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Creeker, SASS #43022

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Posts posted by Creeker, SASS #43022

  1. Add another JEDI GF as interested.

    And one with a slightly different pistol operation style than most.

    Also willing to teach - I'm not necessarily the fastest GF; but I am one of the best at reading, navigating and breaking down stages for the most efficient method of attack.

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  2. Apparently no one has ever watched "The Quick and the Dead" (Sharon Stone version).


    As "The Kid" asks when he takes down the Swedish champion, "Am I really that fast?  Or is Sweden just a really small country?"


    The Swedish Champion was champion because he was the fastest shooter FROM Sweden - not necessarily the faster shooter.


    One can be an EVENT Champion/ CATEGORY Champion in a given State, Region, Country without being a resident of that State, Region, Country - but you cannot be THE State, Region, Country champion if you don't reside within those borders.

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  3. Refurbish - Encourage film making to return after COVID - Provide low cost/ No cost filming locations for indie, college, low budget films - Bring in (after COVID) concert venues/ events/ gatherings that attract crowds and are maybe able to utilize both open spaces and / or buildings (car shows, ren faires, wild west arts, melodrama gatherings, etc.) - Real vs Reel museums and living history displays - Put in a spectator friendly shooting range and move Bordertown back to Tucson - The SASS staff just got displaced from Founders Ranch/ Move the SASS offices and EOT.


    According to the article - rent was $50k annual - that seems imminently doable with any promotion or visitor count as well.  Especially if any retail or office space could be created or further established within the grounds.


    Just a few quick ideas and there are a myriad of folks smarter than me.

  4. 5 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

    Inconsistent match. 


    At 6-3, my reach is significantly longer than someone 5'-nothing. So I have more leeway in where I can engage.



    That's why I don't care for the "within one step" or "If you can touch" directions. 

    The taller shooter with a longer stride already has a physical advantage covering distance - don't compound that by allowing them to cover less distance as well.



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  5. 47 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

    That's interesting.  I'll check with the regional matches to see which ones may allow shoot-throughs.  Thanks.

    Two points to keep in mind; if you do a shoot through...


    FIRST - you will be interacting with almost every shooter at the match.  "Some" may "resent" (maybe a strong term; but I have seen negative attitudes regarding shoot through shooters before) a non posse member walking on and asking for spotters and brass pickers, etc.

    SO as much as you can within the time confines of your stay on their posse - be the VERY BEST posse member possible.


    ANY duty available to you - take it on.

    Your reputation as a posse member and efforts will far outstrip any award you may pick up.


    SECOND - you will be shooting twice as many stages AND working twice as hard if you are attempting posse duties as well. 

    Be prepared with hydration, rest and sustenance.

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  6. 1 minute ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

    If this is true why do you list in your wire signature all the state and regional buckles you have won but not the monthly matches?

    Im not going to speak for Phantom; but...

    When he states, "No difference" - he is referring to the match operations, the rules, the nice folks you shoot with, etc.

    A shooter who safely and competently navigates a monthly can do so at a major.


    It would be the height of arrogance to deny that a larger match has more prestige to the wins or category/ overall placement and he is (rightfully) proud of his accomplishments.



    • Thanks 1

  7. I much prefer the instructions that I installed at Eldorado - that use upright markers/ barriers.

    Regardless of body placement - the rounds from a given gun must pass a designated side of a marker (usually a 6ft piece of pvc pipe standing upright).  


    This eliminates foot faults and "behind" subjectivity - if the rounds pass by the correct side of the marker/ barrier the shooter is good enough.


    It also more consistently places the shooter where you actually want them - negating the longer shooters ability of reach their gun from a further distance - because with barriers and correct target angles - they will still have to get body placement to where the rounds are passing the barrier correctly and the muzzle is directed to the target.

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  8. Eldorado - the SASS Nevada state championship utilized a "team" concept within the main match with the Battle of the States award.


    Basically; every state that fielded 10 or more shooters was eligible for inclusion.

    At the end of the match - the top 10 shooters from each state had their scores added together.

    The state with the lowest score was the State winner.

    With a 150 - 200 shooters this would usually yield 4 - 5 states in the running.

    Obviously a match could lower the required number from each state to increase eligibility if desired - but we found 10 shooters was pretty much the sweet spot.


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  9. 11 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:


    Perhaps you didn’t SAY “only” and  “just” in your post, but the tenor of it indicated those sentiments!


    We have had B Western and Gunfighter shooters come within a hair’s breadth of winning the overall world championship! Those  same shooters have won and continue to win State overalls and large annual matches. Discounting these as categories initiated because the participants couldn’t compete could be construed as a possible insult to some really great shooters!!

    When you try to attribute "tenor" and context that is not stated to another persons written word - you run the very real risk of twisting anothers words.


