Creeker, SASS #43022
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Posts posted by Creeker, SASS #43022
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9 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:
I was wondering who your 2 friends were.
Shhhh - they didn't know I considered them friends.
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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:
I don't like when you and I agree. It's not as fun.
Bull, I have found you're almost always in agreement.
With the wrong side of the argument.
And before anyone takes offense - I am friends with Bull and Tennesee Williams.
And as such - I reserve the rights in perpetuity to mercilessly argue with them the most minuscule and unimportant points.
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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:
Difference in wording and some of our conventions....
Stage instructions-
Starting position: Begin standing behind position 1 with one thumb on your nose.
This means- You are to stand at position 1 with 1 thumb on your nose. The rest of you must be at SASS default position because that is in our conventions. You may not have a thumb on your nose and be bent over double over your rifle.
Stage instructions-
Starting position: Begin standing behind position 1 at shooters' discretion with 1 thumb on your nose.
This means you are to stand behind position 1 with 1 thumb on your nose. The rest of your body may be other than SASS default position because of the specified "shooters' discretion".
This does not mean you can be touching gun(s) or ammo because those specific conventions weren't overridden by the wording.
So I have to partially disagree with Creeker.
And there are a fair contingent - even among the RO committee that agree with you.
I just happen to be one that doesn't.
The conventions were written to "fill in the blanks" when stage writers failed to do so.
They were NOT written to create additional /supplemental required instruction that must be absorbed into the existing written instruction.
Ill provide yet another analogy.
Stage convention:
Your breakfast will consist of cereal served in a bowl with milk, a glass of orange juice and a sliced banana.
Written instruction:
Your breakfast will consist of eggs and bacon, coffee and an apple.
My interpretation:
I'm getting eggs, bacon on a plate, coffee in a steaming mug and (hopefully) a green Granny Smith apple to bite into per written instruction. The stage convention is no longer applicable because of written deviation from convention.
IF we insist anything not SPECIFICALLY exempted by written instruction is still required per convention:
Your eggs and bacon MUST be served in a BOWL - as a plate (even tho thats expected for eggs and bacon) was not over ridden and MUST have milk poured upon it.
Your coffee MUST be served in a GLASS - a mug was not over ridden.
And no biting into the skin and tearing it part with your teeth because your apple MUST be sliced - because sliced was not over ridden.
Anyone besides me see the silliness here?
At some point - someone in SASS decided they were better stage writers than us and that (like a lot of the rules) "that just doesn't look right" - so they over stepped.
And many lazy stage writers - who seem to think that each letter on the stage instruction costs them money; grabbed hold of the concept to make defaults their standard default.
And then others conflate and intermingle the instructions so every staging, body placement and hand positioning must be lawyered to determine what was said - what may have been left out and what terms from the conventions they feel needed to be added.
The game is supposed to be easy.
And the conventions to create consistency when the stage writer failed.
Attempting to intermingle, parse and insert every word of the stage conventions into over riding writen stage instructions is not making it easier and is not making it more consistent.
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5 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:
Ohhhhhhhhhh..............Creeker and Bull..............going at it on the playground. Dis gonna be gooooood.
You can't cherry pick. You only capitalized ANYWHERE. Also have to include SAFELY. Stage conventions say long guns staged safe is flat. As TW said, if vertical, fence post, etc were to be included the instructions would have needed to say that. And that would be easy enough without requiring a tome. "Shotgun open and empty staged anywhere safely to include vertical, over the 2X4, etc."
IMO - Stage conventions only exist in the ABSENCE of an instruction.
That is 100% why stage conventions were created - that in the absence of a specific instruction or allowance; stage writers / shooters would be subjected to a default.
Stage conventions were not created to intermingle with the written stage instruction.
It is not required to parse and implement every word of the stage convention that the stage writer does not specifically exempt.
Written instruction OR stage convention; it is an either/ or situation.
This intermingling of written instruction AND stage convention is exactly why you see inconsistent application/ outcomes.
Attempting to combine written instruction AND stage conventions to extrapolate what exactly they are allowed to do.
Even to address your example;
shotgun/ rifle safely staged vertically at window.
IF that is what the stage writer provides - how do you reconcile that with the assertion that stage convention defines "safe" as lying flat and requires such to be safe?
