dies for the Colt cartridge so I had to get the RCBS ones.
Is is a rather interesting gun. I'm glad I have one in the collection. -
3 hours ago, Griff said:
I have a Great Western in .38S&W, about as close as you can get to a Remington. It's not anodized aluminum, it's "plumed" steel.
Sigh...
I REALLY want one of these. I'd take anything in .38 S&W, to be honest, but this is the one I want specifically.-
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If you are willing to the used route, and if you can find one, I'd not hesitate to get one of these...
This is my derringer. Well, it was my Dad's. It is surprisingly accurate, and it is a .38 Special. I sometimes use .38 Short Colts in it with good results. And from this side, it looks very much like an original Remington.
But, why did I say, "from this side," and what is it?Well...
Okay, it has a ridiculous looking and not needed safety. But let that go. I just don't use it. It's an RG17. RG has a kind of a bad rap, deservedly so for SOME of their pistols, but this derringer is actually very well made. I understand that the safety was a feature added later, (maybe because of GCA 68?) and have seen non-safety versions. I don't think this'd be a bad way to go. -
23 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:
I was thinking .38 Short Colt.
Yeah, that would be along the same lines as well. But here's a few "factors" that make me think of the S&W round.1. It's a personal favorite. Admittedly, this is a less compelling reason, but well, it is what it is.
2. Many years ago, a new cartridge was developed for use in, I think it was a derringer. It was basically a rimmed version of the 9mm. I think it was called 9mm Federal. It didn't last very long. Almost right away, someone realized that the case dimensions, except for the rim, were nearly identical to the .38 S&W and concern was expressed about putting this very much higher pressure round in old pocket pistols. I remember the article saying that with it's .356" bullets in a .360" bore that pressure was likely to not be a problem. I can't remember if the reverse problem of .361" bullets getting stuck in the smaller bore was also mentioned. But here's the kicker, the .38 S&W round will probably fit in the chamber of the 9mm rifle. The rim will make it impossible to use, and it has the "bore size problem" but I just find myself thinking, "So close!"
With regard to using the Short Colt, the only drawback I can think of is getting the ammo is kinda difficult. Reloading it is pretty easy, especially if the bore is sized for .358" bullets. No need to mess with heeled stuff. But finding brass and/or loaded ammo is not easy. Easier than .32 Colt, but still a chore. That said, I'd be happy to have a rifle in the Colt caliber. -
Every time I see a mention of these 9mm 73's, I find myself thinking, "Why not .38 S&W?"
That being said, 9mm actually makes a lot of sense. So would .45 ACP for the same reasons.
Oh well. -
Seen it, never done it. I find that those who do are impressive to watch.
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I have a curious mix of originals and replicas. Depending on how I feel any given Saturday, I'll use either.
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I recently acquired a Marlin 92 in .32 caliber for a very reasonable price. Well, the reason it was so reasonably priced is that the gun was a hot mess. It was all there, but it didn't work. The magazine tube was ever so slightly bent and missing the end cap. Rounds would not chamber. Cycling was iffy.
Oh yeah, the seller said it was centerfire, but it turned out to be rimfire.
Anyway, I took it to my favorite local gunsmith, Sergey, and he was able to fix everything. He was able to obtain some needed parts, had to make others, and was able to microweld some repairs to others. The gun was pretty beat up from over 100 years (Cody has no records, but based on my research, it was made between 1906 and 1915) of hard use.
Anyway, the gun now works just fine with either .32 Short or .32 Long Colt. Or, I suppose .32 rimfire with the RF pin installed. But finding that stuff is a non starter. I plan to use it at my first shoot of the year early next month. Now, in case you are wondering how I, a know Lightning guy, and someone who as a Southpaw is generally not interested in Marlins, while recognizing that they were well made guns back in the day, came to possess one of these rifles, it's really simple. One day, I walked into my LGS, and the owner said to me that someone gave him a few small "bins" of "collector ammo." He said he had no use for it, and it was mine if I wanted it, no charge.I said, sure. Among other things is a large handful of .32 rimfire ammo, and 2 boxes of .32 Long Colt and 1 of .32 Short Colt. WELL, I could not have all of that without a rifle to shoot it in, so, here we are.
Anyway, Sergey Llalko is my gunsmith's name. His website is https://rustbluing.com/While I have not had anything of mine "restored," just had functional problems repaired, I have seen a couple of things he has restored, and he does excellent work. He's based in Natick, Massachusetts. If you are in New England, he's worth contacting if you need something done. Tell him "Kevin sent me."
He does not call himself a cowboy gun expert, and says he's not done a lot of work for Cowboy shooters in specific, but the stuff he's worked on for me has been more than satisfactory. I recommend without reservation.-
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I have a handful of guns chambered in .38 Long Colt made from the mid to late 1800's to the early 1900's. The older ones have the .375" bore, the "newer" ones have the .357" bore.
I use a .358" 150 grain hollow base pure lead bullet in all the guns. It "fits" in the smaller bore, and the base "expands" to work in the larger one. Used to get them from Buffalo Arms, and they came with a lube that was good for both black or smokeless powder. (The bullet can also be used with .38 S&W)
I just checked, I don't see this bullet on Buffalo Arms website anymore.
That being said, .38 Long Colt, and .38 Short Colt, are interesting calibers and can be used as a "sub round" in .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolvers with no problem, as well as guns chambered for them, of course. Oddly, while I do load for the two newer cartridges, they are about the only "legal" caliber that I don't use in SASS for some reason.
Good luck, and happy shooting.
Lee Pro Auto-Disk leaks Trail Boss like a sieve
in SASS Wire
Posted
Just factor it in to your reasonable price.