Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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If you have to use an abrasive material, use the plastic scrubbing pad or bronze wool. Steel wool will cut into the frame surface, leaving small scratches. Neither of the alternates will do that. GJ
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Since you are making contact now on the rear barrel lug (the blue mark), but probably not getting all the way into the rear barrel lug with the locking bar, you may next need to start working a bevel on the underside of the locking bar at position I ("india" phonetically) that matches the angle of the rear barrel lug. Take a little off, and check if the touching (blue) mark moves slightly forward because now the bar can go slightly farther forward because of the bevel clearing the lug surface.
Be sure you are checking the fit between the barrel lugs and the locking bar while parts are outside the action, too - because the view is so much better doing that. That is your best guide for getting a great close fit between the lugs and the bar. Just slide the lock bar into the lugs the same way the opening lever and receiver do it.
You should real soon now start to mark (come into contact with) the front lug surface, too.
Sounds like you are on the right track! GJ
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You DO NOT have to have the vertical front end of the bar to touch the vertical front lug cavity wall. So, I'd take metal off the front of bar to the point that something else limits forward travel. Here is where your dychem or sharpie or prussian blue comes in for tagging the tight spots. GJ
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Renaissance wax is just a micro crystalline petroleum-based wax. Great for shine, poor for rub off protection. If it's flaking, peeling, hard to remove, its not Ren Wax. They could have sprayed/dipped a poly in several colors to try to look like CCH.
GJ
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Well, that doesn't sound like most "archival" wax I've dealt with - which should strip easily with toluene or acetone. Could be lacquer - so lacquer thinner would cut it. Most likely it's clear coat polyurethane spray . That probably needs soaking with Citristrip and a plastic wrap to keep the solvent from evaporating.
At least you don't have a valuable finish under it, so you can really do whatever you need to do to clean it up, just recoat with good rust preventative.
good luck, GJ
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Yes, Winchester quality control while making shotshells has gone in the toilet over last 10 years.
Yes, most shotguns are not well made enough to shuck shells the way that SASS rules allows ("manual ejection" from double guns).
Yes, most factory loads are hotter than needed to knock down our targets at 6 to 10 yards. Hot loads stick in chambers worse.
So, fix all three. Tune the shotgun to be slick around the chamber and extractor. Run good quality Remington brass head cover hulls (STS or Nitro 27). Load your own lower velocity lower recoil shells (7/8 ounce at 900 FPS is PLENTY).
NO factory load right now is optimal for most shooters in SASS.
good luck, GJ
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Perhaps restricting the posting of images should be the privilege of an active member only, leaving reading our sites and even posting text free to vetted public "users."
good luck, GJ
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Buffalo Arms has a fair selection, if you don't do woodworking.
good luck, GJ
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What you are calling tangs are normally called the locking lugs. So, if I get your drift, right now with the action closed, the locking bars do NOT contact any part of the lugs except at the vertical part of the front lug's recess. But, that would provide no amount of locking at all. The lock bar surfaces must "off" of contact with the horizontal parts of the locking lugs, meaning they were poorly fitted at the factory (or later). You probably need that new locking bar, IF the old one shows file marks from being thinned.
BUT - if the original locking bar has it's full thickness, then metal has been removed from the locking lugs (always the wrong place to try to make a double work better). A good TIG welder could close up the recesses on both front and back lug, then refit by filing to fit a full thickness locking bar.
good luck, GJ
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Glad your first went well.. I've had mine for 12 years now. Too much staring at computer screens back when they were cathode ray tubes shooting into your eyes.
good luck on next, GJ
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I have a lot of C45 S cases from Starline, and yes, they crack quite a bit more often than do my cut down .45 Colt cases made by Remington, Top Brass, Federal, even S&B.
I no longer buy from Starline because I came to a conclusion they don't really understand how to make this particular case. All their other chamberings I have tried have been OUTSTANDING.
And before you say you did not hear this before you bought, I have related my experience with these Starline C45S cases several times in the past.
good luck, GJ
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Note the emoji. Not a scientific test, and certainly uncalibrated. The goal of any test is to get close to the kind of "real world" conditions which MIGHT cause a failure, to see if worries about the possibility of such failure are unfounded, or if a change to the system is needed.
So, drop from as high as you figure is needed, and use about any wood (just to avoid the damage that would be done dropping onto concrete).
