[Question about fillers for 45 Schofield rounds]

Your loads did not substitute enough of either filler to make much difference in the recoil.  Drop down to 15 grains of Black and you will feel some difference.   That then will take maybe 12 grains of filler to eliminate any air space.

 

Good charcoal is what is ALREADY IN black powder.   Unless  you used some very poor quality charcoal, there is no way the use of charcoal as a filler will cause extra fouling problems.  I shoot .44-40 and .45 Colt cases with about half BP and half activated charcoal, layered, and get no extra fouling.  Now, if you ground up cheap BBQ briquettes, that stuff has a bunch of sand and other garbage in it.

 

I'd betcha it's not the filler that is locking your cylinder, but the barrel/cylinder gap is too small.  And also pay special attention to using a GOOD BP lube, and plenty of it. 

 

I too am a fan of Cowboy 45 Special cases.  I cut old .45 Colt cases down and they last a LONG time.

 

I'm sure you can solve this if you try some of the simple stuff.   GJ

 

[Uberti 73 failure to extract]

Quote

I could not push the bolt any further forward.

So, that tells you something besides links that are not "long" enough is causing your problem.

 

As you push the bolt forward, look down at the extractor tip and the cartridge support tab tip.  See if one of those is jamming into a part of the action or barrel which stops the forward motion.  In order for the bolt to make full travel, the bolt face has to come within about 8 thousandths of an inch (0.008") (or closer) from the rear of the barrel (the breech) back of a cartridge case.  Without the bolt having full travel forward, the extractor may not hook over the rim, and the fired case (or an unfired round) will not be extracted.  As well, the firing pin may not be hitting the primer hard enough to set it off.

 

About time to get the gun to a smith for a close examination.  This could be caused by a number of root causes, and with what I can read of your level of experience with the 73 action, you may hunt for a long time.

 

good luck, GJ

[Taylor 1873 Firing Pin Extension]

42 minutes ago, Tall John said:

could it be the depth I’m priming my cases? 

 

Never seat primers intentionally HIGH, or any deeper than flush or a couple of thousandths of an inch below the top edge of the primer pocket.  Then you don't have to worry about feeding/chambering high primer cases, or crushing the priming pellet in the primer, or about a good Firing Pin not being able to set it off.    So, NO,  high or deep seating are never a good idea.  Fix the gun to work with flush-seated primers! 

 

Your gun can be fit with a slightly longer firing pin by a good gunsmith, or even can be DIY if you know how to file to the proper FP protrusion and shape, IF that is what is needed.  But check your hammer(main) spring tension first - it's just an adjustment.

 

good luck, GJ

[High quality SASS double shotgun?]

I have an Ithaca NID - it's not a cowboy match suitable double.   IMO.  It's well made, for a gun made in the 1930s.  Doll's head projects between barrels (so a little slower to load), heavy, stiff action, and where's any spare parts?  Parts will have to be made, and few smiths will want to do that. 

 

good luck, GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

You should coordinate with the service rep at Stoeger to contact you BEFORE they ship the gun back to you!   Give them your phone # and have them call.  That way you can get very close to knowing you will be home rather than traveling.  But if you are still working days, you need a receiver who will be around for a day-time receipt of the gun. 

 

UPS normally sends an email when a package is coming to you.   Sometimes they don't.   Ask Stoeger for tracking info on the gun when they ship back! 

 

good luck, GJ

[WTC: KD down by pistol fire]

Shotgun clean.  For whatever reason that a shotgun is down before the shotgun string is begun, the standard response is to "shoot where it was."  A pistol error (miss) does not make for any sort of shotgun error - they are separate strings.

 

good luck, GJ

[Anyone else having issues with buckshot in a Stoeger Coach Gun?]

If you want brass head covers that spring back down to normal size after firing, you want either Winchester AA or Remington STS or Nitro 27 target type loads.  GJ

[Sarco double barrel shotguns]

Hmmm, shame on Sarco.  They have gone to non-standard HTML extensions on their web pages.  Most pages will open partially in Firefox browser (latest version) but hang up down-loading a gallery of several pictures, never to complete.  In Chrome browser, it works.    That's like refusing to serve a customer because they are not wearing the latest fashions of clothes in a style that matches shop owner's tastes.   Their web contractor should know better than to use non-standard extensions.

 

Also, Sarco has a long reputation for ranking conditions of firearms better than NRA standards for guns.  For example, take the Model 12 receiver WGD777 item number.  A deeply pitted rust bucket with no original finish noted.  This is ranked as Good condition.  NRA says this about a modern gun if it is to meet NRA

GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

 

Hmmm, buyer beware.  GJ

 

[Feed issue with 1873]

3 hours ago, Shawnee Hills said:

Your first picture looks to me like the round is stopped on the edge of the case mouth.