    Firstly; Im pretty sure Gunfighter is not a costume category.


    Secondly; I'm not questioning or demeaning the skill level of any specific participant in a costume category.  


    Anyone who places well at any shoot has my admiration and congratulations.


    But wearing silly hats or a handful of accessories - does not materially change the difficulty of a SHOOTING competition and is undeserving of its own award simply for the NON shooting component of wearing silly clothes.


    You may disagree - that's your right.

    But they don't award an additional trophy in a marathon simply because one runner makes the choice to wear dress shoes and convinces two other like minded folks that it might be fun.

  10. 3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

    Great... Now you just gave them another category idea. Just what we, Rocky Horror Hombre category.

    I like it.

    Rocky Horror Hombre.

    Frank-N-Furter Fishnet Frontier Cartridge.


    Riff Raff Rawhide....

    Hmm that might have some inappropriate innuendo


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  11. 11 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:


    @Creeker, SASS #43022Classic Cowboy differentiates on shooting based components, both style, caliber, and gun choice requirements, so I would not include it in your list. 


    But since there were EXISTING categories that easily and regularly accommodated the equipment, caliber and shooting style prior to the creation of Classic Cowboy - and the Dress up component of Classic is so stressed (afterall, I've seen pre shoot meetings to verify and count the dress requirements; yet I have never seen a shooter checking the caliber markings on their competitors rifle) it's existence is not justified by the equipment - but the attire.  


  12. 1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

    I think I said that it DIDN’T require a separate category!!


     As to the common sense statement, anyone with common sense wouldn’t claim that 90% of those involved see it only as a shooting competition, given that several categories have been campaigned for and eventually included, especially since by participating in some of those categories almost guarantees that the contestant will not win the match!!


    YES!!  It’s a shooting competition!  


    BUT!!  It’s not JUST a shooting competition!! By its own statement, SASS says so itself!!  To say otherwise flys in the face of common sense!!!

    Interesting method to twist words.

    I never said "ONLY"  a shooting competition

    Or "JUST" a shooting competition.


    And contrary to your implication - the people that most strongly lobbied for recognition to differentiate and separate DRESS UP categories were NOT primarily made up of folks who were in the running to win the match.


    That is EXACTLY why the lobbying was done; to provide folks who had little chance to win more heavily populated categories - yet another diluted category in which they might then "win" awards.


    You are more than welcome to dress up in spurs and fringe and bling to your hearts content, use your Marlin and Buscadero rig.  


    You are more than welcome to dress up in a silk wild rag, wear a Crocodile Dundee knife and leathers, use a 40+ caliber firearm.


    And you are more than welcome to dress up to epitomize the writings of Jules Verne or dress like a fevered nightmare of HG Wells.


    Shoot; dress up in a sun bonnet, prairie dress, red pigtails and call yourself Pippi Longstockings if you wish.


    No one cares - If it passes the cowboy eyeball test and makes you happy - go for it. 


    90% of the folks at a match are there for their personal enjoyment - not worrying about what underwear others are wearing.



    In a SHOOTING competition; your personal choices of ATTIRE are exactly that; CHOICES.

    If your choices hinder your performance AND you wish an award - make different choices.


    But stop with the prevailing attitude of,

    "I can't win within the existing categories if I dress up the way I want to - so YOU have to accommodate my wishes to dress up AND provide me opportunity to get an award."


    While I acknowledge everyone who shoots in a costume differentiated category does not do so solely to better their chances of winning something.


    I do feel that Classic Cowboy, B-Western, Steampunk, Transylvania Transvestite or any proposed category differentiations that sort and separate shooters by a NON SHOOTING component are suspect.

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  13. It is a shooting competition.  Period.

    We use a timer, count misses, keep score.

    You (as well as I) may enjoy the friendship and fellowship - but adding even more diluted opportunities for some to buckle have zero to do with that.


    Dress however you like - if it adds enjoyment to your event - do it.


    But don't for a moment attempt to convince me or anyone with an ounce of common sense that a top hat and goggles, a collection of gears glued to your rifle or a novelty outfit somehow hinders your ability to participate in a shooting competition so drastically that you require an additional category.

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  14. Dress as appropriate/ desired from the vast history of cowboys/ or old west characters. 


    Dress as appropriate/ desired from the vast history of film/ TV representation of cowboys/ or old west characters.


    Dress as appropriate/ desired from the vast history of written representation of cowboys/ or old west characters.


    Real or imagined - Historically correct or hysterically correct.  

    "If" an eight year old kid would look at you and say "that's a cowboy" - that is sufficient. 

    The only bonus points (which should hold no value other than ego stroking) are if the word "cool" precedes cowboy.


