Wiley Wastelander Posted September 8 Posted September 8 19 hours ago, T.G. Rye said: I emailed Perdersoli about a .357 Mag. Here was the reply: Dear Mr. Rye, Thank you for your interest in our Silver Spur Lightning rifle. We have not yet set a date for production of the Silver Spur model in .357 Magnum. It could be toward the end of 2027, but nothing has been decided yet. At the moment, we are very pleased with the success this model is having in .45 Colt. Kind regards, Davide Perdersoli SRL End of 2027? Disappointing Quote
doc roy l. pain Posted September 8 Posted September 8 1 hour ago, Wiley Wastelander said: End of 2027? Disappointing Yep, and that just a maybe! Quote
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 8 Posted September 8 Well, I wrote to them to ask about .44 Magnum. Here's the response I got. Dear Mr. Mickel, Thank you for the interest in our Silver Spur pump action rifle, but in the .44Mag. Well, the most second required caliber until now is the .357Mag. which will be offered later on. However, your considerations are pertinent, and we can never say never. We turn your request to our managers. I'll give them much credit for responding, no matter what happens. Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 16 Posted September 16 So I'm guessing the wait for them to release a large frame in 38-56 might be lengthy? 1 Quote
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 16 Posted September 16 4 hours ago, Dallas McBoomboom said: So I'm guessing the wait for them to release a large frame in 38-56 might be lengthy? Meh... Now, .45-70. Oh wait... Except it's a Colt... 1 Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 16 Posted September 16 3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Meh... Now, .45-70. Oh wait... Except it's a Colt... That's a beauty! 45-85-285, but they'll basically shoot 45-70, correct? I really would love one in 38-56 (my favorite screwball rifle cartridge), but I've never seen one under 10 grand. 1 Quote
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 16 Posted September 16 5 minutes ago, Dallas McBoomboom said: That's a beauty! 45-85-285, but they'll basically shoot 45-70, correct? I really would love one in 38-56 (my favorite screwball rifle cartridge), but I've never seen one under 10 grand. More or less correct. The case dimensions of the .45-85 are identical to the .45-70. But, with a typical 405 grain bullet, the overall length of the cartridge is too long to fit through the loading gate. If you switch to a 300 grain bullet, which is ever so slightly shorter, and closer to the original 285 grain weight anyway, it fits perfectly. Shoots like a dream. In retrospect, why Colt chambered it for such a similar cartridge, but not for the .45-70 itself, is baffling to me. Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 16 Posted September 16 1 minute ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: More or less correct. The case dimensions of the .45-85 are identical to the .45-70. But, with a typical 405 grain bullet, the overall length of the cartridge is too long to fit through the loading gate. If you switch to a 300 grain bullet, which is ever so slightly shorter, and closer to the original 285 grain weight anyway, it fits perfectly. Shoots like a dream. In retrospect, why Colt chambered it for such a similar cartridge, but not for the .45-70 itself, is baffling to me. It's a little bit of a head scratcher, but the large frame lightnings always put me in mind of Alan Richtman's famous line from Quigley Down Under; "An experimental weapon with experimental ammunition". None of the rounds used in the large lightning were popular or standard (45-85-285, 38-56, 40-60, 50-95 express), it's almost like they were trying to see how many layers of unusual they could cram into one rifle 🤣. I've never actually had a large frame in my paws, but I've got several in more standard chamberings (44-40, 38-40, 32-20) and the guns just intrigue me in a way few other guns do. I rarely shoot them in competition, but get to see guys like Lassiter, Boaz, and Jay Vendetta run em like a scalded cat on the regular, and can't get enough of the craziness. Quote
