Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Lube congeals in cold weather. Clean the bolt/firing pin and rest of action. Use a cold-weather lube on reassembly (CLP).
good luck, GJ
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Norfleet - Been 20 years since I had both cataracts out. Before, I was near sighted and some astigmatism. I had close vision corrected lenses put in. Wasn't more than a week later that I wished they had been done as "distance plus astigmatism" corrected.
But, I have always worn glasses and it was "same as before surgery" except it's now easier for the doc to keep me at 20/15 vision. So, I got a "good enough" result with the way I had it done. If I have to do a lot of close work, I can do without any glasses.
get 'er done, you will appreciate good vision again. Wishing you best possible results. GJ
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OK, with a J 26485 serial, that is a 2nd Model (Black Powder) Hammerless Large Frame IJ. Made in 1904. Per the Goforth listings.
I stand corrected about the trigger guard serial number. Goforth does indeed say that the beginning Letter Mark (the production lot) is omitted from the trigger guard stamping, but included on the left side of frame.
The bottom of the grip frame at one time would have had about 5 Patent dates on it, running from 1886 to 1896. But, if the grip frame was ground to match new grips (those Charter Arms), those rollmarks would be gone.
Be very cautious of shooting any smokeless powder load, even "factory" 38 S&W cartridges. The top latch and the cylinder are both fairly weak. The usual damage occurs to the top latch, where it gets battered to where it does not make a strong lockup on the latch lock post coming up under the rear sight area. And avoid using Hoppe's bore solvent (or other cleaners with ammonia) on this gun, as the nickel plating on these guns is easily bubbled and flaked. Your plating looks just about 100% - NICE. Don't often see these in this nice a cosmetic condition.
good luck, GJ
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Serial number has been posted already. IJ put prefixes on the trigger guard number if the serial number had one....and it seems complete (not partially ground off).
If the poster really wants more info, he should post a clear picture of the rib markings!
good luck, GJ
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Those leaf spring extractors can easily get bent or just flat out lose tension with no warning. I always keep a spare in my smithing/cleaning bag. good luck, GJ
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Ditto what Randy wrote! Remington STS, or Rem Nitro 27 have brass head covers (real brass, not just brass plated), so they stick less than any steel head cover hulls.
Win AA type hulls are almost as good.
QuoteI use 12 ga AA low noise, low recoil or Remington.
You already have the best shucking hulls. The European shotshells are not very likely to shuck well. You could get lucky, but probably not.
I'll also suggest having the chambers honed JUST A SLIGHT BIT. By someone who will not hone the front of the chamber more than the back - it should if anything taper out wider next to the extractors.
good luck, GJ
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7 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:
No one seems to have any of the factory records
Not true. As I have posted here several times, the definitive reference to date and define an Iver Johnson pistol is the book by W E Goforth, Has a pretty complete serial number set in it.
"Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Firearms 1871-1993 " published by Gun Show Books of Hudson WI. ISBN-10 number is: 0-9787086-0-1
Like this listing on EBay from Gun Show Books themselves:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174200101382
But don't go pay THAT price! Usually pretty easy to find used at a lower price.
I'll look up in my copy to see if the OP gave enough pictures to exactly identify the production year..
First thing right off the bat, it is a Black Powder era gun, due to the long cylinder locking slots (these are the easiest way to tell).
I read the serial as 46495 (tell me if that is not correct). That could make it an 1894 Large Frame First Model. Or an 1895 Large Frame Second Model. To tell the difference between the two, I would need the exact wording roll stamped into the rib of the barrel. It will contain the company name and several patent dates (from the 1800s). Post up the roll mark and we can find out.
Several other things are different between First and Second models, but spotting those differences involves looking at specific parts of the gun that a new owner may not really understand where to look.
good luck, GJ
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Poor barrel bedding/fit into stock would be the most common cause of vertical stringing. Not familiar with how the furniture fits to a trap door, but it should be snug around the action and may need to be snugged to hold barrel down to the forearm bedding spots. If the "barrel bands" on the stocks are not tight vertically, might try shimming the wood to tighten them up.
