Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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At least it is an aluminum receiver, not the zinc alloy with a steel wrapper like the Henry 22s. Will respond better to tuning and give better lifetimes, I would guess.
good luck, GJ
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Numrich is about my last choice to get parts from, because they really put no work into checking and cleaning up parts. It's always a dice roll whether they will work.
NuLine and Old Arms of Idaho are great suppliers. They send much better parts, usually. They are a little harder to order from than Numrich, but a lot more satisfaction in my experience. Just ordered a carrier with "ledges" and shell guide from OAI and parts dropped right into my Model 12 and it tested well, running at high speed, even tipped over to the right. Without having to ease any edges on the chamber. The main improvement seems to have come from the carrier having the rear ledges on it, which the one that came with my well-used gun did not. That was also a design improvement made sometime in the middle of the production run to also help with shell feeding off the carrier into the chamber.
I don't put any supplier's old springs in, though. If they are coil springs, I use them to take measurements from and make a good one from cutting down a suitable replacement new gun spring. Springs do not last forever!
As for your right side extractor, I'd use the thick (dark) one since it was hard to remove. That means it will likely be hard to have it pop out when you are running it! If it will pivot when installed (so it can snap over the hull rim), and has a good hook shape, it will likely extract hulls.
Good luck, GJ
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Looks to be PERHAPS a Black Diamond grade Model 12. But I don't see the inlaid black diamond in the grip area. Anyway, pretty fine woodwork on it. That would explain the long fore end, skip checkering on butt and a grip cap. Definitely a higher grade model 12.
And it is NOT a Model 25, since this one has the take-down barrel. Nor is it a featherweight Model 12.
Might want to post up the serial number (with last three digits starred out). And any markings on the barrel.
Make sure it is not marked as a 3" chambered Duck Gun. Those are hard to run in Wild Bunch because they are tuned to run 3" shells.
good luck, GJ
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SASS shooting is rarely "precision" shooting. Most folks with good eyesight have some difficulty seeing a standard sight at the firing rates we usually do. Putting small dots on the front sight would be just about worthless for someone with marginal eyesight. Besides being illegal.
But welcome to SASS and hope you enjoy your time in the game! GJ
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3 hours ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said:
Look at Buffalo Arms.
ALL their long distance rifle sights showed out of stock when I looked a couple of days ago! good luck, GJ
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Further reading on Model 12 carriers lead me to a supply of carriers reclaimed from "parts" guns, available either with no shell guide, or with shell guide, for 12 gauge guns.
Have not run across this vendor before, but they have an extensive listing of Model 12 parts. A previous supplier that I used for Winchester parts, NuLine out of Missouri, has disappeared in the last year or so.
Good luck, GJ
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Another yes, from experience. But, it will possibly make you a bit slower getting the front sight on next target in a cowboy match. GJ
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38 minutes ago, Highwall said:
the site
What Site? Montana Vintage Arms? Looks to me like there is a domain name problem, or web site has expired (or host name has been sold/hijacked by a new entity). Call this number that was listed for them back when the web site worked:
Here's a top-notch brand (Kelley) of custom Soule sights, with the mid-range sight picked out. They will work closely with you to get you exactly what you need. But, it will be a lot more than that Cimarron sight. But a lot more capable, too.
good luck, GJ
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Front slide serrations, target trigger with holes, hammer, front of grip serrations, beavertail, rear sight and extended controls rule out the Traditional side of the game. Probably legal for Modern with a legal magazine. I'd have to look at all it's listed features to be sure.
I'd look at Tisas guns if you want a low-end gun that is really good. Most folks have real good luck with them. They have some that are Traditional, and some that are more modern.
good luck, GJ
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No, but changing the shape of the ID granules (the yellow dots) has happened before with some powders. I don't think there is any easy way to be real sure if it IS or IS NOT 700-x.
If the powder is not in the original container, you cannot be very sure of it. Spread it on the lawn! good luck, GJ
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4 hours ago, Uriah, SASS # 53822 said:
I ran this by copilot (AI), with the O’s, and it responded Longshot.
It is absolutely NOT Longshot, which is a flattened ball powder and very shiny gray. And Longshot has no color dots. Another idiotic AI result.
This is a flake powder......the yellow donuts remind me of 700-X. But, as I don't have 700-X on hand any more to do a precise comparison, it's fertilizer. As such, it will probably grow beautiful grass 700 times faster. 😄 GJ
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So, that serial number comes up as a 1954 manufacture year. A cartridge guide would not have been originally installed in that gun, carrier will not be machined to hold and operate a guide, and the milling of one to let you just add the guide and spring is kinda complicated.
I'd bet easing the rough edge off the chamber entry on the barrel, on the right side, would be pretty useful.
good luck, GJ
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Many older Model 12s don't use a cartridge guide on the right side of the carrier. "Newer" models (from about the 1960s on?) normally do. That guide is there to help keep the shell in the gun, on the carrier, when running at high speed. I've had a 1947 model and a 1963 model - neither had the cartridge guide.
What is the vintage of this gun, or at least the serial number (with the last three digits shown to us as STARS) ?
Is the carrier pivot screw tight (holding the carrier to the trigger group) (it tightens CCW by the way)? If not, it can affect the feeding of rounds.
Try keeping the gun about 15 degrees tipped over to the left as you run the action, so that gravity helps keep the shell from heading toward the ejection port as it feeds up into chamber. You can see how in the first picture that the shell base is pushing out into the port.