Roger Rapid Posted September 16 Author Posted September 16 Speaking of lhe large-frame Colt Lightnings, I just left an exhausting day at the Buffalo Bill Museum of the West in Cody, Wyoming. They have a firearms exhibit that is touted to be the largest firearms collection in the world with over 10,000 firearms of all descriptions. There are several halls with traditional-style displays; rifles and pistols on the wall. But downstairs are several rooms with pull-out drawers that are labeled in order from A to Z for the manufacturer's name. Here I am at the "C" drawer that hosts three Colt Lightnings from small- to large-frame models. In the photo it looks like I can touch the rifles but they are behind plastic on both sides of the drawers. Upstairs there was another display of three Colt Lightnings, small to large, with four Colt Lightnings that incluided a small-frame prototype. And there were a few Lightnings in other areas as well. When we visited the museum about 10 years ago the renovation with all the pull-out drawers was not yet done. You gotta put this on your bucket list! RR 3 Quote
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 16 Posted September 16 6 hours ago, Dallas McBoomboom said: It's a little bit of a head scratcher, but the large frame lightnings always put me in mind of Alan Richtman's famous line from Quigley Down Under; "An experimental weapon with experimental ammunition". None of the rounds used in the large lightning were popular or standard (45-85-285, 38-56, 40-60, 50-95 express), it's almost like they were trying to see how many layers of unusual they could cram into one rifle 🤣. I've never actually had a large frame in my paws, but I've got several in more standard chamberings (44-40, 38-40, 32-20) and the guns just intrigue me in a way few other guns do. I rarely shoot them in competition, but get to see guys like Lassiter, Boaz, and Jay Vendetta run em like a scalded cat on the regular, and can't get enough of the craziness. I agree. .45-85-285 is the biggest confusion generator in my mind, simple because the case IS identical to the .45-70, and it was at a time when a repeater in that caliber was vey much a thing that many wanted. I have read that these were all thought of as "express" cartridges, ones using cases that typically were loaded with big heavy slow moving bullets. By using the same case as other cartridges, but by using much lighter weight bullets, velocity was increased. I do know that for the .45-85, the rifling was different from a .45-70 to work better with the much faster moving bullet. I have found that the 300 grain bullets for .45-70 work well in it, and give good long range accuracy when wanted. I'll assume similar things for the other cartridges. My large frame has been worked on by Lassiter, and in conversations with him, he tells me that for the most part, the large frame is mostly the same as the medium, just made bigger. There are some differences, which the Pedersoli Silver Spur incorporates, but the innards are not all that different between the medium and large ones. The small frame Lightning, on the other hand, is a completely different animal. It is not the medium made smaller. If anything, it's more similar to a Winchester 73 in the way it works. One look at it, and you can see how this is so. Craziness? Nah... It's just that when the Lightning Bug bites you, you are infected for life. In addition to my large frame .45-85, and small frame .22 Long, I've got, uhm... Lessee, how many mediums... 1 AWA .45 1 AWA .44-40 1 Colt .44-40 1 Colt .32-20 1 Taurus that is being refitted as a .44 Special Also. 1 AWA Lightning Bolt Pistol in .45 Colt. At this point, I am not so much interested in other makers, as much as I am in thinking it'd be nice to have ones on other calibers. .44 Magnum and .32 S&W Long top my list. Maybe a .38 Special, if it'll run .38 Long Colts. I really need a rifle in .38 Long Colt to use with some revolvers in the caliber. Colt never made it in .25-20, but that would be cool. But not so cool that I'd consider a rebarrel to the caliber from a .32-20. Well, maybe if the original barrel was shot out, and if, I dunno, a Winchester barrel could be made to fit... I have a Colt SAA in .22 Hornet. A rifle in the caliber intrigues me, but I'm nervous about the round in a tubular magazine, even with flat nose bulelts. None of the other large frame calibers interests me, but I'd accept one as a gift without hesitation! Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 16 Posted September 16 2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: I agree. .45-85-285 is the biggest confusion generator in my mind, simple because the case IS identical to the .45-70, and it was at a time when a repeater in that caliber was vey much a thing that many wanted. I have read that these were all thought of as "express" cartridges, ones using cases that typically were loaded with big heavy slow moving bullets. By using the same case as other cartridges, but by using much lighter weight bullets, velocity was increased. I do know that for the .45-85, the rifling was different from a .45-70 to work better with the much faster moving bullet. I have found that the 300 grain bullets for .45-70 work well in it, and give good long range