For those the put on matches that sell out in a very short time.

[Sedalia Dave]

 

 

This idea was stolen from another event that sells out in hours as a way to reduce the stress and flustration level of your customers and reduces the load on your web page.

 

Instead of having all your customers vying to get registered as soon as it opens, why not do a lottery? This way those that have slow internet, have to work, or spend hours trying to get the registration website to respond, have a chance to actually attend popular matches.

 

How it works is allow a a set time frame from a day up to a week for people to register. After that time close registration and choose who gets to attend via a random lottery of everyone that registered. Those that do not win go on a waiting list in random order as well. For those that have spouses that shoot or even large families make it an all or nothing chance. If one wins then they all win. If their name is drawn and there are not enough spots left then they all loose out and another name is drawn until all the available spots are filled.

 

Do on range camping the same way.

 

It would greatly reduce the flustration of trying to register before the match sells out and it would reduce the strain put on the hosting club’s web page.

 

Just an idea

[Blackwater 53393]

The first major drawback that comes to mind is shooters who have shot the particular match for several years and have made it a destination in their annual travels!  I have been to every  one of a certain match since the beginning. There are a couple of others that I only missed because I was medically prevented from attending!

 

How would you tell folks in that situation that they didn’t make the cut??

 

The match I referenced and another one that is no longer put on, I have/had semi-permanent lodging, often supplied entertainment, and frequently vended as well!  If I, (not me, but someone else trying to get into your event) was not a lottery winner, would I feel, and maybe rightly so, like Blackwater got special treatment??

 

Just a thought…

[Blackwater 53393]

Another thought.

 

If you’re in the lottery and receive an invitation, but you have a spouse and a couple of kids, or you travel to matches with a certain group of shooters, (I used to travel with a group that had joint interest in a trailer and booked matches as a group) and they weren’t drawing winners, do we get moved to the end of the line and ultimately lose our spots, or does the group make the cut and the remaining available spots get decreased or do we get held until the drawing is completed and then allowed or not because the individual winners get preference?

 

We’d get together and send all of our applications in one package when we wanted to go to a particular event. How would that work??

 

Think of this as a constructive inquiry!😜

 

*NOTE: We once attended a major regional event where there were enough of us to make up an entire posse!*

 

 

Edited August 3 by Blackwater 53393

[T-Square]

Why not just expand the number of attendees?  If there is a will, there is a way. Why spend the energy on "we can't" when we'd all be better off with "what if" ?

 

Nothing on this earth is standing still. It's either growing or it's dying. No matter if it's a SASS match or a human being"......some famous western historical football coach quote.

 

Let's think outside the box, Like when the sign says "No food in the Gym"  - why not add garbage cans and have supplies for clean-up, so the spectators can enjoy themselves??!

Let's add some shooting bays, write faster stages, get a larger banquet hall, strike a deal with the local landowner for some additional camper spots  - you got this man !! The more, The merrier !

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

A lot of venues have certain limitations to what they can handle. Parking, number and size of posses that they can reasonably accommodate.

[Blackwater 53393]

T Square! Those are all fine suggestions. Three major drawbacks are involved.

 

The first and most obvious is finding the funds to pay for more property or infrastructure. Most clubs exist on membership fees and whatever profits they can make from monthly matches and, if they’re able to put one on, an annual match of some sort!

 

 The next issue is personnel! Our club has a great bunch of volunteers that give their time and skills to make things happen. That’s often not the case! Smaller clubs means less manpower! So you have to pay someone for getting things done or they don’t get done and that takes us back to the money.

 

Many clubs are located where additional land is either already occupied or very expensive!  I know that the property on either side of our home range is beyond the means of the club! Our late benefactor offered much more than the going rate for the place next door and he was financially more than able.  Since he has passed, we’ve maintained a facility with fifteen bays sporting permanent structures and a yearly attendance at our state match in excess of 225 shooters. We make improvements constantly.

 

There’s limited area for more parking, so running a second wave would be difficult.  This match has won the “Wooly” award and sells out every year! We’ve learned to “live within our means” and still produce an extraordinary match! I haven’t been able to help out much for the past few years due to health issues, but having been a member of the board of directors for a decade, I can assure you that it’s not as simple as you might think!

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3 by Blackwater 53393

[Rye Miles #13621]

12 hours ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

A lot of venues have certain limitations to what they can handle. Parking, number and size of posses that they can reasonably accommodate.

This is true at many of the shoots I attend. There’s only so much room for parking and camping. 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

This is true at many of the shoots I attend. There’s only so much room for parking and camping. 

My wife and I are now retired and travel to many out-of-state matches.  Participation has decreased enough that even most well-known matches are not sold out.  However, onsite camping is often limited, especially if there are RV hookups.  These camping sites are rightfully reserved for match officials.  Parking is sometimes limited.  There is usually insufficient handicapped parking.  Our sport appeals to older shooters, many with mobility problems.  I think status quo is adequate with match organizers dealing with the limitations of their facilities adequately.

