Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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A whisper spring from The Smith Shop. Smith Shop retired several years ago, Online Outpost took their remaining stock. No more of these remain on Online Outpost website listings.
I've got at least 2 in my 73s right now - been running them for 10 years.
GJ
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Mainsprings, especially lightened ones, will get tired and fail after lots of use. Only getting a year of service out of a new spring is pretty bad. Did the mainspring have a maker's name associated with it?
Cold weather is known to slow down gun actions especially if lubed with an oil or grease that greatly slows down the hammer strike.
Cold weather more commonly affects how powder burns more than how reliably a primer fires when struck.
With only a month to go, look for every opportunity to fire that rifle with the same kind of ammo you intend to run the match on. About all you can do at this point. Besides also shooting the backup some too.
good luck, GJ
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This game is labeled the Single Action Shooters Society because semi-auto handguns are not used in Cowboy matches.
We do have a second competition that uses 1911 design pistols chambered for .45 auto, though.
good luck, GJ
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For the shotgun how do you determine it’s a light load is it the shot or the powder?
Any load that is not considered a magnum or high velocity shell by the manufacturer, and uses lead bird shot of pellet size 4 or smaller . It's a rather loose definition.
Winchester used to market a 12 gauge shotshell load that went by the name of Featherlite, and now may still be around as Low Noise Low Recoil. That was the poster child for cowboy matches. But loads typically used for any of the major shotgun clays games would be legal.
Cartridges for rifle and revolvers are almost all rimmed cartridges, mostly developed before 1900, firing lead or polymer coated bullets. With velocities for revolvers between 400 and 1000 FPS, and rifles less than 1400 FPS.
The Cowboy Action Shooting rule book covers this pretty definitively. Get your own copy from this page:
The game is largely played best by reloading. If you don't reload, Cowboy shooting can be done, but it's sometimes difficult to find ammunition that is available and competitive. Buying competitive ammo for the revolvers is often especially difficult. So, most of us reload. But you can get started by buying lead bullet "target" ammo, but avoiding wadcutter bullet designs. And in lever action rifles, also avoiding semi-wadcutter (Keith style) bullets since they may not feed well.
COME OUT to a local match BEFORE you start buying guns and ammo and leather, etc. You will be surprised how many friends you will make, and how you will make much better choices!
good luck, GJ
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This just started during the last couple hundred rounds and I get 1 or 2 out of around 10 loads.
Ok, then your seater die probably picked up enough dirt and lube to make the seating "half a turn" too deep. Clean the stem of the seater die (and body if dirty in the bore), then adjust to seat to MIDDLE of the crimp groove, not touching the band at top.
Happens to all of us cast boolit loaders, eventually even to the folks loading poly coated slugs. GJ
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A combination die seats and crimps in one die. You are using two dies, at two stations. So, seat less deep, put mouth at the middle of the crimp groove.
Then crimp less - just enough that you can see a turn in, you are smashing a heavy crimp in from the pictures.
good luck, GJ
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Yes, that is due to pressure applied to the bullet that then transfers to the case, crumpling it
Usually a seat and crimp in one die causes this. Although if you are not careful, even a two die set seating with one and crimping with the other can still be adjusted to crush a long case. Along with cases of varying lengths. The longest cases have the mouth tight up against the crimp groove's top. Crimping then means that there is no place for the mouth of the case to turn into the groove. So the case gives way.
You also have more crimp than is needed. Back off the seater stem to let the mouth come to the middle of the bullet's crimp groove, and back off the die itself to lessen the AMOUNT of crimp being formed.
You may need to do this in two steps. Back off both the die body and the seater stem by a turn or two.
Lower the seater stem of the die to put the edge of the mouth in the middle of the crimp groove.
Then lower the die body (and slightly raise the seater stem before) until you form enough crimp turn in to hold the bullet. Now the die body is set.
Try the next bullet by adding back the same amount of rotation that you took off the stem, back onto the stem.