accuracy when wanted. I'll assume similar things for the other cartridges. My large frame has been worked on by Lassiter, and in conversations with him, he tells me that for the most part, the large frame is mostly the same as the medium, just made bigger. There are some differences, which the Pedersoli Silver Spur incorporates, but the innards are not all that different between the medium and large ones. The small frame Lightning, on the other hand, is a completely different animal. It is not the medium made smaller. If anything, it's more similar to a Winchester 73 in the way it works. One look at it, and you can see how this is so. Craziness? Nah... It's just that when the Lightning Bug bites you, you are infected for life. In addition to my large frame .45-85, and small frame .22 Long, I've got, uhm... Lessee, how many mediums... 1 AWA .45 1 AWA .44-40 1 Colt .44-40 1 Colt .32-20 1 Taurus that is being refitted as a .44 Special Also. 1 AWA Lightning Bolt Pistol in .45 Colt. At this point, I am not so much interested in other makers, as much as I am in thinking it'd be nice to have ones on other calibers. .44 Magnum and .32 S&W Long top my list. Maybe a .38 Special, if it'll run .38 Long Colts. I really need a rifle in .38 Long Colt to use with some revolvers in the caliber. Colt never made it in .25-20, but that would be cool. But not so cool that I'd consider a rebarrel to the caliber from a .32-20. Well, maybe if the original barrel was shot out, and if, I dunno, a Winchester barrel could be made to fit... I have a Colt SAA in .22 Hornet. A rifle in the caliber intrigues me, but I'm nervous about the round in a tubular magazine, even with flat nose bulelts. None of the other large frame calibers interests me, but I'd accept one as a gift without hesitation! So are you interested in adopting an heir to your lightning collection? A BOLT?! What did they make, like 9 of those?! I've got 38-40 AWA 44-40 AWA 38-40 Colt 32-20 Colt On the hunt for a 357 to convert to 357-44, and the ever illusive 38-56. I don't have any illusion of ever finding a bolt short of larceny. 🤣 1 Quote
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 16 Posted September 16 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dallas McBoomboom said: So are you interested in adopting an heir to your lightning collection? A BOLT?! What did they make, like 9 of those?! I've got 38-40 AWA 44-40 AWA 38-40 Colt 32-20 Colt On the hunt for a 357 to convert to 357-44, and the ever illusive 38-56. I don't have any illusion of ever finding a bolt short of larceny. 🤣 Yeah, in the article in Guns of the Old West a while ago, of which one of the Lightning Bolts pictured is mine, it was mentioned that they uhm... 8 or 9... I'll have to find my copy to say for sure. I was very lucky to get mine. I knew someone who had one, who was retiring and selling off a lot of the stuff in his collection. I asked him if he would be willing to sell me his Bolt, and he did. For what he paid for it. I'd love to find another one, but I doubt if I ever will. Or at least not for such a good price! What is .357-44? Oddly, whenever I do see a Large Frame, it's almost always a .38-56. Of course, checking Gunbroker, there are two there now, both are .40-60. One is $4100, the other is $12000 Edited September 16 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 17 Posted September 17 Yeah, I don't forsee ever finding one of those, but it's really cool to know that at least one of them is with a cowboy. 357-44 is an obscure wildcat cartridge from the 80s that I've modified for black powder. It's a 44 magnum case necked down to a 357, full of fffg, with a 105 gr big lube. Ton of boom and smoke and flame without all the recoil of a 44-40 or 38-40. I've built a pair of vaqueros and a 73 in it, although the 73 still has a few kinks I'm working out. Weirdo bottlenecks are kinda my thing. If I could find a 38-56 lightning for 4k, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. There's currently one on GI for 11k, little rich for my blood. 40-60 doesn't interest me too much, it's basically an anemic straight wall 40-65 to my eye. I guess I could look at what it would take to sleeve and chamber bore it to 38-56, but I don't feel right doing an old colt like that. I'll just keep watching and crossing my fingers. 