Standard Manufacturing vs USFA vs Colt.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Back in the day, it was not uncommon to hear people say that the USFA copy of the Colt SAA was every bit as good as a Colt, and many asserted that it was better.  It was also criticized for being just as expensive as real Colt, even though it was a copy, and it was often loudly stated that a USFA would never hold its value the way a Colt does.

Well, we all know how that turned out.

Now, today, we have the Standard Manufacturing copy of the SAA that a quick check of their and Colt's website, shows that they retail for the exact same price to start, and that depending on some factors, the Standard can apparently be much MORE expensive than the Colt.

Shades of USFA all over again.

And yet...

I don't see a lot of commentary about the Standard.   In fact, I read almost nothing about it.  No assessments as to its quality, no lamentations about its price, no nothing.   And in fact, while I often saw USFA's in various stores, I have never even SEEN a Standard.  All of this makes me wonder; do they actually exist?

Has anyone ever had a chance to handle one?  Does anyone here OWN one?   If yes, how do they stack up?

It all adds up to an strange phenomenon in my mind, and I don't know what to make of it all.

Anybody else wonder about all of this?

[DukeSoprano]

There is numerous Standards on Gun Broker, I heard that their customer service is horrible, keep in mind that is just something I read.

For the price, I would rather buy a Colt over a Standard, USFA on the other hand, I just coughed up $2000 for a rare one. My problem is that I like having Single action revolvers in pairs 😂

[Rye Miles #13621]

20 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Back in the day, it was not uncommon to hear people say that the USFA copy of the Colt SAA was every bit as good as a Colt, and many asserted that it was better.  It was also criticized for being just as expensive as real Colt, even though it was a copy, and it was often loudly stated that a USFA would never hold its value the way a Colt does.

Well, we all know how that turned out.

Now, today, we have the Standard Manufacturing copy of the SAA that a quick check of their and Colt's website, shows that they retail for the exact same price to start, and that depending on some factors, the Standard can apparently be much MORE expensive than the Colt.

Shades of USFA all over again.

And yet...

I don't see a lot of commentary about the Standard.   In fact, I read almost nothing about it.  No assessments as to its quality, no lamentations about its price, no nothing.   And in fact, while I often saw USFA's in various stores, I have never even SEEN a Standard.  All of this makes me wonder; do they actually exist?

Has anyone ever had a chance to handle one?  Does anyone here OWN one?   If yes, how do they stack up?

It all adds up to an strange phenomenon in my mind, and I don't know what to make of it all.

Anybody else wonder about all of this?

Come to think of it I’ve never seen a Standard in person either. I’ve seen Colts new and used and a few USFA’s but nary a Standard to be found except in pictures.🙄

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Hi Ya H.K.

 

I'll wade in as I have actually handled, shot, and had all THREE apart.  A Caveat:  I speak as a gunplumber, not some kind of collector.  In the beginning there was Colt.  THE SAA.  The first and second iterations of Colt were well made guns.  They were not "user friendly" in the truest sense of the word.  All of them handed to me needed basic action work (judicious rubbin-n-buffin) and reduced springs.  I always felt, for the money, you shouldn't have to put another 300 or 350 into a gun on top of an already exorbitant price.

 

USFA is NOT a copy of a Colt.  It's a loose replica, not parts interchangeable.  Not even close to being a "Clone" (I hate that word).  Originally, USPFA were built from Uberti parts sourced "in the white" then finished and completed here.  They were and are very well made guns but still required some basic action work and replacement of springs.  As with Colt, way overstrung.  I consider USPFA and USFA to be replicants of Uberti.  Then USFA started making their own proprietary parts in the US but those parts were EXACT duplicates of Uberti parts.  Those guns are extremely well made replicas of Uberti SAs.  And, overpriced.

 

Standard Manufacturing SAs are manufactured with USFA machines relocated from USFA when USFA went Tango Uniform.  Trucks were observed.  The Standard guns are devilishly well made, however, as with Colt and USFA, well oversprung and well overpriced.  I have no personal experience with Standard customer service, but have several acquaintances whom have so can only relate hearsay.  NONE of those comments were at all complementary.  You pays yer money and takes yer chances.

 

Incidentally.  Uberti replicas of Colt are larger dimensionally in most respects.  Simply stated, they're bigger.  They do, however, look "fine from the freeway."  In no way can they be called "Clones" (I hate that word) 'cause they ain't.  Burma Shave 

Edited August 2 by Colorado Coffinmaker
Forgot a Headding - Added

[Blackwater 53393]

Hey, CC! In comparison of the three and a standard Uberti, which would you spend your money on for use in our game??  Figuring the cost of action work and replacement parts availability into the premise, without any possible collector value added, what would you buy??

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

19 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Hey, CC! In comparison of the three and a standard Uberti, which would you spend your money on for use in our game??  Figuring the cost of action work and replacement parts availability into the premise, without any possible collector value added, what would you buy??