I actually do test the pull strength of my loads - in my hammer type bullet puller. If it only takes a "light rap" to move the slug with a roll crimp placed on it, crimp is not tight enough. If it takes a couple of "moderate raps" to move it - perfect. I also use the door jamb test - holding cartridge in one hand, press nose of round as hard as I can into the wood. If I don't collapse the slug into the case - good enough. GJ
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2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:
I also haven't met anyone who has sat down to calculate the the impulse pressure generated by
Don't have to calculate it, I make that decision based on field testing. Where it REALLY counts. Now, a design that is going to be cast with 6-2 alloy really does present a need for a crimp groove, especially with folks who don't DO a lot of reloading to know all the tricks to use.
Although, if you really wanted to test whether bullets will break their seating position, fill a magazine tube up and drop rifle butt first onto a wood surface and then examine the rounds for any collapsed condition. 😉 If none, then it's nothing to worry about unless you are loading cracked cases.
But, I'll stand behind my statement - a crimp groove is not really necessary if you know how to load.
And the whole topic of commercial casters using an alloy that was never even considered before the .357 magnum was invented and reloaders who did not know better started leading up barrels is a complete discussion of it's own. A 10 BNH bullet is all that is needed for ANY SASS match shooting, even with 1911s. No one I know shoots "dead soft" slugs over smokeless powder, either. The Happy Medium (Goldilocks choice) wins again.
good luck, GJ
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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:
I personally don't recommend a bullet without a crimp groove.
I have been running .45 cal bullets for the last 10 years with no crimp groove, and ZERO bullet setbacks. In a .45 rifle load that makes about 175 PF. Both in cowboy and WB. What is the key? A soft slug, about 10 BNH, and a firm roll crimp into the bullet land so that the brass of the shell cuts into surface of the lead is the key to this!d Hard alloys (like the standard commercial 6-2 alloy) make it hard to roll the crimp into the slug.
A crimp groove, while a nice luxury, is not NEEDED if you load with the proper understanding of the amount of pressure exerted by the bullet stack weight in the magazine and the recoil of the rifle.
Now, one design trick that has been used in the past (but not very favorably received) is to put two crimp grooves into the front of the shaft of the bullet.
good luck, GJ
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I'm sure all involved in the match appreciate your hard work and quick posting! GJ
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That top spring for the left hammer appears to be a replacement of an "unground OD" spring. That is probably a bit weaker than the bottom spring (which has tighter coils, larger diameter spring stock, and ground to remove enough diameter to get into the bore tightly. Putting shim into the back end of the spring (if you can get the end cap off and back on) would be easiest way to go.
STRETCHING a coil spring never lasts. It's the metal diameter in the spring steel from which the spring is wound which really sets the force the spring can exert.
(written before your last reply showed)
good luck, GJ
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Typical .45 Colt cartridge length that works is highly variable, even within toggle link rifles. Depends upon the carrier installed (factory, replacement, even custom tuned carriers - all have a different cartridge return ramp angle). Then there are the shorter rounds - Schofield and C45Special. And then there's the Marlins (like a longer round) and 92 designs.
I DO NOT THINK you can make one design that always works. Unless you go to a design that can be loaded in .45 Colt cases to about 1.530" or more, to shoot in most factory toggles. Or you go very flexible by not putting a crimp groove in the leading band area.
So, that would be a fairly long nose bullet. From my personal experience, I would use a long Truncated Cone nose with a meplat about .220" - slightly larger than the primer diameter.
Comments from a fellow bullet designer - the Accurate 45-175B is from my design of a stubby TC bullet. Made to have a fairly wide lube groove (can work as a BP slug) but NO crimp groove (so it can be seated over a wide range of lengths). Has worked real well for Cowboy shooting when cast soft (10 BNH) so that crimp can be turned into the leading band. And it casts VERY fast since it's not hollow based.
good luck, GJ
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15 hours ago, John Kloehr said:
Can report 90% IPA does
Oh, OK isopropyl........I was wondering where you got your India Pale Ale that was 90% ethanol. 😄
More pics would be worth a thousand words typed in try to get an explanation of what you do or don't see....
What would be real useful to try is taking the locking bar out of action, and hand testing the fit into the locking lugs on bottom of barrel. And a pic of that. Your first pics were marked as if the tip of the bar went completely forward into the recess in the front locking lug. Is this true?