🤠 The hunt is half the fun! 1 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted September 17 Posted September 17 11 hours ago, Roger Rapid said: Speaking of lhe large-frame Colt Lightnings, I just left an exhausting day at the Buffalo Bill Museum of the West in Cody, Wyoming. They have a firearms exhibit that is touted to be the largest firearms collection in the world with over 10,000 firearms of all descriptions. There are several halls with traditional-style displays; rifles and pistols on the wall. But downstairs are several rooms with pull-out drawers that are labeled in order from A to Z for the manufacturer's name. Here I am at the "C" drawer that hosts three Colt Lightnings from small- to large-frame models. In the photo it looks like I can touch the rifles but they are behind plastic on both sides of the drawers. Upstairs there was another display of three Colt Lightnings, small to large, with four Colt Lightnings that incluided a small-frame prototype. And there were a few Lightnings in other areas as well. When we visited the museum about 10 years ago the renovation with all the pull-out drawers was not yet done. You gotta put this on your bucket list! RR I visited all the Cody museums in 2023, Awesome!!! 1 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted September 17 Posted September 17 6 hours ago, Dallas McBoomboom said: So are you interested in adopting an heir to your lightning collection? A BOLT?! What did they make, like 9 of those?! I've got 38-40 AWA 44-40 AWA 38-40 Colt 32-20 Colt On the hunt for a 357 to convert to 357-44, and the ever illusive 38-56. I don't have any illusion of ever finding a bolt short of larceny. 🤣 I’ve only got one, it’s an original Colt in 38-40. Had Lassiter check it over several years ago to make sure everything functioned like it should. Can’t shoot it in Classic Cowboy so never shot it in a match. Only played with it some using APP rounds. Nice piece of History!! 1 Quote
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 18 Posted September 18 On 9/16/2026 at 8:08 PM, Dallas McBoomboom said: 357-44 is an obscure wildcat cartridge from the 80s that I've modified for black powder. It's a 44 magnum case necked down to a 357, full of fffg, with a 105 gr big lube. I am gonna start a thread on this topic. I hope you will comment. Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 18 Posted September 18 Sure thing, I'm pretty much making it up as I go along, but I'll talk about oddball bp stuff with anyone that wants to 🤣 Quote
usmc69 Posted September 18 Posted September 18 (edited) On 9/16/2026 at 8:08 PM, Dallas McBoomboom said: If I could find a 38-56 lightning for 4k, I'd grab it in a heartbeat. There's currently one on GI for 11k, little rich for my blood. 40-60 doesn't interest me too much, it's basically an anemic straight wall 40-65 to my eye. I guess I could look at what it would take to sleeve and chamber bore it to 38-56, but I don't feel right doing an old colt like that. I'll just keep watching and crossing my fingers. 🤠 The hunt is half the fun! I have a friend that goes to a local auction house every month. There will be will be a Colt lightning .38 up for auction. Don't know if it is in .38-40 or .38-56. Edited September 18 by usmc69 Quote
Dallas McBoomboom Posted September 18 Posted September 18 If it's 1200, it's 38-40, if it's 12000, it's 38-56 🤣 Quote
usmc69 Posted September 18 Posted September 18 1 hour ago, Dallas McBoomboom said: If it's 1200, it's 38-40, if it's 12000, it's 38-56 🤣 Please reread my post, the auction is not until next week. Won't find out the price it sold for until after the auction. If someone wants to PM me about it please feel free. Quote
SnakeM Posted October 1 Posted October 1 (edited) Dont care about the slam fire, just want it to feed and function reliably. The modification to the larger carrier seems to work. And they did say it will feed 38 special as well. Edited October 1 by SnakeM Quote
usmc69 Posted Saturday at 03:17 PM Posted Saturday at 03:17 PM (edited) On 9/18/2026 at 4:34 PM, usmc69 said: I have a friend that goes to a local auction house every month. There will be will be a Colt lightning .38 up for auction. Don't know if it is in .38-40 or .38-56. The Colt Lightning sold on Thursday for $1200.00. I did a look up on the Colt site and the S/N 49581 comes up as made in 1890. https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup/ Wish I had been there, would probably have bought it. I paid $850.00 at the same auction house for my Pedersoli. Edited Saturday at 04:23 PM by usmc69 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted Saturday at 05:10 PM Posted Saturday at 05:10 PM On IMA site Listed for $6,995 Original U.S. Colt Large Frame “Express” Lightning .40-60-260 Pump Act – International Military Antiques These already sold Top one (.32-20) sold today for $1,895 Original U.S. Colt Medium Frame .32-20 W.C.F. Lightning Slide Action M – International Military Antiques Original U.S. Colt Medium Frame Lightning .38 Caliber Slide Action Mag – International Military Antiques Quote
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