You cannot.
As soon as ANY specific instruction is given; the written instruction over rides the stage convention that is applicable to that situation.
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36 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:
We're losing sight of the original issue. Instructions said "Open, empty shotgun staged anywhere safely." Stage conventions say safe staging of long guns is flat. They did not override the stage conventions. In my ever so humble opinion this should never have been an issue. Stage conventions say flat. Even without posse marshal instructions this SHOULD have been understood.
Have to disagree with you, my friend.
The stage conventions exist to provide direction in the ABSENCE of a given instruction.
The moment an instruction is given that offers ANY specified or POSSIBLE deviation from the stage conventions - the convention is then over ridden and the written stage instruction or allowance takes precedence in that instance.
Example - shotgun begins staged on left table; there is no specified or possible deviation from the stage convention - so lying flat is the default.
BUT - staged ANYWHERE safely offers that deviation from the stage convention. This opens up the possibility for vertical staging, staging on a fence post or hanging over a horse rail or two by four.
If you allow me to borrow your car and upon return - I know standard practice is your car is parked backed into your garage - and you don't say anything differently; I know that is where I am expected to place it. (that is stage convention).
If I borrow your car and YOU specifically add the caveat "Park it anywhere safely" - I no longer am expected to back it into your garage (I may still do so - but am no longer required to). By inserting an instruction that POTENTIALLY or specifically deviates from the norm - you have released me from adhering to the norm. (that is a stage specific over riding instruction or allowance).
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All games "change" - conditions, equipment, circumstances - some change in ways that allow records to be broken easier i.e. older NFL passing records get surpassed regularly because the game has changed to be more pass happy/ added games, etc.
Other games change in way that won't allow certain records to ever be broken i.e. Nascar cup wins - Pettys record of 200 career wins will never be broken; not because of his skill - but the number of races in a season in so dramatically less than in his era - not enough opportunities in a career anymore.
And do we diminish records for achievement because todays competitor is bigger, stronger, faster, better nourished and better trained?
Maybe all of Babe Ruth and Ty Cobbs records should still stand because todays players dare to exercise and are not smoking in the dugout?
The competitor can only compete under the rules and conditions that exist during their efforts.
We won't say that the Winners at EoT 2028 don't count or require an asterisk because the match was different in 2025 - "The targets were further out, there were 4 SIX shotgun stages AND it was raining - so obviously the 2028 match doesn't count for as much"
Recognize the achievement - don't denigrate the competitor because their accomplishments didn't occur under conditions they were not subject to.
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1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:
Yer bigger than me, so yes it’s legal
.
He aint that big - and I know for a fact he can't run.
And he's ugly.
And...
And...
And...
But the costume is legal.
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If I may...
I was not there; but I do know a thing or two about writing matches and handling posse walk throughs.
Two points:
IF a change/ clarification is required to the shooters book; this information is (should be) provided to the posse marshals via a written list (I never expected my posse marshals to take notes). The posse marshal should be referring to this list every stage and ensuring information is covered (sounds like most did their job well and those who did not should be quietly noted so they are not placed into this position again - that's the best you can do after the fact).
A simple sign or even colored paper posted at a stage is helpful to jog the posse marshal that a change is present and to refer to their notes. A like note can be placed in the scorebook at that stages scoresheet for further reminder.
2nd point:
"Sometimes" we worry about and attempt to fix things that dont require fixing.
The angled placement was (my understanding) required for a downrange movement to ensure muzzles were pointed into the berm.
So why worry about or create an instructional issue with initial staging as that is immaterial to the reason the angle exists?
Allow the shooters full latitude on issues that don't matter and focus on the issues that do - as long as the firearm is "restaged" in a safe for down range movement position; that's all you have to focus on and it avoids scrutiny and hurt feelings.
AND allows shooters to feel like they have another opportunity to set themselves up for their best performance.
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12 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:
I really don't care what gauge you shoot, but don't expect targets to get moved to accommodate small guns! They're close enough now based on the splatter that hits me! JMHO
If the targets aint shooting back - you aint getting the full old west experience.
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3 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:
Two part question.
1) Does anyone know why the minimum gauge for shotgun was set at 20 gauge for adults?
