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Phantom, SASS #54973

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Posts posted by Phantom, SASS #54973

  1. 1 hour ago, Coyote Kid, SASS#54714 said:

    I had my Marlin Cowboy Comp done by Slick Maclaide about 6 years ago.

    It runs smooth as silk, feeds any OAL .38 spl and even cycles empty brass.

    Now I hope I didn't jinks myself saying that.

    Coyote Kid

    Not short stroked... More than likely.



    • Like 1
  2. 49 minutes ago, Blind Squirrel said:


    Would you happen to be able to provide a link to this Taylor's

    Look up Taylor's and Co. Firearms ... Google works.


    Dealers should sell cheaper than going direct as Taylor's doesn't like to compete with their distribution channel.



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    • Thanks 1
  3. 4 hours ago, Flat Top Okie said:

    Hello All,

    Less than 24 hours since registration opened and we have well over 500 signed up and applications still processing. This is the link to the shooter list: 2024 Shooter List as of 1-2-24 Please make sure you are listed if you have registered and look for your friends or any friends missing who may have forgotten. We only have room for a couple hundred more. Thanks again for your support.

    Flat Top Okie

    I knew you guys liked me...I don't care what others say. For you have me listed twice.


    One of me is just never enough I know.



    • Haha 6
  4. 12 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    However, we disagree on just how much difference that they can and do make overall.  So, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree!

    You're right...I believe 12 seconds makes a difference...based on Championship Match Results. You base your opinion on...what exactly?


    12 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    I did look up last year's scores from Guns of August (our big regional match around here) and it was scored by total time, rather than by rank score, so I concede that one to you and learned something as well.

    It's been a SASS rule for 7 years!!!!! Where have you been?


    13 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    Anyway, at least in my opinion, if you think someone is beating you because their handguns and rifle are short stroked, then you should probably spend the money on the modifications, but to say that someone can't be competitive without them is just plain wrong.

    Strawman!!! No one has claimed this. Why do you still?


    14 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    If you feel the need to be "Top Dog" then this sort of thing could indeed make a big difference, for the rest of us it's rather a moot point.

    Then you haven't looked at EOT/Land Run results. So again you're basing this on what exactly? Just your gut feelings?


    Or are we in the Cowboy Shooting world now accepting each other's "Truth" as being the law of the land...?



    • Like 1
  5. 1 hour ago, Assassin said:

    What's  Strawmaning?

    So, you're  telling me that the consistent 40 second shooter will miraculously become a 39 second shooter by investing $1000 in short stroking his/her guns. Me thinks, not.

    One must shoot at a certain level or speed in order to potentially gain time. Just because the gun is capable doesn't mean the shooter is capable of shooting or cycling the actions.


    I'd be happy if any of my POS guns even made it through a match. I should just sell them all and buy a new sawmill. 


    Most shooters I know aren't  running SS'd pistols. Only reason I have a pair was I wanted a pair of birdheads and I got a good deal and they happened to be SSSS. (stainless steel short strokes). I don't know if they are quicker. Is there a test we can try at the next match.

    It's not really a word...I made it up. But if it was a real word it would mean the act of one using a Strawman argument.


    The degree of time saving will increase over time until until it peaks...then it'll go down hill as one becomes old and arthritic. However, if one's thumb moves less distance with a SS in order to preform the same function, then it's impossible...or shall I say highly unlikely that time will not be saved. This time savings may be infinitesimal. Rifle SS's may have a more dramatic impact on time.


    Then there's the issue of comfort particularly for folks with smaller hands. So they may benefit from additional time savings. 


    So I conclude that there is a time savings of varying degrees. To bring up the fact that there are other things that can and do improve one's times is irrelevant to the question at hand. If the question is where to best spend one's money to better one's times...that's a matter of opinion. Going to a lot of matches is probably the best...but if you think THAT'S cheap...the government allows (for business), a write off of 65.5 cents/mile. I drive 160 miles round trip to a local match. So for me to shoot a monthly ends up costing me about $125 + ammo...for 6 stages...about 100 seconds...cheap!!!!