Or, you can run the gun a little slower and thus smoother. Not what you really want, but often the cheapest way to get them to run.
With a lot of hunting (like on ebay) you MIGHT find a used carrier that has the shell guide installed.
BTW, this is not a 3" chambered "duck gun," I hope? The problem with shells sliding right is real common with 2 3/4" shells in a 3" Heavy Duck gun with an action made for 3" hulls.
good luck, GJ
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OP is shooting the .45 Colt in his rifle. So, don't use a revolver cylinder as a loaded round checker.
good luck, GJ
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For the Rose Bowl?
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Even if a revolver HAS BEEN MADE AND SOLD with a .45 AUTO cylinder, that does not mean the same revolver model with a .45 COLT cylinder is safe at the same pressures. Different steel and heat treatment may well have been used on the two cylinders. As well, most .45 Colt chambers are bored to close to 0.480". While .45 AUTO cylinders are bored to 0.473". Less steel in a .45 Colt cylinder having the same OD as a .45 AUTO cylinder.
But, we were not picking on you in the first place. We were relaying the advice that many of the single action makers have published for many years. And basing our discussion on what SAAMI design standards are. You can see that about half of the top end loads in the reloading data you posted just above exceeds the pressure limit that .45 Colt revolvers have to be designed and tested to (14,000 psi), in order to comply with the SAAMI standards.
Now, if you want to suggest to folks that using the STARTING loads for .45 AUTO lead bullet loading data with the lighter bullets for the caliber are going to be safe loads for the Cowboy .45 Special, I would support that. But not the blanket statement you first made. And getting everyone to understand the limits of such a "stick to the minimums" recommendation is especially difficult.
good luck, GJ
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Seems like modern steels have allowed many manufacturers to extend their chamberings for single action revolvers to include the .45 AUTO now. Even if SAAMI standards have not caught up with that manufacturing practice.
Don't try it with guns built before WW II, I would guess.
good luck, GJ
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On 12/21/2025 at 8:26 AM, Eyesa Horg said:
ACP loads can be too hot for our SA revolvers
Not only hot, but running full 45 Auto loads would give stout recoil not needed for Cowboy matches!
.45 Auto max pressure (MAP in the standards) is about 21,000 psi. What a Colt design single action can take is about 14,000 psi. Don't be an Elmer Keith! GJ
Added after doing a lookup to make sure I was not remembering inaccurately.
The pressure limit in SAAMI standards for .45 Auto (standard pressure load) is 21,000 PSI. And 23,000 PSI with the +P version.
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Lots of data in this forum. I currently shoot a 175 grain conventional lubed bullet over 4 grains of Bullseye. Not hard - stick with a load that does not exceed single-action pressure capabilities - like 12,000 PSI for Colt and clone guns.
Although that powder looks a lot like the brown/gray flat-ball powder of Titegroup, there really is not any easy way to know unless you get an answer out of the American Cowboy folks. Do note the firm roll crimp that they have applied to their load - it's important to a consistent burn.
The bullet lube they use looks like Magma (or similar) hard blue "crayon" lube. Which is not soft enough to fully prevent leading with the low pressures of a C45Spl load. Good old 50-50 Alox NRA formula lube works better for our purposes - the hard crayon lubes are mainly made to ship well, last a long time on a store shelf, and provide a little lubrication at muzzle velocities over 1000 FPS
good luck, GJ
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Maybe you should photograph or scan the exploded drawing you have and share that with us. Chances of finding a SASS pard who has lightened that lever spring is fairly low. good luck, GJ
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2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:
Keep the Windex off the bluing though. Some say it will remove it!
Only the version of Windex that contains vinegar. Regular Windex is safe on bluing. good luck, GJ
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The so-called brass frames on Italian guns are not real brass (copper and zinc) but gun bronze alloy (copper and tin with a very small amount of zinc), which has better strength than most brass alloys. Look up "C90500 TIN BRONZE" as an example of what Uberti may be using.
Gun Metal Bronze by Atlas Bronze Company
These gun-bronze frames get a poly-plastic coat at the factory from what I have been told. Probably not worth trying to replace the coating as a DIY project. Folks I know who have tried with polyurethane are not happy with trying to get a protective coat on the frame.
Patina on bronze is a self-sealing protection layer - very thin - and it's not harming the metal. If you like the brownish color.
The chemical coating ("dyeing") of frames (color "case hardening" decoration) that is applied to some steel frames and minor parts to simulate conventional case hardening (but not as durable).
Two different types of metal, and the "coatings" are two entirely different things.
good luck, GJ
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I had those same containers back in 1972.
Powder normally stores very well if kept cool and dry. I see no outside signs of water, mold, rodent chewing, or distortion by heat. Good chance those powders will perform to current loading data. Try a little - and I hope you have ...good luck. GJ
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Well, one of us has to open up the tube to get the measurement. Guess it will have to be you. 🙂 I'm fabricating equipment today.
A 12 gauge hull rim is 0.886" max diameter. A follower for a Winchester 97 that I have in my parts box measures 0.921" OD at the "locating bands" - the largest diameter on the follower. I'd not go much smaller than that, or the follower may come out into the action.
As for length, my used-part follower is 1.828" long roughly.
good luck, GJ
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Rossi Rio Bravo .22 rifle
in SASS Wire
Posted · Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
No, it's a PVD vaporized metal deposited finish. Should be a lot tougher (and glossier) than Cerakote or electroplating, and probably close to what anodized aluminum would be.
good luck, GJ