[T-Square]

Thanks for all the comments. Every one of those concerns is real, and they're the same obstacles many clubs are wrestling with today.

 

I guess I'm just wired to ask a different question: How do we overcome those challenges?

 

As was mentioned earlier, even a saddlebag full of gold won't solve every problem. Some of these issues can't be bought away—they have to be solved with creativity, determination, and a willingness to think a little differently.

 

Maybe that means knocking on the next rancher's door and asking if we can use a pasture for a week to add two dozen dry camping spaces. Maybe it's paying volunteers instead of hoping they'll magically appear. Like the old saying goes, you usually get what you pay for.

 

Not every match is meant to be End of Trail, and not every shooter wants to attend a huge event. Some folks love the intimacy of a small monthly match. Others enjoy the excitement and spectacle of a big state or regional championship. There's plenty of room on the trail for both. 

 

I ask; If the large shoots sell out quickly, and a Club match struggle to get two posses - what does that tell you ??  Is one event more exciting and the other boring or lame?  Or does everyone just want to go to visit OKC in October,  every year, and hit the local sass match ?!

 

I certainly don't claim to have all the answers. What I'm advocating is a mindset—one that looks for possibilities instead of roadblocks. Around the Old West, if a wagon hit a washout, the pioneers didn't camp there forever complaining about the hole. They found another way across.

 

Our game faces the same choice today.

 

There's an old business saying: "If you're not growing, you're dying." It may sound harsh, but there's truth in it. One day you'll look around and realize your club didn't age one year—it aged twenty. The cowboys and cowgirls who built it are hanging up their hats, and the campfire is getting mighty quiet.

 

I don't know how old you'll be when you decide to call it quits, but until that day, I'd rather spend my time figuring out how to grow this game than explaining why we couldn't.

 

So let's keep our powder dry, our minds open, and keep looking over the next ridge. 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I have attended many matches from Virginia to Florida and Texas.  I live in Georgia.  Some matches are 700+ miles.  Towing a camper requires multiple camping reservations in addition to match camping.  I try to register early and get my other camping reservations lined up months in advance.  If a match collects all the applications and then does a lottery when they feel like they have them all, this is going to complicate/delay my trip planning.  I try to shoot 8 big matches a year.  I might even avoid dealing with a match that conducted a lottery.

 

If I register late and the match is full and I end up on a waiting list, then that's on me.  Get the registration in earlier next time.

 

1st come, 1st served keeps it simple for everybody.  

[Blackwater 53393]

We have, as I said before, “learned to live within our means”! We have monthly matches year round and a mid-month match that includes a separate Wild Bunch match. There’s often a mid-week “Work Shirkers” match, a black gun or a pistol caliber carbine match, the annual Regulators’ Reckoning” SASS State Championship match, and this year we’re hosting the Wild Bunch State Championship as well. Monthly attendance is good, sometimes fielding three posses or more!

 

The club is solvent and I understand that the membership is growing. It’s not likely that the footprint of the facility will ever be expanded. Between active farming and residential development expansion, the property is not available!  There’s little, other than maintenance and replacement construction, that we can do to improve the range.  We put on a great state match and our monthlies are written and put on with major match level competition in mind. We consistently provide a top quality banquet for our state match, (some folks attend just for that) and we have great side matches and “on the range” activities to go with it! We encourage vendor participation and we usually have an outstanding vendors’ row.

 

Many of our members travel as ambassadors to other matches and we often donate free shoots to other clubs as prizes for their matches!!

WE WORK AT IT!!

 

[T-Square]

@Blackwater 53393  WarTrace is one of the finest.  I'd still come if I had to stay down the road in a hotel !  wait, I did that and I almost got kidnapped for Bonaroo !!

@Badlands Bob #61228 Agreed Bob.  I'l just learning this wagon train adventure, and I certainly appreciate all your wisdom and helpfulness.  Like you, I'm planning a year in advance, so we can visit some of the sites along the way.  If you want reservations in a National Park, you need a year to make park reservations.

[Toranado, SASS # 58447]

"How do we overcome these challenges"?   Work harder.

 

Because the things/events that many people really want to attend are worth the effort it takes to get it.    There are very few shoots anymore that sell out that fast. (Bordertown used to be and I think they still had openings weeks after)   But for those that do, it's the effort that makes it worth it!   We waited in line for important concert tickets back in the day, and now you wait on-line.   If there's a hot new item at the store, you wait in line.  You wait in line at that busy restaurant that everyone wants to go to.   That's life in America and in a democratic/ capitalistic society.  It takes effort and a little work, no one is ENTITLED to be given an option for entry.    If I really want to go to a shoot that may sell out, I register that first day of registration.  For Bordertown, we overnight mailed our applications or found someone near there to turn our applications is.   This is how you overcome these challenges.  Sorry, I'm not interested in a system that someone who is forgets or lazy and wants to register weeks or a month before a match gets the same opportunity as I do who committed on day one.  Not interested in socialism.