2) Given the recent resurgence of the 28 gauge and the availability of quality SxSs, would you support a rule change to allow it? If not, why? I personally think it would be a positive change particularly for some of our smaller and or recoil averse members.
Smokestack -
For number 1.
I don't "know" but like a lot of the traditions in this game; rules were established not for real cause - but because someone thought "it doesn't look right".
I'm sure someone, at some time, worried how it would look to other disciplines if folks were allowed to shoot small gauge shotguns.
number 2.
Proper equipment is self regulating - I see no competitive benefit or advantage to smaller guages (and I see major competitive disadvantage) so IF a person chooses to self handicap (or requires the accomodation) by the use of a less competive decision; I am not going to stand in their way. I would vote to allow.
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10 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:
Sometimes in line with the pistol targets at about 7 yards.
Now everybody gets sprayed with birdshot.
Move the shotgun targets to 10 yards or beyond and the backsplash is greatly reduced or eliminated.
You know how to really reduce back splash?
Move all the targets out to 300 yards - bingo bango - no splash.
Man, won't that be fun?
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Beautiful cart, Yul.
And a very fitting tribute to the Buffalo Soldiers and their contributions to our country.
And to Non Stop - to be held in as high esteem as Yul holds you is the greatest compliment. Congratulations on your new work of art.
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Costner is not a bad actor.
But any movie that he is in charge of...
A guarantee of bloated stories and extended runtimes.
The man does not understand brevity or concise story telling and I cannot watch his films.
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We have a limited amount of day and I have a limited amount of patience.
A slow shooter is one thing - but fiddle farting with gun repair/ ammo malfunction or equipment breakage is another.
If you are not making progress towards stage completion - once you have definitely exceeded the "maximum" time of a stage; I will gently direct you to complete what you are doing and move to the unloading table.
I am very sorry; but your desire to "complete" the stage or "be clean" does not over ride the necessity to best serve the other 20 shooters on the posse.
AND in most cases (at least at large matches) there is a expected time frame to get a posse thru the stage (generally TWO minutes BEEP to BEEP) - I am NOT going to force the other shooters to rush their enjoyment or preparation OR cause a posse backup because of one shooters equipment/ firearm/ ammo malfunction.
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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:
walk on the traffic side of the footway
This one I don't always do.
We walk side by side and we walk to the right side of the path (like driving traffic flow here in the US).
My wife and I often hold hands as we walk; and (even tho I am a Gunfighter) my dominant hand is my left.
So as my carry firearm is located on my left - I keep that hand free.
My right hand intertwined with her left allows me to maneuver her if needed - to place myself in a better defensive position or simply because I observe something she may miss (I tend to scan - she tends to sightsee).
And she has learned to react to very subtle moves on my part to ensure she is moving away from any danger (real or perceived on my part).
But this "always on my right" placement necessity does put my wife on the vehicle traffic side of the path sometimes.
I will admit to one inequality when we eat out - I am the one who chooses the booth and seating positions. And if taken to a table or booth by the host; I will request different if I am uncomfortable with the positioning.
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My wife and I are equals - I wouldn't be with a woman who deferred to me or required me to order on her behalf.
My "Gentleman" traits:
I open doors for her - she orders first.
I would kill or die for her - she would do the same for me.
Beyond that; we don't stand too much on ceremony.
That's our system.
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5 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:
I love the ‘62 Ford hardtops and convertibles.
Now I have to tell a story if you will indulge me. This is a long read - so I apologize.
My Mom and Dad knew each other most of their lives; went to school together - attended the same church as kids.
But were not sweethearts until much later - like Dads senior year of high school.
Or at least that is when my Dad got sweet on my Mom - Dad graduated high school in 1963, Mom in 1964.
Dad asked Mom out and while she says she always thought he was "cute" - he drove "a hideous green ugly car" (which I later found out was a 1948 Buick) and apparently my Mom was a bit of a diva and turned him down (yes, because of his car - but before you judge her too harshly; my Grandpa owned racecars and raced them in the NASCAR Grand National series - which was a regional series at that time {Gordie Johncock the Indy 500 winner was a family friend and would drive Grandpas cars from time to time} so Mom grew up surrounded by cool fast cars - a green Buick was not going to cut it).
So Dad went to the Ford dealer (his father was a Ford guy) and ordered a brand new 1964 Galaxie in black.