Hint - I just tightened the barrel bed in a Springfield 1903A3 by making a thin brass-stock shim to place on the foremost 3 inches of the stock. Tightened 100 yard groups from 3" to 1", and let me shoot second in a 300 yard match (my two poor shots were ones I pulled off the steel targets).
Lots of BP competitors use a blow tube to both cool barrel and let breath moisture keep the fouling soft. Some smokeless long range fellers use a battery-powered barrel fan between shot strings.
I'm sure that you have cleaned any jacket copper out of the barrel from previous jacketed bullet shooting - ANY copper fouling has to be removed before switching to black power rounds, for best accuracy.
True black powder burns out lead deposits - leading of barrel is not a problem.
good luck, GJ
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Since VERY few 1911s of the pre-WW I design (the time frame of the Wild Bunch movie and several others of the Mexican revolutionary period) even exist, and AFAIK, none are currently manufactured, an EXACT period correct pistol would be effectively UNAVAILABLE to any new shooters wanting to try the game.
I think you miss the point of a competitive game - that the organizing body (in this case the Wild Bunch arm of SASS) gets to set the rules and if needed to modify the rules. Which is still being done. With current emphasis on making the game MORE available to shooters, restricting to a very specific historical exactly-period-correct pistol for the Traditional category(-ies) would be a disaster to attracting new folks.
May I suggest we stop rocking a boat which (I believe), in most participants view, does not need to be upset.
Good luck, GJ
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5 hours ago, El Chapo said:
There are others as well, but all my competition guns use Tripps except for my wild bunch magazines because modern magazines are not allowed.
Magazines for WB 1911s cannot use an "extended" (padded) base plate that projects from the frame by more than 1/4". Legal added pads must be made of leather. There IS no "modern" 1911 single stack magazine that I know of (other than the base plate addition). So, as long as a 1911 magazine meets the base plate restriction, and is not extremely heavy, it's good to go.
Tripp standard 1911 magazines are quite legal for Wild Bunch - I have quite a collection of them.
good luck, GJ
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The "friend you are asking for" would be better served with light loads of Bullseye or 700-X, in my opinion. TiteGroup is not an easy powder to go real light with - it tends to burn very poorly and leave lots of unburned powder as pressures descend down below 6,000 PSI.
And, using Cowboy 45 Special cases would enable pressures to be maximized with very light loads.
good luck, GJ
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Since accuracy (or lack thereof) concerns seem to be non-existent with this (rather inane) request for info, I would guess he might be best served by loading his desired bullet starting with current minimum recommended load from Hodgdon, then working down in about 0.3 grain steps down to the point where he gets a stuck bullet among 10 rounds, then going back to previous charge step.
Hodgdon does not provide on-line data for the 165 grain bullet, so a 160 grain bullet in .45 Colt seems to be the lightest they publish.
Start there and work down, would be a reasonable approach.
That .45 Colt starting load would be, from a current search on Hodgdon's web site of loading data:
6.0 grains 932 FPS 6,000 CUP
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At Midway - extra power
At Midwest Gun Works - Ruger factory spring - even includes a strut for under $5
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/60039
At Volquartsen - a major after-market Ruger parts tuner parts
https://volquartsen.com/spare_parts/7076
At the holy Ruger site - lo and behold, strut assy which includes a main spring for $4
https://shopruger.com/10_22-Hammer-Strut-Assembly/productinfo/60039/
VERY easy to find factory and extra power Ruger mainsprings! good luck, GJ
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And, do not fall into the dangerous trap of buying a .38 S&W chambered pistol that has been "bored out" to let a .38 special chamber in it. That is a hand grenade waiting to come apart. Those pocket pistols hardly are strong enough to handle that S&W cartridge without shooting the action loose. Never try smokeless powder loads in a gun made for black powder, either.
Have seen no modern reproductions which would qualify as a SASS pocket pistol.
good luck, GJ
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That's one big reason why you want to leave some of the rim head spacing ledge on the chambers, and particularly on the extractors. And, if one is worrying about resale value on short barreled Stoegers, it's pretty negligible even without modifications.