Check that you still have a good crimp and it's located a business card thickness below contacting the bullet band right above the crimp groove.
You have to have that "free space" between the mouth and the band of lead to prevent contact and the crushing.
good luck, GJ
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I use the technique of working the width of a leaf spring narrower. Hourglassing is what it is called, and it's much easier to control the strength of the spring.
Taper both ends of the cut to make the narrow section. Take some off, test the spring, when down close to desired weight, polish all scratches or grooves to remove stress raisers where spring steel can break.
good luck, GJ
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But unless somebody makes a better (i.e. metal) hammer- puller than what I have found, I'd need to buy about 10 of them to process 600 rounds.
You are hitting the puller too hard! I just finished reseating about 150 rounds that loaded 0.100" too long. That puller is 10 years old and has probably pulled thousands of rounds by now, including some mil surplus rifle rounds.
good luck, GJ
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To reseat over-length crimped rounds, I use a hammer bullet puller to nudge the bullet FORWARD enough to straighten out the crimp. Then I reseat to proper length and quick as that, the round is ready to fire.
good luck, GJ
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A malfunction is called for the GUN failing to work and you no longer continue to use it. I am pretty sure that leaving that round you attempted to fire and which FTFd in the cylinder is NOT a MISS nor an overloading of the gun. So, don't call malfunction and you should be fine.
good luck, GJ
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This situation shows why in the 1920s it was SO important to have a committee of the major gun makers agree to follow some standards with respect to how to make ammo and firearms work safely regardless of who made each of the "parts"
I won't use ammo from a maker (like HSM) that fails to comply with SAAMI standards! Too much possible risk.
The bottom line to me is - if you feel the need to shoot a very capable
handgunrifle - then look for something designed to be more powerful than a .45 Colt!good luck, GJ
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Sometimes a long round that is NOT fired (by mistake, or having to clear the gun) will not eject through a port. Jams the gun royally then.
Use shorter ammo - do not reseat the slug on an already high-pressure load!
good luck, GJ
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If your loading cartridges problem will NOT get any easier when you press a blunt screwdriver tip on the front end of the loading gate inwards all the way to the left side of the frame walls, then most likely the loading gate tab (the part that is bent at a 90 degrees angle into the action) could be a little "fat", too long a tip. Try painting the very edge (tip) of the loading gate TAB with a sharpie that has a different color - like silver. If you rub that silver off when trying to push rounds, then the tab has too much metal and needs a little filing. Inside the action, the loading gate can collide with either the lifter arm or the inside of the frame.
If pressing the loading gate fully DOES allow rounds to load nicely, then you may need to thin the arm of the gate so it does not have so much spring tension.
Don't take much off at time. And it's safer (less chance of breakage) if you thin the width of the arm with a taper pattern, rather than thinning the thickness of the arm. Thinning the thickness makes a leaf spring weaker VERY quickly. Leave no file marks to act as stress risers (where a break can occur).
Of course, hard LOADING of the mag tube is something that you can live with because you rarely load the mag tube "on the clock" while shooting.
Glad to see you seem to have the new lifter working, though! GJ
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I keep a spreadsheet (free one - no more Excel prices for me) with all my loads, both shot for groups in the past, and planned to load. Gives me things to do when I run out of doing real work at the range or the house.
And another spreadsheet with details on each firearm. Has come in handy many times.
good luck, GJ
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No ejector on the toggle rifles (other than the top surface of the carrier). That top hook is the extractor.
OP - you need to CLEARLY explain the remaining difficulty. You keep saying this is a "loading" problem, which to me means you can't easily load rounds through the loading gate into the mag tube.
Then some folks are treating this like a levering/chambering problem. The round on the carrier not feeding well into the chamber and letting the lever close completely.
Then OTHER folks are discussing an extraction and ejection problem. Getting the fired brass out of the chamber and ejected cleanly.
Tell us specifically which of these you are bothered by. Before this post turns into 14 pages of guesses, and perhaps none help you solve the problem.
good luck, GJ
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He did mention caliber - .38 special ammo. In 7th post.