I'm not CC - but in my humble opinion; the answer is Pietta.

The Pietta Great Western II is an exact, parts interchangeable version of a 2nd generation Colt.

The early Doug Turnbull models were actual bone case hardened (not chemical case colored) and just as pretty as a Colt.

 

Again like most EVERYTHING for our game - they may need some tuning to run properly and maintain reliability but this generally means lighter springs and put some rounds downrange.  Then examine for scuff marks - polish as desired.

I have used my pair for over twenty years in this game; changed out the main springs when I got them and have shot the snot out of them - have worn out two hands and broke a cylinder/ trigger spring.

[Griff]

23 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Figuring the cost of action work and replacement parts availability into the premise, without any possible collector value added, what would you buy??

Noticeably, I ain't CC.   But, when I made my decision as to what to use in this game, USFA and Standard Manufacturing weren't dreamt up yet.  The choice for me was which importer of Uberti I desired.  Colt won.  When it became time to add a second revolver to meet stage requirements... Colt won again.  

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

...the answer is Pietta.

The Pietta Great Western II is an exact, parts interchangeable version of a 2nd generation Colt.

The early Doug Turnbull models were actual bone case hardened (not chemical case colored) and just as pretty as a Colt.

 

 

This ↑↑↑.

[Irish Pat]

I shoot Colts. when i got into SASS I Found a group of shooters I wanted to be around. I had been collecting WWII stuff for years but you can’t put on SS patern camo, strap on Lugers, P -38s and 98-k without drawing the kind off attention you don’t need. I traded that stuff off for cowboy gear and never have looked back. When i was in college I had S&W model 19 and 29 and thought my friends shooting Blackhawks were plumb retarded and I would never touch a single action in those days!  All my colts I have gotten at cowboy shoots from  other cowboys. I know when I get out of the game i hope a young shooter gets to enjoy them

on 

[Cholla]

If you go over to the Coltforum and do some searching, you will find numerous comparisons between Colt, USFA, and Standard. From what I have seen, Standard doesn't focus on the details found in later USFA guns. At first I didn't believe them, but when they presented side-by-side comparisons, I did see less attention to detail on the Standard revolvers. And, having had one of their revolvers, I agree their factory service is dismal from my own experience. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I shoot Colts, a good buddy of mine who got me into cowboy shooting and he was a wonder working with single actions. I started with a Ruger then got into Ubertis which are more like Colts. I eventually little by little got a brace of Colts. I have 4 in .357 I shoot .38’s. I’ve had a pair of USFA Rodeos but not for long. I’ve had Colts in .45 .44-40 and now .357. I sold the 45’s and .44-40’s to get the .357’s. I love my Colts!

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

About everything you will need to know about USFA.

 

https://youtu.be/UCxFnj-jqWw?is=5Lvr79BDe_OskS3E

 

I never understood people paying more money for a USFA or a Standered Manufacturing Colt Style gun ,

 

then you could buy a Colt itself for .

 

I dont care what name is stamped on the barrel. 

 

If its Not Colt its Not a Colt !

 

Just a copy .

 

I have several Uberti copy of Colt SAA 1873's, And Im happy to have them to play this game with .

 

I also have several real Colt SAA 1873's and they are beautiful guns .

 

Maybe its me or just my emotions. 

 

But when I hold a real Colt made by Colt .

 

I can feel its History and Soul. 

 

With a copy of the Colt .

 

It just feels like a nice handling gun .

 

Just Sayin. 

 

Rooster 

Edited August 3 by Rooster Ron Wayne

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Hi Blackwater 😁

 

Actually, "None of The Above" except for Creeker.  I'm a Poster Kid for Pietta.  The Pietta GW II is very well made, and very well priced, and parts are readily available and the guns are ringers for second generation Colts.  The more recent iterations of the GW II require little if any real action work with the exception of replacing the abysmal Cylinder Base Pin with a Uberti single groove non safety item.

 

I have never been a fan of the "High End" SA replicas as they ALL required lots of work to make them truly user friendly I never felt the need for all that action work was excusable at the prices asked.  For the price of a Standard example one can have three or four Pietta guns and have user friendly CAS guns out of the box.  Burma Shave 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay, it sounds like the Standards are not up to the quality that they should be considering their price point.

Good to know.

As far as USFA goes, I know they are not exact copies of the Colt, but based on the two I have, they were very well made guns.   

I have several Colts, several Uberti pistols, a couple of Armi San Marcos, 1 each of a USFA and and a USPFA (The latter of which is stamped Uberti, and is if noticeably better build quality than a generic Uberti), but oddly, no Piettas.  Coincidence of what I've been able to find locally, I guess.