 

It's just like shooting.   You used to have to practice hard and work on your game to win a buckle at a match.  Only the top shooters used to have buckles, but everyone wanted one.    So instead of making people work hard and practice.   HOW DID THEY OVERCOME THAT CHALLENGE, they started giving more out and events became more costly.  I was at Hell on Wheels on year a decade ago and they gave everyone a belt buckle at registration.    Now a belt buckle means nothing. I was recently at a shoot that gave buckles to over 50% of the shooters.  Pick your category wisely they say I guess.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

My idea was directed at those matches that have online registration and the available slots fill up in less than a day.  Not matches that take a week or more to fill all the available slots. 

 

The same flustration occurs with on range camping. 

 

It's aggravating to have to find reliable internet on the road at just the right hour in a futile attempt to get registered for an event. I have some friends that belong to a group that put on some really nice rallies. In the beginning getting signed up was not hard. Now if you don't get in and registered within the first hour of registration being opened you cannot get a spot. The rallies were a great perk of membership however their popularity has made them such a hassle to sign up for that my friends were considering  cancelling their membership as the work is not worth the reward. As an answer to the issue this year the club changed the process and members have 72 hours to submit their application. At the end of the 72 hour window the website shuts down and all the applications go into a pool and are drawn at random. 

 

Since Covid I'm not sure if any matches still sell out that quickly. I do remember not too long ago that a big match's web server crashed because so many people were trying to get registered in the first few hours to ensure they were able to attend. 

 

Back when everyone mailed in their applications I can remember a few big matches where entries were sorted by post mark and not the day the application actually arrived. Given the current state of the postal service, relying on postmarks puts a lot of people at a great disadvantage. I've sent letters as tests to friends and inquired about the postmark. In some cases the letter was postmarked up to two days after I put it in the slot at the post office. In others the date was illegible. I've found the only reliable way to get a postmark is to wait in line and ask that the letter be hand cancelled. That is if you can get them to even do it. Some postal clerks refuse to hand cancel letters. I no longer put Mail in my box because it doesn't get picked up unless I also happen to get mail. Even with the flag up the carrier doesn't stop. I Don't trust the big blue mailboxes anymore either as I have found them to be hit or miss when it comes to actually being emptied.

 

 

Edited August 4 by Sedalia Dave

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

"How do we overcome those challenges?"

 

Regarding camping: cut a deal with a nearby commercial campground for a discount rate for match participants.  SASS did that for EOT at Founder Ranch.  I camped with shooters as my neighbors.  It was better than camping onsite because there was no generator noise, full hookups and a swimming pool.  The 4-Corners Regional cut a deal with a nearby Texaco Travel Stop for free RV dumps for shooters (RV fill-up requested).  Land Run contracts with a septic pumping service to dump RV wastewater during a match.  This allows campers to get through weeklong match without skipping showers and relying on nearby outhouses.  Match officials can do much to make camping a better experience.

[Jet]

I like the online registrations, other than a massive event like EOT I've never known one to sell out that fast, then again I've only done a couple of large events and only one sold out.  I rarely use a check book, so to send in registration by mail I'll typically have to go to the bank to have a check issued by them, I also hate having to wait for weeks for someone to cash a check.  However, for those who don't like the lottery system, which I'm not a fan of either, there is the option like say San Diego Comicon uses, attendees from last year get first dibs, then everyone else.  Which is also not very fair.  Post marked letters, like stated above, is unreliable.  Extending the event to more days, relies on more volunteers or paying people, which raises entry fees and that's if the range isn't already being used for other services/groups.  I don't think there's an easy solution and like some of the others I'll be a little more nomadic in retirement and may not have reliable cell/internet services while travelling to register for events.  Most of the events around me have still done mail in registrations with checks, only two this year that I'm registered for or trying to register for were or will be online.  And yes I'm worried I won't get in for EOT, I really want to shoot it and I've never been, already reserved a camping spot and I'm looking forward to the adventure of driving out west again.  Overall, there is no easy solution, what's there now works good for the clubs and the way they operate.  Online registration is more than some clubs can/want to handle, other clubs it's what works best for them.    

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

26 minutes ago, Jet said:

  And yes I'm worried I won't get in for EOT, I really want to shoot it and I've never been, already reserved a camping spot and I'm looking forward to the adventure of driving out west again.

I predict you will get in and enjoy a match with lovely props.  I do not predict every shooting day will have dry weather.  I assume you will take I-40 across the US.  Schedule a few extra days of travel as there can be winter weather problems anywhere along your route.

[Jet]

That's the plan, I had planned on a few extra days anyways for some tourist stuff along the way and to visit a friend in Phoenix.  

[Vail Vigilante]

I know one of the big non-CAS matches I have been considering has a lottery.

Its a real put-off.

[Jack Spade]

I wouldn't bother applying for a match that has a lottery.  There are plenty of matches to choose from.