9 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:Beveling the the chamber mouth on your shotgun will render the gun unsellable to anyone other than CAS shooters
Unsellable? So, that seems rather overblown to me. Lots of cowboy shotguns make a decent "home hallway sweeper". Chopping barrels to remove chokes has a bigger impact on resale, as it makes it unattractive for hunting purposes. good luck, GJ
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Anyone with a 5/8" ball head grinding stone and a dremel or foredom type hand grinder can. It's an easy job, and not worth sending a gun out of your local area. Hint - don't let anyone talk you into grinding the EXTRACTOR lips! Not needed. Nor is removing 100% of the case rim ledge in the chambers. good luck, GJ
If all else fails and nobody in Kansas owns a grinder, then this smith neighbors your state:
Run-N-Iron Customizing, Bertrand, Nebraska
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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:
ALL were set up to run 38s.
Yep, that is what several gunsmiths have told me, too. Sometimes riding the same horse as the winners has some merit. GJ
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I'd wager that more SASS world championships have been won with '73 rifles shooting .38 special than any other combination. From what I witnessed at over 15 EOTs. And from sorting brass picked up at about 6 championships (matches that were lost brass, recovered for fundraising) . GJ
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The exact dimensions of your carrier and it's cartridge return ramp will determine how short of an OAL will actually cycle.
But, a shorter length cartridge cycles slightly harder (more lever force required) than a longer cartridge, because more of the "second" cartridge has to be pushed back into the magazine as the carrier lifts the "first" cartridge up to the chamber. Whether a shooter is bothered by this return-to-magazine operation depends on the shooter. I never was bothered by the force needed to cycle cartridges as short as 1.450" in any of the 38 caliber 73s I put together. If you run "at speed" you will probably never feel the difference between feeding short or long cartridges.
Few folks bother with loading .357 mag brass for a short range cowboy match. It's more expensive brass. Some folks would rather use a long-seated heavier bullet (like 147 grains) in a .38 special case rather than a lighter bullet in a .357 mag case. After all, there's insignificant recoil of any cowboy load in most fairly heavy toggle lever rifles.
good luck, GJ
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Check that the small screw on the lever spring is snug. It loosens up sometimes. Or the end of the spring arm slips off the lever boss. Either thing happens,, then the spring has no tension.
Otherwise, if the gun has fired 10,000 rounds or more, consider you may need a new lever spring (or that the boss on the lever itself has been worn down by a real strong (rough) factory lever spring).
Open the side plate off the action and watch the action as you run it - you can see exactly how it works. good luck, GJ
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3 hours ago, Barrel Rider said:
A Kimber TLEll is....
Not a legal Traditional category pistol AT ALL! Sounds like (to me) the OP wants a Trad type gun. good luck, GJ
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Palo Verde is a great fellow to work with! The Norinco 1911s were very close to a Colt, and folks were upset when an import embargo on anything Norinco-made was imposed back in the (what?) 1990s.
good luck, GJ
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That model (U-1894) is news to me. Kinda strange I haven't seen an ad for the Uberti 1894 clone. Or even a news release. But there it is, on Uberti's web site. Maybe someone ought to advertise it some more....
It would be real interesting to see Uberti make it in 38-55. And having to sort out what chamber and neck and groove dimensions need to be cut in it. 🤣
good luck, GJ
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For me, it's a wildcat until an ammo maker and gun maker both agree on "what it is", and they submit the chambering to SAAMi with some chamber specs and pressure limits. And it gets accepted.
Then, tested published loading data for it is just icing on the cake.
A single-action revolver specifically sized for it is fully "wishing to die and go to Heaven." good luck, GJ
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Info needed on Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Works .38 S&W
in SASS Wire
Posted
Owl heads are on the top break Iver Johnsons. Looking toward cylinder - black powder just about ready to explode in there. Better watch out!
Away from cylinder - nothing to see, it's smokeless powder. No smoke, no flame, just a speedy slug.
Owls not on this specimen because grips were replaced with a wood Charter Arms set of grips. The gutta percha composition of the IJ grips meant they were broken if dropped or used to club an opponent. Ouch.
good luck, GJ