    Beyond that - I (and about 90% of the others in this game) don't care about what style boots, hat, shirt or underwear you sport.



    We feel the same way about your guns. 

    We dont obsess about the diameter of your bore or the color of your smoke.

    Don't care whether you shoot a Marlin, Burgess, Winchester or Henry (1860 or Big Boy).

    And we care even less if it's blue, brass, stainless, cero-koted or covered in steampunk gears.


    But what 90% of us do agree on - there are too many categories with meaningless (to a SHOOTING competition) rules and differentiations.


    Pick a propellent.

    Shoot your pistols supported, Duelist or Gunfighter.

    Pick an age category you are eligible for.

    Glance in the mirror after exiting the shower to determine your gender.

    And then dress in any appropriate manner you wish.


    But please stop asking for rules regarding something that needs no rules established and requires no differentiations.

    • Like 2
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  15. The Pietta GWII revolvers are great guns; but I have found the replacement parts (especially the cylinder pin cross latch as you noted) do not always fit well. 


    I had to replace the latch on Painted Lady's pistol and the initial fitment was exactly as you pictured.

    Thinking that perhaps I had ordered or received the wrong parts; I requested another set - that fit the same way.


    A little careful trimming and it now looks correct and still works correctly.  


  16. 2 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

    NAW a participation ribbon. Creeker

    I shoot a lefthanded 97 and it ejects from the left. 

    See, thats why I knew you didn't actually have a lefty 97 - I would have stolen it off your gun cart years ago.

    • Like 1

  17. Im a lefty myself; but I still position myself to the right side of the shooter.

    None of our guns eject out the left side - so to be in position for viewing malfunction - the right side is the only view.  

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  18. When Desert Scorpion stole my Codymatic - I replaced it with a Miroku 73.

    I removed the lever safety spring (I know all the risks - my Cody gun didn't have one and I was used to it).

    I trimmed down and polished the lever/ lifter springs.  

    Adjusted the screws to my liking.

    I hour glassed and polished the main spring.

    Looked for any rough areas in metal to metal (found nothing significant) - lubed the gun up with white lithium grease and ran it.


    The only other thing was

    fixing the front sight (tiny) bead.

    I haven't had any issues.


    And while admittedly it's not as smooth as a quality gunsmith could make it - I have found that I'm not the definition of smooth either; so all I really require is a gun that operates properly without stutters or hangups.


    These gorgeous, silicone coated ice sliding across glass, action jobs would be wasted on my ham handed rifle handling and lack of ability to take full use of them.

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  19. There are always two ways to look at "participation" trophies/ recognition.


    One way is, without a competitor to compare your score too - the award is meaningless. 

    The mindset being:

    A competitor will always seek out a category to find competition.


    The other is, the shooter shot the match to the best of their abilities and deserves whatever position that performance places them.

    The mindset being:

    It is not the responsibility or fault of the existing shooter that no one else chose that category on a given day. 


    Neither school is wrong and neither is entirely right either.


    But I lean on the side of trophies/ ribbons/ etc. are cheap and while for some they may mean nothing - for others, they are important.


    I always try to avoid diminishing or minimizing another shooters accomplishment regardless of my personal opinion.  


    As a fellow local shooter often said, when a shooter would train wreck, crash and burn their match...

    "Look around you - there are a million plus people who could have been here today - but for whatever reason, they are not.  You beat every single one of them that didn't show."




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  20. 7 hours ago, J.C. Smoke, SASS #22300 said:

    I have said this many times the gun was not designed with a stick in it  .I have two HENRYS one in 45 and one in 44/40 never use a stick and the 44/40 only shoot B/P in it just saying man up boys 

    The Henry wasn't designed in those calibers either.

    Nor was it designed for use in a game.


    So if you're going to play the "only as designed" card - you'd probably need to be shooting 44 rimfire.

    And be firing those shots in anger at an enemy during the battle between the states.  Or at minimum during the Indian wars.


    So with the above in mind - perhaps "as designed" or how it was used in 1860 is not really germane to todays discussion of a tool being adapted and used in a make believe game.

  21. 7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

    I say my own line...and to hell with everyone that don't like it!!!!





    Thats the way it is supposed to be.

    Conformity is for sheep; not cowboys.


    A starting line may have a myriad of purposes; a joke, add ambiance, has meaning to the shooter, etc.

    But the primary purpose for the starting line is to simply notify the TO that the shooter is prepared to engage the stage.


    I will always include a starting line (or starting action; ring the bell, toss the knife, etc.) because I believe it is inappropriate for the TO to try to start the stage prior to the shooter signifying their readiness.


    But "requiring" a specific sequence of words is unnecessary and contrary to the idea of everyone enjoying the match in their own way.


    Anything from a Shakespearean monologue to "ready" serves the same purpose.