It arrived BUT it wasn't black - it was green.
Knowing Mom didn't care for the Buick and feeling uncertain about how she would feel about another green car - Dad refused it.
But on the used lot was another Galaxie - a nearly new 1962 Galaxie XL; whereas the 64 had been a stripper car - this 62 was equipped with almost every option available and "as luck would have it" basically the same price as he had budgeted for the 64.
Two door, 4 speed Fe Block 352 (sadly) and Dad was in love.
Asked Mom out again and she said yes.
But as kids are known to do - Dad drove it like a kid with his first cool car and dented it, blew up that engine and over time trashed the car.
Fast forward about 16 - 17 years (making it about 1980 or so) and now Mom and Dad have a 14 year old car crazy son and Dad decides he wants to get another Galaxie like the one he had "back then".
Mom and Dad had always remained in the car culture and Dad started making phone calls and putting out feelers - and like every hobby; someone always knows somebody who has something.
So we looked at cars - some nice, some junk - but never quite the right one.
(here's where I share the fact that my Dad lacked impulse control or any form of personal restraint).
Because my Dad - even tho he wasn't finding the "right" one - he wasn't going to pass up any nice "wrong" ones either.
So we bought Galaxies; a 6 cylinder 1961, a 4 door '62, a '63 1/2 427 car, a 4 door '63 352 car - heck, we stumbled across a 65 Falcon Ranchero that ended up folowing us home.
And then - we found it.
In a barn in Memphis Tennesee; a 1962 Galaxie XL 500 in off white, red white and blue tri tone vinyl seats, 390 automatic with factory three two bbl carb setup (yes, the very cool long oval aluminum air cleaner), factory cast iron headers - 26 thousand miles on it. Original owner had passed and his wife had parked it in the barn in 1967.
She had covered the car in burlap feed sacks and weighted them in place with wicker baskets - the burlap had set on the car so long that the paint on the hood, roof and trunk had molded into the burlap sack pattern. The interior vinyl was absolutely perfect excepting the thread holding the vinyl together had disintegrated in dust - so there were just strips of material lying together.
This car took us about a year to get corrected and back on the road - with all the issues you expect from a car that has not been driven for thirteen years (fuel system, brake lines, etc.) - amazingly the engine and drivetrain was the least hassle of anything other than fuel varnish in the carbs.
We found a talented interior guy that was willing to sew the original interior back together and we spent many hours block sanding and buffing to bring the paint back (did end up having to respray the roof).
Mom and Dad enjoyed that car for about 10 years - taking it to many car shows and winning a lot of trophies. Until one day, Dad just decided he was tired of it and knew someone that wanted it more than he did - and like that, it was gone.
As for the other cars?
The 1961 - my cousin bought that to fix up and I think it was parked at his place and never moved again.
The 63 1/2 427 car - I played with that one as a drag car and Saturday night cruiser for a while; 4:11 rear gear set - hi rise intake thru the hood with a Thunderbolt style teardrop hoodscoop.
Sadly was side swiped by a delivery truck driver - which peeled the sheet metal from the drivers side front fender all the way to the rear fender.
I sold it to another 63 owner to use the drivetrain for their car. I think we forced him to take the other 63 as part of the deal.
We ended up restoring the 4 door 1962 as a companion piece to Dads '62 and they sat side by side at carshows - but we didn't keep it that long. (funny anecdote about that car - I have owned motorcycles, many Corvettes, a few Z28 Camaros, that 427 Galaxie, a Porsche, a V12 Jaguar, the before mentioned 65 Ranchero (after a 302 V8 swap) etc. - a number of fast cars and bikes that I fully admit to having committed any number of moving violations. But that 4 door, 352 automatic, dog slow, old Galaxie is the car that I was busted in downtown Marshall Michigan for "Drag Racing" with - and even worse; I wasn't even racing - had to go to court and everything.)
As I mentioned - the 65 Falcon Ranchero ended up with a 302 engine and transmission swap out a Maverick Grabber.
Wasn't really that fast - but with no weight over the rear end was squirrelly enough to be a ton of fun and an instant smokeshow anytime you wanted it.