  6. 38 minutes ago, Assassin said:

    I'll throw my 2 cents in, have to agree with Bud.

    Short stroked anything will probably only help those that shoot in the top 10-15%. Anyone below that level is still trying to cut seconds rather than fractions of seconds. In order to gain seconds, work on fundamentals. One glitch or hiccup and there goes the time gained with SS'd guns, multiple hiccups adds multiple seconds. Once that goal is reached join the arms race and spend the money on SS's. 


    You guys keep thinking it some kind of Zero Sum game...


    Want proof? Just go to Land Run results from this year and you'll see that many folks would have placed much higher if all they did was remove the silly 12 seconds from their time. You can skip the first 105 shooters if you want to eliminate the top 10-15%.


    Your argument is that there are other things that can account for more of a time savings...well...yeah...duh! 


    Also, the "arms race" is over. SS pistols have been around for a looooong time. The minimum travel distance for the rifle lever was established a looooong time ago. All that might be going on now is...what? Trying to make things...smoother...??? What's left? If there's an "arms race", what exactly are they developing for Cowboy Shootings that'll cause folks to rush out and upgrade their equipment?


    Please quit Strawmaning us. The fact is that SS's CAN save time. Take that for what it is. It's NOT saying that other things can't save you just as much time or more. Of course they can. But this is not the issue.



    • Like 1
  7. 55 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    I think it's wrong to imply that one can not be competitive without short stroking everything.

    I'd love to see where anyone stated this...and then of course you'd have to define what is meant by "competitive".


    57 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    This is especially true with Newbies and my initial point was that their money might be better spent on more ammo and effective practice rather than heavily relying on equipment modifications to improve performance.

    Interesting comment...using the phrase "heavily relying". Don't think anyone state here...again...that one should weigh modifications over practice...let alone weigh heavily. 


    59 minutes ago, Bison Bud said:

    but a short stroked set of handguns and/or rifle is just a small and expensive part of improving one's overall performance and at least in my opinion not nearly the advantage that some here seem to think.

    Can't argue with one's opinion. My opinion happens to differ with yours.


    1 hour ago, Bison Bud said:

    I guess I have been out of it for a while now do to health issues, but I had no idea that they stopped using rank scoring, could you give me some idea when this actually happened, because it was a big issue just a few years back.

    I think it's been about 7 years.



    • Like 2
  8. 1 minute ago, Bison Bud said:

    While I understand your point, I stand by my statement that "if your good enough for it to make a real difference, then have at it."  When I shot regularly, I considered myself to be competitive and generally placed in the top 20 to 50 overall at the big matches and even won some Gunfighter categories (primarily when Lassiter and/or Mad River Marty didn't show up).  However, there is also a difference in rank scoring and total time scoring.  Most, if not all the big matches I attended were scored by rank scores on each stage and I can't really say that 12 seconds overall (less than a second on each stage) would have made much of a difference in my overall or category score at these matches.  I guess total time is used more in local matches and it might make a real difference there, but all in all it really is more what one gets used and shooting smart that makes the real difference.  Good luck and good shooting to all.   

    12 seconds makes a huge difference...period.


    First, Rank Point Scoring is no longer used so is irrelevant to the discussion. But even if RP was being used, 12 seconds would make a huge difference unless one had a grenade run on a real fast stage.


    Secondly, of course becoming "used" to one's equipment is important. But again, that's irrelevant when we are comparing the actual performance of different equipment. Just as shooting "Smart" and transitions are important to doing well...as is staying hydrated...etc.


    Look, if you agree that the SS 73 saves time, why not just leave it at that???



    • Like 2
  9. 1 hour ago, Bison Bud said:

    Marlin, which is basically stock, show very little difference or advantage either way (it averages to less than 1 second unless it's just a straight up dump target and that's only a bit over 1 second).

    First, Marlins have a shorter stock stroke then a 73


    Secondly, if the average is just under a second faster and you're at a 12 stage Championship match...that's almost 12 seconds. 12 seconds is HUGE!!!!!





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