Cartridge length not making for difficulty loading rounds into the gun. Either loading gate, carrier constriction or something hanging up in mag tube.
good luck, GJ
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9 hours ago, Dred Bob said:
I just need to figure out the loading issue. I don't want to force the cartridges. It could definitely be a result of the narrower carrier channel. Either I file some more or maybe try some shorter .38 test rounds.
The loading of cartridges shoves rounds through through the loading gate, into the channel of the carrier, then into the mag tube. And when levering the action, of course, the round to be fed to the chamber has to pop rearward into the channel then be pushed forward into the chamber by the bolt after the carrier rises. So, you definitely have to have sufficient clearance in the channel for a round to slide without binding or being tight. Can you slide rounds easily fore and back with the carrier out of the gun, held in your hands? If not, more filing will be needed to allow the rounds to travel freely.
How about explaining if EVERY cartridge you load is sticking, or just the first or just the last. Very hard to load last cartridge - could be an over-length magazine tube spring (common from factory). If it's every cartridge - may be a narrow spot in the carrier or the frame. But since this problem sounds like it has started only with the new carrier, check that closely. Take a sharpie pen and color the inside of the block. Load some cartridges, unload them, then take block out and examine for marks in the fresh coating.
Look for rub marks on the inside of the carrier channel and on the receiver (frame) where the mag tube meets the receiver. Look for a magazine follower that sticks either in the frame or the mag tube.
Also check that the loading gate can be pushed open easily as you shove cartridges in. Uberti makes the spring arm of the loading gate very strong. A bent loading gate or too much arch on the spring arm can catch on the lifter arm or even toggle links.
Having sticky LOADING of the magazine is an uncommon problem with a 73.
And short rounds will not fix a hard magazine loading issue. And will, if short enough, cause levering rounds into the chamber to jam up with one and part of another round in the carrier.
All of this tells me the gun needs to go back to LongHunter for some remedial work. Having to do a lot of adjustment to the carrier's channel is not what is usually needed with a carrier replacement.
good luck, GJ
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Extractor probably is weak and needs to be replaced. And the lever and lifter springs, if still the factory originals, ought to be replaced. Tighten the lifter spring side until the carrier is held even with bottom of frame. Problems with loading the magazine are "vertical alignment of carrier" problems.
Some new carriers need the rear of the bolt travel channel filed a little to make a conical entry (centering relief) to better let the bolt find it's way forward.
good luck, GJ
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1 hour ago, Macon Due said:
Another possibility is Win. WST.
Already proven to be a good dual purpose powder, just not every pistol cartridge has some published data from Hodgdon. Like .45 Colt, but I run WST in the Colt all the time.
good luck, GJ
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6 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:
45 Colt annealing.....does it really help that much?
Helps quite a bit - but not as much as blowing out .44-40 cases.
As does a heavy powder charge and a heavy bullet. Both of which are bad for high speed gallery shooting.
The discontinued Redding dual ring sizer die also helps quite a bit, and is the easiest to get started doing!
good luck, GJ
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Ditto that. Had to clear an annular split .38 spl case BROKEN AT THE CANNELURE from a 73 in a major match that cost wife-at-time a buckle. Now I carry case extractors.
may it never happen to you! GJ
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Think they also work in a Lyman turret press (Spar-T)
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Yes, shotgun primers are made with an outer cup (the battery cup) that is almost always steel. And some even have the inner cup (containing the primer) made of steel too. I put shotgun primers directly in trash.
Unless you are running some European cartridges, the cartridge primers should all be brass.
good luck, GJ
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11MM dovetail front sight
in SASS Wire
Posted
Don't know for sure what you need, so I'll recommend some that deal with period target rifles:
Have you tried Buffalo Arms?
http://www.buffaloarms.com/
Or Lee Shaver Gunsmithing
http://stores.leeshavergunsmithing.com/
good luck, GJ