Scratch that...  I do have a Pietta.  It was the doner gun of what became my Small Iron.  Has a Ruger style transfer bar.  I find the Italian guns to be workable items.   They do lack the allure of a Colt, to be sure.   I was mostly just wondering if history was repeating itself.   We see Standard asking very high prices, but I have no idea if the quality is there the way it was with USFA.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I also have a Pietta GWll and they are extremely well built Second Gen Colt clones as Coffinmaker has already stated.

I would take the GWll over any of the copys for the cost and functionality of the gun.

[Blackwater 53393]

6 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Hi Blackwater 😁

 

Actually, "None of The Above" except for Creeker.  I'm a Poster Kid for Pietta.  The Pietta GW II is very well made, and very well priced, and parts are readily available and the guns are ringers for second generation Colts.  The more recent iterations of the GW II require little if any real action work with the exception of replacing the abysmal Cylinder Base Pin with a Uberti single groove non safety item.

 

I have never been a fan of the "High End" SA replicas as they ALL required lots of work to make them truly user friendly I never felt the need for all that action work was excusable at the prices asked.  For the price of a Standard example one can have three or four Pietta guns and have user friendly CAS guns out of the box.  Burma Shave 

Thanks for the reply!!

 

I’ve never owned a SAA or any of the replicas, (I don’t care for the word “clone” either!) but I have had occasion to handle and shoot a few.  None for sufficient time to get a feel for quality or durability.

 

THEY DON’T FIT MY BIG MITS VERY WELL!!

 

My main match revolvers have been ‘75 Remington replicas and 1860 Colt copies, the occasional Ruger Blackhawk, and a pair of S&W .44 Russian replicas and Pietta doesn’t make those.

 

Some of my ‘60s are Pietta and I have a .44cal 1851 Colt copy, but it’s unfired and currently on the SASS Classifieds.

 

I just wondered if there was enough difference in any of them to justify spending four times as much for the Colts, Standards. or the USFAs and then having them worked, just to beat the Dickens out of ‘em in our game!

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I really dont see or understand way anyone has a Issue with Clone or Copy or what ever you chose to call them .

 

That's what they are .

They are Copys or Clones of the Colt 1873 pistols .

 

And I can't understand any of them selling for more money then a Colt itself. 

 

It will Never be a Colt no matter how close or better made than the one that says Colt on the barrel. 

 

Just Sayin. 

Rooster 

[Blackwater 53393]

42 minutes ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I really dont see or understand way anyone has a Issue with Clone or Copy or what ever you chose to call them .

 

That's what they are .

They are Copys or Clones of the Colt 1873 pistols .

 

And I can't understand any of them selling for more money then a Colt itself. 

 

It will Never be a Colt no matter how close or better made than the one that says Colt on the barrel. 

 

Just Sayin. 

Rooster 

I figure that if it’s better made, more durable, and or contains superior materials, it’s worth more, regardless of what name is stamped or engraved on it!!

 

I’m a big fan of one brand of vehicles, but others are better suited to some tasks, so I get the best tool for the job.
 

If a better tool comes along, it’s worth more money!! It doesn’t matter who made it!!!🙄

 

 

Edited August 4 by Blackwater 53393

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Hi Ya Blackwater 😊

 

My personal gripe is the definition of "Clone."  A "Clone" is an "Exact" duplicate of a living thing or object.  A "Replica" as a close imitation of an object.  I actually like the term "replicant."  The term "Clone" for our guns was dreamed up by some self aggrandizing magazine scribe many many moons ago.  The twerp.  Yuck.  Just my Opine.

[Blackwater 53393]

3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Hi Ya Blackwater 😊

 

My personal gripe is the definition of "Clone."  A "Clone" is an "Exact" duplicate of a living thing or object.  A "Replica" as a close imitation of an object.  I actually like the term "replicant."  The term "Clone" for our guns was dreamed up by some self aggrandizing magazine scribe many many moons ago.  The twerp.  Yuck.  Just my Opine.

I seldom, if ever, use clone to describe or acknowledge anything except genetic copies.

 

I read copy as a direct reproduction of something original. A counterfeit, if you will, a duplicate!!

 

I mostly use replica to identify something that may look like the original, but may not be a duplicate where dimensions or materials are concerned.

 

And as I said in the previous post, if the new one looks the same, feels the same, and works better, longer, or more reliably than the original, it’s worth more money to me!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

With tongue firmly is cheek....

Clone, copy, Italian, reproduction, replica, not a real Colt, I've used all those terms interchangeably, and people know what you mean by them.   The technical use of the language might mean that one one specific term is more accurate than another in some contexts, but I've never really let it mean all that much to me.

I find it interesting that we only use these terms when talking about the Colt.   We don't refer to Winchester clones, or S&W clones, most folks just use the name of the maker of the particular rifle or shotgun.

But, I guess that I understand why some folks will insist on one term or another.   After all, I always refer to the device in question as a "silencer," since that's the term used in the law that regulates them, making "suppressor" a made up term of no legal value that smacks of political correctness to me.