Swiss black powder loads

[Eyesa Horg]

1 hour ago, 9245 said:

I did the same test with mine, they ring like bells.  Barrel thickness looks good too, as is confirmed by my calipers, albeit only at the muzzles.  The bores are frosty but no major pits that I can see.

Honestly never knew they need an ultrasonic test. 😕 Until now I only knew about visual and the ring test.

[9245]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Honestly never knew they need an ultrasonic test. 😕 Until now I only knew about visual and the ring test.

I honestly question if they really do.  I’m of the opinion that if there are no obvious signs of damage or deep pitting, they pass the ring test, the caliper says the barrel thickness is good, and they are still on face that they are probably fine, but I think most here would disagree.  And funny enough I can do all those other tests myself with no need to spend many hundreds of dollars to have someone else do the exact same thing I already did plus an ultra sonic, but hey, that’s just me.

[Lucky R. K.]

9 hours ago, 9245 said:

I honestly question if they really do.  I’m of the opinion that if there are no obvious signs of damage or deep pitting, they pass the ring test, the caliper says the barrel thickness is good, and they are still on face that they are probably fine, but I think most here would disagree.  And funny enough I can do all those other tests myself with no need to spend many hundreds of dollars to have someone else do the exact same thing I already did plus an ultra sonic, but hey, that’s just me.

Something nobody has mentioned here is the area under the ribs, both top and bottom, English guns have soft soldered barrels but Belgium guns have ribs braised. Acid flux was used on the barrels. Back in the day the standard way to clean the barrels was to drop them in a bucket of water and scrub them. This allowed water to seep into the areas between the barrels and start to corrode the metal, Sooner or later the barrels would let go. this gave twist barrels a bad reputation which they did not deserve. A friend had a set of twist barrels refinished by a well-known smith of the time. When he dismantled the barrels to finish them he found the corrosion between the ribs I have described. He made a complete series of pictures of the finishing process and delivered them with the refinished barrels. I saw the pictures and they changed my way of thinking about twist barrels. Sorry to be so wordy but I couldn't come with a shorter description.

Lucky 😁

[9245]

12 hours ago, Lucky R. K. said:

Something nobody has mentioned here is the area under the ribs, both top and bottom, English guns have soft soldered barrels but Belgium guns have ribs braised. Acid flux was used on the barrels. Back in the day the standard way to clean the barrels was to drop them in a bucket of water and scrub them. This allowed water to seep into the areas between the barrels and start to corrode the metal, Sooner or later the barrels would let go. this gave twist barrels a bad reputation which they did not deserve. A friend had a set of twist barrels refinished by a well-known smith of the time. When he dismantled the barrels to finish them he found the corrosion between the ribs I have described. He made a complete series of pictures of the finishing process and delivered them with the refinished barrels. I saw the pictures and they changed my way of thinking about twist barrels. Sorry to be so wordy but I couldn't come with a shorter description.

Lucky 😁

I’ve noticed that most of the Belgians are open at the front, so I imagine a fiber optic camera, maybe even a standard bore scope could probably be fed in there to take a look under the ribs.

[Lucky R. K.]

11 hours ago, 9245 said:

I’ve noticed that most of the Belgians are open at the front, so I imagine a fiber optic camera, maybe even a standard bore scope could probably be fed in there to take a look under the ribs.

I don't understand "open at the front", would you explain?

Lucky 😁

[9245]

2 hours ago, Lucky R. K. said:

I don't understand "open at the front", would you explain?

Lucky 😁

There is a visible V shaped gap under the rib.  Mine doesn’t have that, because I think it’s English, not Belgian, but the Belgians I have seen all did.

 

In other news, just how many damn “W. Richards” did they make?  I see multiple Belgian examples (with the open ribs, and Liege proof marks), and also English ones with solid (soldered?) ribs and Birmingham proof marks.  I researched it and found no less than 3 makers in Britain alone at that same time calling themselves that, and who knows how many Belgians.  FYI one of them was a relative of Westley Richards, one was a random nobody, and one is/was until recently, actually still in business, specializing in bespoke customs, gunsmithing, and restorations.

[Lucky R. K.]

22 hours ago, 9245 said:

There is a visible V shaped gap under the rib.  Mine doesn’t have that, because I think it’s English, not Belgian, but the Belgians I have seen all did.

 

I

Now I understand what you were talking about. I have never seen an unmodified muzzleloading shotgun without that gap being closed, but I have seen is a bunch of shotguns with the gap. It was very common to shorten barrel length because of damage to the muzzle, preference for a shorter barrel, etc,  When someone shortened a barrel, sometimes they filled the V gap and sometimes they did not.

Lucky 😁

Edited July 19 by Lucky R. K.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Well, as a retired Gunplumber, I'd like to share, there is no way to determine the condition between the "welds" without Non Destructive Inspection.  The barrels are not "welded" in the true sense of welding, they are hammer forged to a "fused bond."  Twist (Damascus) barrels are subject to corrosion within those fused bonds and in many cases have been quietly corroding for over a 100 years.  Your thread has shown you are unwilling to accept solid advice and suggestions beyond your own misguided ignorance.  You may actually get lucky, or you may not.  As I mentioned earlier,  It's Your Circus, Your Monkies.  You pays yer money and takes yer chances.