You did not describe how the back cross-piece of the locking bar fits the second locking lug - at the breech. That seems to be a pretty wide slot! Does the crossbar on the locking bar fill that slot well? Check for both full insertion to the depth of slots, and any slack vertically when the bar is full forward in the slots. No Stoeger will be fit up "perfectly" due to the price point the gun is made to and skill (or lack of) shown by the Brazilian factory worker.
If as you have stated the barrels are not able to be even slightly opened when action is closed up, then the lugs and the locking bar are fitted well enough. That leaves that spring shown in your last picture - the opening lever and locking bar return spring. You may have to find a stronger spring, or add a spacer (washers, a short piece of tubing, mainly put in to test if a stronger spring would be a permanent fix) to put more force into holding the opening lever closed during recoil.
good luck, GJ
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Strong probability of the hammer spring gone weak.
Small probability the firing pin is mushroomed or otherwise reluctant to travel out to hit primer - bad return spring, bent pin, bore of firing pin area dirty or burred.
Little probability the hammer itself is damaged - it's the HEAVY piece of the parts involved with striking the pin.
You did not clearly say you checked for possible tight fit between hammer and stock - I have seen that on a couple of Baikals.
Why are you ready to break out the welder before you find the real problem? That's like tossing parts at an engine that doesn't run smooth (the parts cannon).
Take off the butt stock and watch the action parts when you drop the hammer.
good luck, GJ
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Yep, CitriStrip is one of the most common, and least dangerous to lungs and skin, strippers. I've used several, and now just use CitriStrip. It will USUALLY cut through the sprayed polyurethane finish that the factory puts over the red stain in one or two applications. Get a few plastic bondo spreaders or other medium soft plastic scrapers to pull off the stripper and softened finish. Don't use metal tools or steel wool. Use the woven plastic scrubber pads if you need to have something SLIGHTLY aggressive.
Once stripped, do the least amount of sanding or dewhiskering that gives you a smooth surface. It's very easy to take enough wood off to have metal standing proud of your refinish job, which, to an experienced eye, says "clumsy refinish job."
Needless to say, make sure you separate the wood stocks from all metal parts before you start. good luck, GJ
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Baikals being Russian made - parts have disappeared largely during the last 10+ years of sanctions on Russia. Even though Remington imported them for a couple of years putting the Spartan name on them, they never did stock parts AFAIK. The EAA (Florida) importer does not have parts anymore (and didn't have much when they were bring them in).
Loose on the hinge can usually be fixed without parts. Which any shotgun smith should be able to do. One barrel not firing with a Baikal can sometimes be the hammer/spring/trigger hanging up on the wood of the buttstock. Look for splinters or rub marks where hammer travels.
Changing to a single trigger - now that would probably require finding a single trigger Baikal or Spartan that is otherwise junk and swapping several parts in, then tuning and testing it......not sure that would be worth it on a Baikal at this late date.
If you want to get some good SxS shotgun work under contract, a shop fairly close to you would be Art's Gunshop in Hillsboro, MO
https://artsgunshop.com/contact-us/
Or Sgt Eli (an active member and a recommended SASS gunsmith) owns Victory Gun Works, Fairfield, Illinois, (618) 204-9972
From a proud(?) owner of 3 Baikals (all double triggers) over the years....("proud" in this case mostly meaning I stuck my neck out investing in them 😄).
good luck, GJ
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Said I lament it. You are certainly free to have your own opinions. But no need to "suggest" to me that I ought to feel that way. GJ
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THAT ^ factory section of bevel is typical of what the guns look like recently. But, as said, sometimes the bevel does not go out to the right side of the frame enough. GJ
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5 hours ago, R. R. Ranger said:
Also figuring out best way to clean up (blue) area you marked. Getting to that area will be interesting it seems.
I am usually able to get into that with a motor-driven die grinder (like a Foredom, but mine is a Harbor Freight copy). And a conical grinding bit. Go VERY carefully.
good luck, GJ
Cleaning cartridges
in SASS Wire
Posted
Mineral spirits are fine....don't soak them though, if the crimp is weak, fluid can get into the powder or even primer.
I clean ALL my loaded ammo in my vibratory bowl cleaner to remove bullet and case lube left on them, with lizard litter, a dryer sheet and a cap of mineral spirits in the full bowl. In 30 minutes, clean and even polished, and never had a failure to fire (or damage to the rounds).
good luck, GJ