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Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

  1. Low recoil is all about light payload, slow muzzle velocity and the weight and fit of the gun (heavier and nice fit give lowest felt recoil).   That's about it.  So, load light and shoot a heavy gun.  Factory ammo in 20 gauge will usually not even come close, as you know.   You will need to load, as you know.  And very little 20 gauge cowboy light load data is available, so unless someone here has a great load, you will have to build one up yourself.   You will want about 1/2 ounce of shot and 800 FPS, perhaps 900.   That means a really tall (long) wad and maybe even some filler (cards, etc.).    If you use a roll crimp, you can adjust the hull length to fit with minimal use of fillers.  I'd suggest you get spun up on that.   Powder brand will matter very little.  Wad will matter little.  Something in the range of Unique or Winchester WST might make a nice light load.  You will not be wanting to load to even the minimum in published loads  - all off the bottom of the loading book data.  Be careful of squibby loads.

     

     

    Or, you could just learn to shoot your shotgun from the waist by "feeling" the aiming point instead of shouldering it.  Then you could use light factory loads in either 12 or 20 gauge, most likely.  Several shooters are real good with this approach.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 2
  2. Look at your primers for pressure.  Loading shorter than 1.580" will certainly raise pressures over what a a full-length OAL would do.  If you are showing significant primer flattening or even cratering, that is too hot a load even for normal loading, and certainly very hot for SASS matches.   Probably 4.2 grains or so would be a typical load for cowboy matches.

     

    Sounds like your fired case sticks when trying to get the carrier to kick it free from the extractor and eject it.   Often that is due to the shape of the top of the carrier block, which is what EJECTS the case.

     

    Watch your fired case as you run the lever.  You should be able to see almost every possible binding cause on a 73 rifle - the action is very visible. 

     

    good luck, GJ

  3. Typically, you would turn the sorting plate upside down when you see "many" .45 Colt cases clogging the slots.  Thus, dumping the Colt cases and clearing slots for continued screening.  It's made for screening a few hundred cases, not thousands of cases an hour in a continuous operation.  GJ

    • Like 3
  4. The common way of separating objects judging on the length is to use an industrial sorting bowl (like a vibrating case feeder) with the internal ramp designed to tip the objects over to be able to pass a horizontal cutout that lets the short objects fall through and the long ones jump the gap to discharge into another container.  Used all the time to sort used brass when working with large amounts. 

     

    Sorting .45 auto from .45 Colt is even easier - you can get the sorting ramp to drop the 0.473" rim of the auto, while forcing the .508" rim of the .45 Colt to pass over the gap.  Stand the cases up before the drop hole tests them.

     

    good luck, GJ

  5. A cap full of paint thinner in a batch of media, plus a used dryer sheet, helps keep any polishing wax you might add BEFORE you add the brass distributed on the media and pulls LOTS of fouling and dirt off the brass to keep the media much cleaner and free from dust.  That also helps remove the black soot on cases like the .45 Colt which don't seal the chamber well.  GJ

    • Like 5
  6. Probably a recent response to the Large Primer Disappearance we are having right not.    Sure not due to police departments needing lead-free practice ammo in .44-40!   Another stupid idea where ammunition is allowed to vary from SAAMI standards.

    GJ

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  7. The Chinese made followers are not "holed" either.  Probably a different follower than what w3as factory was installed, perhaps in hopes of the mag tube capacity being increased by that.  GJ

     

    PS correction - I pulled out all my Chinese 97s.  All have a solid face on the follower (versions 01, 06, 09) EXCEPT for a CB model (the last version made).  That one does have a central hole in the face of the follower.  But importantly, all 4 guns I checked have the follower face flush to the frame opening, or slightly proud of the opening.  Getting your follower to that same condition will likely be the solution to your jamming when dropping a round in the action with the muzzle below horizontal.  GJ 

    • Like 1
  8. I just dump about 20 mixed cases from my tumbler into my hand, jostle them a little, and the tall .45 Colt cases stick up for easy picking out from the rest of the cases.  This is definitely a first world problem.  GJ

    • Thanks 2
  9. 1 hour ago, SHOOTIN FOX said:

    The follower is slightly recessed in the mag tube. Hope that clears it up.

     

    All my several 97 followers have enough nose length to stick out into the frame just past flush.  This prevents any catching of the single-round dropped in the action.  You may not need a spring - especially if your current spring pushes the follower to the point where the first ridge on the follower runs into the ring inside the back end of the mag tube!   I'd look for a follower with more length between the face that contacts the mag-tube round and the first ring on the follower body - a longer "nose" in other words.  Don't want a cavity there to catch that dropped-in round.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 1
  10. 1 hour ago, SHOOTIN FOX said:

    Single loading for cowboy is where it failed. 

    Yep, really sounds like you don't have enough spring or a burr/fouling that is making that single-round-in-mag fail to pop out.   Spring the likely reason.  GJ

  11. 489... would fall in the 1922 production range.    (41701 to 55100 serials)  That was the second largest production year for the 3rd Model hammered revolver, when 13,400 were made.  The highest production for this model was in 1911, when the model first hit major production.

     

    good luck, GJ

     

    • Like 2
  12. And you could shoot your antagonist once a week for a year with one and he'd probably still survive to come back for another shot.   :lol:

     

    Anyway, yes, you have a nickel plated Iver Johnson 3rd Model that was made in the smokeless era.  The small lead-in to the locking notch on the cylinder and positive cylinder locking both in the rotation direction and backwards when the bolt drops in the notch makes them more rugged.  Made from 1909 to 1934.

     

    The star in front of the Company Name on the top strap dates it to 1913 or later production. 

     

    If you post the first three digits of the serial number on the trigger guard, I can get you the exact year of production, from the book by Goforth.