To me, it looks like travel stopped about 15 thousandths short of the crimp.  Commercial RNFP ammo rarely has a "proud crimp", especially 3 different brands.

 

good luck, GJ

[Gable Sporting Goods??]

2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

What if they accept all of those...and Credit Cards?

Then I pay only with credit card.  GJ

[Good loaded primers I hope to save]

It is your personal decision.  Mine was to use them for any loading, including EOT ammo.  Hasn't failed me yet. 

 

The only ones I discard are Military crimped primers that I have to remove with a hammer and punch made by Lee.   About my only Lee piece of equipment.   

GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

If you are adventurous enough to learn how to disassemble the gun, then do so far enough to get the lever, links, carrier and lifter arm out.  Then, to make sure channel in the carrier is large enough to pass the bolt AND a commercial round, try passing both through from back to front to simulate the travel of bolt and round as they are chambered.   Watch for any tight spots, burrs, etc.  Correct if necessary.  Again, working with someone experienced will help ensure interpret the fit well and don't take off metal that doesn't need to be removed.  Then reassemble and test.

 

good luck, GJ

[Question]

Count the number of grooves by carefully looking at the muzzle under good lighting.   12, sixteen or more grooves - that's Microgroove.   Five or six grooves - Ballard rifling.

 

Your barrel would have Microgroove marked on it if it had it, as mentioned above. 

 

Here's an article by Glen Fryxell (a very wise gun guy) on Marlin Microgroove barrels, see item 10 in this post:

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/why-microgroove.216057/

 

good luck, GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

Quote

I'm still not finding any search results that describe the same issue.

This stuff is kinda deep, but Pioneer Gunworks short stroke installation instructions are very informative about the operation of the lever, lifter and carrier.

 

Carrier height is determined mainly by the lifter arm geometry  - its shape (amount of bend).  If you need a little bit higher lift for the carrier, and the carrier does not impede the bolt travel, you can very carefully bend the lifter arm to raise the carrier to a slightly higher elevation.  Take a look at how Pioneer Gun Works describes and shows pictures in their fitting instructions for lifter arm installation (this is for their short stroke kit, but the general geometry is very similar to factory parts).  

On their technical info page,

https://www.pioneergunworks.com/pages/installation-instructions-technical-info

 

look at the

Short Stroke Kit Installation

 

or the video:

P.G.W. Short Stroke Kit Installation Video.

 

However, this (bending the lifter arm) would be a very tricky adjustment that a smith who has been solving similar problems needs to look at.   And any adjustment also needs to make sure you do not cause the TIMING of when the carrier rises and falls, and when the bolt needs to travel forward and back during the lever operation cycle, to cause the bolt to hit the carrier or bend the cartridge support tab on the bolt!

 

I think talking this over with your gunsmith/Cowboy shooter would be the next best step.   It will be hard to give you instruction for a complex fix that (as you can tell from lack of solid responses) most folks have never done. 

 

Stoeger is the importer.  They will have a gunsmith back in MD that they probably have on retainer to do warranty repair.  The gun will probably NOT go back to Uberti in Italy.  The gun is unlikely to be straight-up replaced without Stoeger's guy taking a close look.  Several of our good cowboy smiths would be able to do this work, but you really have not EXACTLY found out what will have to be tuned to make this run well, even if you think you have.   So, decide if you want to handle this locally, handle it with the help of a good gunsmith (like Jim Bowie in Yuma AZ), or try to get warranty assistance from Stoeger (that will take a  long time and can be an exercise in arguments traded and fingers pointed).

 

good luck, GJ

 

[Good loaded primers I hope to save]

Yes, pretty easy to punch out a live primer from either brass cartridges or shotshells.  I've done probably thousands over 50 years of loading ammo, only a few broke apart (losing compound), none yet have exploded.   Use eye and ear protection if you are worried.  Use your normal depriming methods, with light pressure.  They come out easier than they seat.

 

good luck, GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

3 hours ago, Jimmy Wilson said:

The link you shared to Pioneer seems to be dead.

 

Yeah, they reworked a page name.  (Silly thing to do when lots of folks have it bookmarked) I thought I captured and shared that new URL/name, so here's the new URL:

 

https://www.pioneergunworks.com/pages/installation-instructions-technical-info

 

GJ

 

 

 

[Feed issue with 1873]

3 hours ago, Jimmy Wilson said:

How do I extract the round if it hangs while chambering?