It also got me in trouble as I really wanted to drive it after the engine install, but I lacked an exhaust system - so as Dad and I had transitioned into building Corvettes by this time (another story) there happened to be a set of 1969 Corvette factory sidepipes hanging in our polebarn/ workshop. These ended up on the Ranchero - to which my Dad firmly pointed out to me that these side pipes were worth more than the entire Ranchero and would be coming off immediately when the Ranchero was ever sold.
I drove the Ranchero in primer for a while; but by then I had already acquired my first personal Corvette and my interest in the Ranchero eventually fell by the wayside (I had also realized by then that Chevrolets were so much EASIER to work on than Fords). It sat in our polebarn for a while until somebody asked about it and I sold it off (and yes, I removed the side pipes).
I know - I know; a long rambling story about a bunch of cars no one cares about, but thanks Abilene Slim for your 1962 Galaxie comment.
I'm lying in bed typing this next to my sleeping wife with a stupid smile on my face and happy tears running down my cheeks.
Thank you for sparking memories of cars and times with my Dad that I haven't thought of for a while.
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5 minutes ago, Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 said:
Where's the choice for the Nash Rambler?
My Dad owned a couple of them - I don't recall what year; but I recall one of their claims to fame was the front and rear glass was interchangable.
Actually had purchased one that was going to be a project when unfortunately he got sick for the last time.
We ended up selling it as a parts car.
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3 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:
Oops! I read too quickly
If we were perfect - they couldn't afford us.
I'm just glad someone knew what tri-5 meant.
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6 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:
I thought the “Tri-5” Chevys are 55-57. The ‘58 was significantly different in appearance.
You are correct - as you qouted; I prefer the 58 over any of the tri 5's.
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We used to get a lot of guns from Buds.
Our shop does a lot of transfers and getting guns from Buds was a nearly daily occurence.
But...
We had a transfer that for some reason Buds was unhappy about and Buds called our shop DEMANDING we provide them a copy of the 4473 paperwork.
We informed them that they had zero legal right to request this information or document and under no circumstances were we going to provide them with the 4473 or any information upon it.
They became belligerent and we told them to pound sand - that the firearm transfer was handled legally on our end and IF they had some reason to believe there was an issue - that THEY should contact the BATFE and report their suspicions.
We have discontinued all business with Buds.
We do not order from them and will not accept transfers from them.
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I've owned the Oldsmobile - well not a 57 - a 56 Olds 88.
The Chrysler 300 was indeed the FIRST true American Musclecar and definitely tempting.
I'm a Bowtie guy thru and thru; but out of the tri 5 Chevies - the 57 is not my favorite.
(always preferred the 58 Impala over any of the tri 5's to be honest).
But in this instance (and most of the time actually); if the choice is between a convertible and a solid roof car - I'm going with the rag.
I'm taking the Ford.
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70 degrees - perfect blue sky.
Motorcycle weather; took the Spyder out with Painted Lady and did about a hundred mile ride.
Rode up thru the National Park along Lake Mead and back south to Las Vegas.
Probably waved at a couple hundred bikes.
If its as nice tomorrow - might take another road trip with the top down on the Vette.
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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:
I use it more for a wipe down rust/corrosion protection than a lubricant. Works great for that.
+1
My opinion (and worth exactly what you pay for it).
Anything that can "run off" (lightweight liquid oils, sprays, etc.) are not viable lubricants (unless being replenished or replaced regularly).
Heat and movement will quickly displace any liquid lubricant - we use oil in the crankcase of your car because it flows into tighter tolerances AND will be replaced by the oil pump as it is displaced (and is within a closed system to scavenge the displaced oil)
And yes, we use oils (heavy weight) on non replenishment systems (such as a rear end gear housing - but again only in a minimal loss closed system; which a firearm is not)
In a non replenished open system - (comparable to a fiream) lubrication has to cling and remain in place under high heat and/ or high pressure.
For that purpose; we use non liquid lubricant (grease) that has greater tolerance gap fill AND will cling - grease also has limited migration properties.
For rust prevention (on firearms) I use a wipe down of oil.
In low stress areas (my 73, revolver cylinder pins, etc.) - I use white lithium grease for lubrication.
In high stress areas (semi auto slide rails, DA revolver internals, etc.) - I use Mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing grease.
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Eot starting position
in SASS Wire
Posted
Perfect.