     

    Don't go crazy with hot loads in this gun, even though it a smokeless gun.  SO many of them have been shot loose with hot .38 S&W rounds.  

     

    good luck, GJ

     

     

    • Like 3
  13. If your gunsmith works on a lot of cowboy guns, he will probably appreciate it if you let him pick out the parts to be installed.   Many smith's really hate being locked into putting in and fitting parts that they don't normally use.  Since each short-stroke kit is different, letting your smith pick the parts would make a lot of sense.

     

    If that gunsmith is just a "general sporting guns" fellow (or even less knowledgeable, black gun parts swapper) - then pick a CAS familiar gun smith!   Cowboy guns are usually more than just "let's throw some new parts in" type of job.  Tuning and smoothing also needs to be done to get a "go-fast" job to actually run well.

     

    The gunsmith list which SASS keeps in their FAQ includes this fellow:

    Florida - Island Gunsmith - Tommy Bonnet (alias - El Q Jones) Amelia Island, FL (904) 557-4909

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  14. If the mag follower seems not to push shells hard enough to shove out the rounds, first clean and inspect the mag tube for dirt, fouling, rust, etc.  Then check and perhaps replace the mag tube spring.  My previous recommendation has been to trim off extra spring so that uncompressed spring is 4" longer than the mag tube.  I'm now believing and switching my 97s to have more spring - about 6" extending.  Just enough I can still load 6 rounds in the tube.  Mag tube springs DO get weaker with age and use!

     

    good luck, GJ

  15. Ok, how much of the action is not functioning?

     

    Does the forearm slide go forward?

    Does the carrier rise up?

    Does the bolt go forward?

     

    Does the problem occur when the gun is empty of all shells?

     

    A common problem could be the action slide hook screw (the large one that screws through the bolt from the right side of the ejection port and holds the action slide hook to the slide arm) has broken off.   However, it's unlikely that slamming the butt down on an object would clear the problem - it would take replacement with a new screw to fix well.

     

    Does the "second" shell (which should be staying in the mag tube) come out far enough to jam the rise of the carrier (look at worn or dirty shell stops).  

     

    More description of the problem will make long-distance troubleshooting easier.  GJ

    • Thanks 1
  16. Next time, use a brass punch, about 1/4" diameter (aka drift) and a reasonable size hammer.   Let the drift take the damage, not the sight or the barrel. 

     

    Sights almost always install right to left and remove left to right.   Using standard orientation of the gun - as if you are ready to shoot it.  Looking from butt towards the muzzle.

     

    When you are filing the bottom of the dovetail of the SIGHT to get it to fit, file as close to perfectly level and straight across.  Do not let the centerline "hump up" due to letting the file tip as you cut across.   And don't even try to sand the sight.  You want really good control of the metal you are removing.

     

    When you can insert the sight base about 1/4 of the way into the slot just with finger pressure, THEN you can apply taps with hammer and punch.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 2
  17. If you can't find copper scouring pads, go to a full-line hardware store and buy some 00 (or so) bronze wool.  It will look about like steel wool, but it is yellow/brown in color.   Perfectly safe in for scrubbing any steel - even removing rust from a blued gun when used with a good rust-breaking oil like Kroil or PB Blaster.

     

    good luck, GJ

     

     

  18. All my '73 rifles have the rear sight "buckhorn ears" filed down to be a flat open sight.  Better view when moving to next target in a sweep.   Most have a replacement bead that is slightly larger than factory.   The huge ones are not any faster for me, and when I need to take a 60+ yard shot, the huge beads cover up a lot of a standard target.

     

    The rage 10 or 15 years ago was a tang mounted peep sight.  Those have fallen into much less favor now.  

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 6
  19. Nope.  Seemed like a great product.  I like mine a lot.  Maybe not a lot of folks reloading revolver cartridges any more?  Bean counters do strange things to a company's product line sometimes.

     

    good luck, GJ

  20. 22 minutes ago, Horace Patootie, SASS #35798 said:

    . I do wonder if I lower the sizing/decapping die if I can bell the case mouth a little more to make inserting the bullet a little easier.

    On a straight-wall cartridge, you have to lower the powder-thru-expander die, not the sizer, to make a larger mouth bell for easier seating.  The minimal amount I find works well is if I can just set the base of the slug into the mouth enough to cover the bottom band on the bullet.  Too much overworks the brass, too little leads to shaving lead fingernails off the bullets as you seat them.

     

    good luck, GJ

  21. You can usually extend the decapping stem quite a bit, and probably can decap with the sizer body only coming 1/3 of the way down the case.   But I've not tried to do that with a Dillon die.  I bought the 2-sizer CARBIDE-rings Redding die when they were making them 8 years ago or so and use that to neck size the top third and "body" size the lower 2/3 while decapping at the same time.  Works a charm.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 2
  22. 1 - the "centering" movement of the bolt as it approaches the chamber is quite normal.  Usually with a round being fed, the round helps with that centering.  With no round feeding, the nose of the extractor sliding into the extractor cut in the barrel face makes the bolt center up.  It's both normal and necessary, since there is very little guidance of the nose of the bolt provided by the rather floppy support of either the FPE or the the fit of the rear of bolt into the frame. 

     

    2- the machining cuts showing in the top of the frame are also very normal.  They would not interfere with a good firing pin strike.

     

    3 - although a picture taken of rear of the frame can be deceiving, there appears to be a lot of wear on the frame, with a burr being raised at the bottom and wear at the top actually coming all the way out to the outside surface of the frame.   Compare this to your 357 frame.....     

     

    I'll second LEP's conclusion.  This gun will need a serious repair to the frame or FP assembly that would be best handled by a gunsmith with good tooling and measurement skills.

     

    good luck, GJ

     

     

     

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