 

IF USING LIVE AMMO, DO THIS WORK IN A SAFE AREA, KEEPING FINGER OFF TRIGGER AND WORKING GENTLY AND WITH MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION AT ALL TIMES.

 

You said earlier that the round never really FAILS to go in the chamber, if you jiggle things around.  So, jiggle things around like you have done and get the round into chamber, close action and the extractor hook catches the rim.  Then opening the lever will pull the round out and the carrier will rise to eject the round out the top of action.

 

If action really "sticks/jams" with round part of way into chamber and the extractor has not hooked the rim, then with a long rod (3/8" wooden dowel works) gently push on the tip of the bullet that is now within the chamber until it comes back into the carrier.  Then gently open the lever.  Lever goes all the way open with the round falling back inside the carrier.  Push down on carrier and move lever slightly back, carrier should drop to bottom of shaft, open the loading gate and jiggle the round out through the loading gate.

 

This really is not normal behavior for a well functioning gun.   An experienced '73 shooter watching you would be real advisable, to spot what is causing the temporary "jam".  Know someone at your local club?

 

Does that make sense to you?  Let us know if you have questions about this.  GJ

[With help I found what I needed, thanks to all]

Art's Gun Shop in Missouri has done lots of work on high end Browning shotguns over the years - they might just have some spares.

https://artsgunshop.com/

 

Also, the Browning factory service center in Arnold MO.

Browning Parts
3005 Arnold-Tenbrook Road
Arnold, Missouri 63010-4728
800-322-4626 x3   

 

Or try the 6 "obsolete parts" dealers that Browning recommends, 2 of which are pretty obvious, :

https://www.browning.com/support/parts-service/obsolete-firearm-parts-service.html

With Browning themselves calling out Midwest Gunworks and Western Gun Part Limited in Edmonton Alberta for BSS "obsolete" parts

 

If all else fails, I'll bet a restoration house can probably make new parts, such as Run-N-Iron in Bertrand NE

http://www.runniron.com/contact/index.html

 

good luck  Johnny!   GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

That round in the carrier at an angle (first of your latest pics) is the tell-tale sign of needing the loading gate mortise beveled!    If that is what happens with 6 rounds in the mag tube, when you load 10 (the usual load for the rifle), the crooked round jam will be even worse - jammed tighter (due to pressure from the tighter compression that 10 rounds in the mag tube cause) because the round is harder to "jiggle back" straight.  Look seriously at the frame loading gate window bevel!

 

All your ammo has round nose flat point slugs.  The ammo is NOT what is causing a failure to feed.  Folks were trying to point out the well-known problems of trying to get semi-wadcutter ammo to feed in most lever guns.  Even if t hey called it a collared round.  BUT that is not your problem since you are using RNFP ammo.

 

Do all three of the ammo types show some resistance when you try to chamber them?  I would not put too much importance on finding that snap caps feed well, because they may be slightly smaller diameter than the 0.480" nominal diameter of the .45 Colt cartridge.

 

Let's try an experiment with just loading one round.   Take a black sharpie and mark all the slug and case right down to the rim.  Put that round in the loading gate and ease the lever through a cycle.  If the round hangs up, stop and extract the round with easy motion.  Look for where there are scratches showing binding on the round as it was trying to feed.  Take a few pics of any rubbed off marking.

 

You have a rather unusual problem.  The 73 rifle feeds the round almost straight in.   It would take the carrier being quite a bit out of position to make the feeding (forward travel of the bolt) bind up.   

 

good luck, GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

First - make sure you do not have a bullet stuck in the chamber or throat of the gun!    This stops a round from fully chambering just like your pic shows.   Run a cleaning rod down from the muzzle until it comes out into the carrier shaft.  If you can't you have a slug stuck from either a squib round or a bullet that caught in the chamber and pulled itself out of the case - that would have spilled powder around the action, too!

 

Second, take a real close look at the tab at the front of the bolt face, lower edge of it.  This tab should stick straight forward.  If it is bent downward, it can catch in the groove of the cartridge channel in the carrier (lifter) block.  A bent cartridge support tab needs replacement or repair.  A gunsmith job, for a first time cowboy shooter.

 

Lifter arm is raising the carrier about the right height, now that you gave us a side view. 