    And all should be equally valid.


    (Tho, speaking as a TO - the shooter that performs "To be or not to be" or a vaudeville routine should be prepared for a "Are you done now?" before the "shooters ready" and beep)

    • Like 3

  22. 5 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

    So now we have to wait for the grammar police to wave their "educated" hand on how we write stages. Maybe we form an extension of ROC. First we conduct spelling tests. Then we begin with basic punctuation. Then sentence structure and composition.

    I never said we hadn't modified the use of the word hand or hands in the stage instructions. My reference was to a challenge made by a shooter who wanted to only put one hand on a gun. And the other on his ammo.


    Go teach a class somewhere. We're going to shoot with our hand.

    I don't think this is about grammar policing - It is simply about adults using correct language; and by use of correct language - clearly communicating their desired outcome to other adults.

    If you are that determined to combine singular and plural - please continue to do so. 

    It does not affect me... 


    Actually that is untrue.

    I was torn between attending Roop County next month or traveling to Salt Lake City for the Utah State event.

    But since I am unwilling to learn a new and incorrect version of the English language - Your input has been imminently helpful in directing my decision.






  23. 55 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

    We went through this at our club awhile back. Shooter said instructions said hand on gun. It was resolved with some application of out language. We gave the interpretation that hand meant hands because;

    'Can you lend me a hand" which is both not one.

    'Let's give him a hand'. Thats 2 not one.

    Just to be pedantic - Hand means singular; the addition of an "S" is required to make it plural.

    Words have specific meanings and pretending otherwise does no service to any.


    Your buddy falls and requests a "Hand" up - the singular of hand has been asked for (with the absence of the plural S); also supported by the letter "A" preceding hand (indicating a single item).

    A bank robber requests "HandS up" because he specifically desires BOTH hands in the air.

    And as for let's give him a hand? 

    Hand is being used as a synonym for perhaps applause or providing assistance (which could be as diverse as lending a tool, providing emotional support or giving financially) - not strictly referring to a hand or hands (or the use of either) within the context.


    If you want a specific outcome from your instructions - provide specific instructions and do not require a shooter to understand your precise intentions if you refuse to state it clearly.

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  24. A good match director will eliminate the Nannyism from SASS default by writing:

    "In the absence of a defined starting position - We use the club default of SHABPOC (Shooters hand and body position of choice) not touching guns or ammo"

    If there is a defined starting position; it means exactly that which is defined (rifle in hands, pistol in hand, hands on hat, shooter in doorway etc.) the rest of the shooters positioning is covered by the club default of SHABPOC.


    This allows EVERY shooter to prepare for their gunfight in the hand and body position that best suits them or their category.

    And eliminates the foolish requirement of SASS SULAI (Standing upright like an idiot).


    Imminently fair to all - as all are allowed the body position of THEIR choice.

    And no one gets to complain that standing upright was handled differently on Posse 1 than it was on Posse 4.

  25. I'm assuming you were ok with providing the targets, stands, etc. originally (or at least on board with idea)

    So lets start on the condition that you never thought you would be reimbursed for said targets - you just want to safely keep the club alive and functioning.

    (and going off your OP - it seems your concern is more about replacing the current targets than recovering funds)



    You have a dozen shooters (give or take) at a monthly -  charging $15 per with $10 per head going to the range.

    So how do we purchase new targets on a monthly income of $60?


    Let's look at your target needs - 12 shooters in ONE posse

    (means only a need of ONE bays worth of targets {yes, it will limit arrays and may require target resets during a match - but better than closing down})


    You can creatively set a single stage (in multiple different arrays with as few as 8 plates)

    You already have stands (I assume) so we are only talking about plate replacement.

    And you may be able to repurpose some existing plates for  while - so full replacement may not be required.



    A single 4x8 sheet of AR500 - will yield eight 24x24 plates.

    Shotgun targets can be repurposed AR400 plates or replaced with a couple boxes of clay pigeons - used singly as static targets.


    Or you can go smaller plates (simply keeping the club safe and viable, remember?) {just set them closer}

    8x8 AR500 from Midway are only $29/ per


    Sell your "Overly" damaged plates for scrap - purchase what you can (even if smaller) with those funds.

    Raise match fees to $20 for a 100% increase in funds

    Seek out local sponsors for matches or targets (is there a steel supplier anywhere near?  Might be able to give you a deal or sponsorship or minimally repurpose their scrap for you)

    Local gun shops might sell you clay pigeons at cost or sponsor.

    A local gas station or convenience store might provide water or a few funds (especially if a lot of the cowboys stop there regularly for soda or coffee before or after the match)

    Any local cafe your shooters frequent after the matches?


    We are simply looking for funding - don't care where it comes from.







    • Like 5
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