 

This problem could well be that the loading gate mortise was not beveled enough - it has been on many Uberti guns over the years.  This problem would make the first round balky to cycle up from magazine to chamber.  (But, that problem usually locks the gun up as you lever the action open, then start to close the action.   You are showing you can get the action about 2/3 closed! So this may not be your problem) 

 

A crooked round in the carrier usually requires jiggling the lever or slapping the gun to straighten out the round in the carrier block.  And could even affect the second round being crooked enough in the carrier channel to prevent the first one going into the chamber.  Load magazine with ten rounds in a safe place and manner.  Dummy rounds if you have them.     Look down in the opening in the carrier block to see if the first round sits angled (crooked) instead of straight forward.  Crooked means a poorly machined loading gate mortise.   Although lots of folks with experience can fix this with  these instructions:

http://www.pioneergunworks.com/technical-info/

then go to the "Frame Modification for 1866/73" instruction link.

It can be well above the level of a person who has never taken apart a 73 rifle, though!

 

If this is the problem, a workaround to let you shoot the gun would be to carry a stick (about pencil size) that you can push the FIRST round (last  round loaded) straight by putting the end of the stick through the loading date (like you were trying to "load the stick" into the magazine).  Once the cartridge is straight, the action will let you cycle it fully.  If the SECOND round also sits crooked, the problem is pretty severe, but the firing of the gun often provides enough vibration (jiggle) that the second and remaining rounds will cycle OK.

 

Having a cowboy gunsmith fix this will be simple.  Other gunsmiths won't even understand what you want them to do.  Beware!  Ask around the club where you are located for a local gunsmith who is "cowboy capable".

 

Sorry if no one informed you that almost all Cowboy guns from any factory will not have enough attention fitting the parts to run well, smoothly and quickly right out of the box.   These designs took hours of fitting at the factory back when they were originally made.  They still need individual parts fitting and smoothing, even if now they are made on CNC and robotic controlled machinery.  

 

good luck, GJ

[45 Cowboy Special ?]

Yep, I have a .45 auto rim die to seat and roll crimp my Cowboy 45 Specials.  Works better than a .45 auto taper crimp die!  good luck, GJ

[Feed issue with 1873]

Lifter looks like it is coming up a little too high - the top edge is well above the adjacent flat cut on the top of receiver.  This may be catching the lower edge / face of the bolt by contact with the lifter channel (it has a hole from back to front in it where the bolt runs going forward to chamber the round)  A catch here would interrupt forward travel at the position in the picture.  To test this, put a little thumb pressure pushing the lifter block down 1/4" while you try to lever.  Report back if this helps or does nothing.  If this is the case, you may see a bright shiny spot looking down at that channel in the carrier once you remove all rounds.  Let us know about the lifter carrier.

 

good luck, GJ

[New Grey Smooth WIN AA 12ga shotshell blowouts]

My guess on this  head cover ("brass") blowout is due to a part of the extractor body having been completely removed, leaving a gap right where the tears occur.  Some Baikal "work" has been done in the past that clipped off the upper extractor ears without pinning the cut-off ears to the barrel breech to hold pressure when the gun fires.   I mention Baikals specifically because they have an hour-glass shape on the extractors that wrap almost 180 degrees around the shells, and smith's think that will get in the way of fast easy extraction, so they "dehorn" the top section of the extractor - leaving an "unsupported chamber".  Other shotguns may have similar extractor designs.

 

Take a picture of the extractors as they sit down in the barrel breech (before they lift to extract)!

 

Yikes!  GJ 

[TTN Stock]

Abilene - Correct!  I was thinking of the other infamous gun from China, the 97 clone.  Parts for those dried up real quick after IAC got their last container, as well.

 

All this should remind folks that most of the smaller-market imported guns are subject to non-existent parts availability for many different reasons, including an embargo (Russia, China) or a financial crunch, a change of business direction, or just "bureaucracy."  If you buy a gun that is NOT a close clone of what was a widely made US gun, then you should probably get 2 or 3 and source your own parts from the safe when you need them.  I've already had to snag a butt stock for my old TTN from my new TTN.  Now I have to get back to trying to repair the head of that old stock where it rotted from previous oil soaked storage for years (before the receiver of the 1998 vintage TTN gives out)..

 

And, I patched in some beech to a short Baikal gunstock just like you have done.   Also, THAT one got covered with a leather butt cover, for appearances sake.

 

good luck, GJ

 

.

 

[TTN Stock]

All these comments should show you by now that a new replacement butt stock is hard to find.  IAC does not import these guns now, Norinco/subcontractor has  not made any since about 2011.   About the only possibility for a new stock would be sending off your short butt stock to a wood worker who can duplicate the stock while adding back the pull length you need.  That is common work in the gun stock business, but it's pricey - probably at least $600 for plain straight-grained walnut.  And some hand work will be needed most likely to fit the duplicated stock exactly to the action and finish the surface.  Unless you find a "junk" gun that still has a decent butt stock you can swap onto your gun.

 

good luck, GJ