Where to put second holster

[9245]

I just got new leather and I’m playing with where to stick the second holster.  The primary holster is 3:00 strong side (though I have both a left and right for it so I’m playing with the idea of a Calvary draw, but I’m not sold on it yet), the second I just have cross draws for, either a straight up and down or about a 25 degree cant.  Right now I’m leaning towards the canted holster at about 10:30, just a bit to the left of my buckle, not weak side but not quite appendix, sort of in between.  Currently strong side is a Remington New Model Army, while the secondary is a 4 3/4 inch 1873.  What do you suggest?  (FYI, the weak side position is occupied by an ammunition/cylinder pouch for the Remington, not really used, but I have it there for character reasons)  (FYI number 2, I’m a big dude, about 55-56 inches to the hole I’m using, so belt crowding is not an issue)  (FYI number 3, I have full loops, 61 of them to be exact, with room to probably add a few more if I really wanted to.)

Edited July 8 by 9245
Edited to fix my bad measurement.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

FYI:
"Holsters may not depart from the vertical by more than 30º when worn."

SHB p.3

[Sedalia Dave]

PWB beat me to it.

 

Edited July 8 by Sedalia Dave

[Tall John]

I believe that the maximum “cant” for any holster is 30 degrees.  I think a lot depends on how you shoot.  If you shoot both pistols with your right hand, then a cross draw might be good.  Suggest watching you tube videos on handling pistols in Cowboy action shooting to see what the experts do.  I started at 9:00 and 3:00 and like many others have moved toward 10 & 2 while many are 11 & 1.

 

im no expert! But suggest discussing the topic with the guys and gals in your club.

[9245]

I was just guessing at the 45 degrees, I have not actually measured it.

 

Here is a picture of it, you tell me.

 

Note that the picture is sideways, because my phone is stupid and keeps randomly displaying landscape photos in portrait.  Up is to the right of the photo.

Edited July 8 by 9245

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

This ilustrates the maximum 30º from vertical holster angle allowed "when worn":

 

                                                  

 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

CAS holsters are not just designed for ease of drawing.  They need to be designed and constructed for quick, reliable reholstering too.  The pictured holster does not meet that need.  Start shopping for leather with vendors who cater to the CAS sport.

[9245]

19 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

CAS holsters are not just designed for ease of drawing.  They need to be designed and constructed for quick, reliable reholstering too.  The pictured holster does not meet that need.  Start shopping for leather with vendors who cater to the CAS sport.

Please elaborate.  What is wrong with it?  That one actually seems to be fairly quick on the reholster.  The straight one needs some more breaking in though.

[9245]

After a quick measure, it appears that my initial guess of 45 degrees may have been off by quit a lot, I measured twice and it seems to land somewhere between 20 and 25 degrees.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

26 minutes ago, 9245 said:

Please elaborate.  What is wrong with it?  That one actually seems to be fairly quick on the reholster.  The straight one needs some more breaking in though.

The lining appears rough.  Also, the opening is not flared.  CAS holsters are stiff, often with metal inserts to ensure they remain open.  The pictured holster appears to be an ordinary holster meant for carry but not CAS competition.

[watab kid]

as long as you buy it from a well known commercial mfgr - galco for example , they know the regs and meet them , most custom makers you meet at a shoot will as well , its only some of the producers that might not if they dont know them or dont care , folks here will give you any number of sources both commercial and custom my choices are galco and elpasso saddlery if commercial , ive got some tripple K for the 22s but i have no cant in those , i can recoment a couple cusytom folks if you dont mind dealing in wisconsin 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

8 hours ago, 9245 said:

After a quick measure, it appears that my initial guess of 45 degrees may have been off by quit a lot, I measured twice and it seems to land somewhere between 20 and 25 degrees.

I don't know how you are measuring it.  By the picture it is in the neighborhood of 40 degrees.  No bueno.  

 

Also, the "as worn" stipulation means you probably will need a holster with no more than 20 degrees cant before you put it on, maybe less since you are a big guy.

[Vail Vigilante]

Best advice is to set your rig up in the mirror.

This way you can see if you have any angles that might give you a issue on game day.

I had to rejigger one of my non CAS rigs after I saw something that might be a issue rules-wise.

 

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

And it is the degree of the holster as worn when shooting.

[Griff]

I'm going to say that holster looks to be much closer to 45º than 30º.

Remember, it's 30º from the vertical.  The rule was put in place due to the number of revolvers that bounced out of such holsters back in the day.  Stages were a bit more "active" than they are today, involving such things a climbing on & off "horses", in & out of wagons, beds, and similar activities.

 

Another example of why it's important to attend a few matches before buying firearms, gear, etc.  

[9245]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

I'm going to say that holster looks to be much closer to 45º than 30º.

Remember, it's 30º from the vertical.  The rule was put in place due to the number of revolvers that bounced out of such holsters back in the day.  Stages were a bit more "active" than they are today, involving such things a climbing on & off "horses", in & out of wagons, beds, and similar activities.

 

Another example of why it's important to attend a few matches before buying firearms, gear, etc.  

 

when actually worn it isn’t all that steep, but in any case I also have an identical one that is not canted at all if that one is not allowed.

 

I would have very much liked those more “active” competitions though, since you mentioned it, shame they went away.  Closest I can find now is the brutality/dead eye ones (which are not SASS), but they are unfortunately multiple states away typically and not really practical for me to attend. (I have personal reasons, which I don’t really want to get in to here, because it isn’t relevant, that prevent me from traveling for short trips, basically it would be prohibitively expensive and logistically difficult to do so a quick trip for a match is basically a no go.)

[El Sobrante Kid]

As shown in the pic, the holster is ~35 degrees off of vertical.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

8 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

As shown in the pic, the holster is ~35 degrees off of vertical.

Yeah, my protractor says 37.5 degrees.

 

8 hours ago, 9245 said:

 

when actually worn it isn’t all that steep, but in any case I also have an identical one that is not canted at all if that one is not allowed....

I don't think you understand the concept of "as worn".  If your belt is at all lower in the front than in the rear, which is the case for most of us, the angle of the barrel from vertical will increase.  But yes, a straight hang holster can certainly be used as a crossdraw. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Also READ the entire "Holsters" section on p.3 of the SHB; particularly in regard to avoiding breaking the 170° safety rule.

[9245]

1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Yeah, my protractor says 37.5 degrees.

 

I don't think you understand the concept of "as worn".  If your belt is at all lower in the front than in the rear, which is the case for most of us, the angle of the barrel from vertical will increase.  But yes, a straight hang holster can certainly be used as a crossdraw. 

It’s the way the belt likes to go through that one, it ends up going through kind of cockeyed (the slot it the too side has less space than the bottom) and it is going over loaded cartridge loops, and it’s unlined, so once it is on it does not like to shift around, then add my body shape and it results in the holster being a bit crooked.

[watab kid]

ill never try to talk someone out of doing theitr thing - mine cost me a lot of money but never a stage and never ever a match DQ  , so my attitude here is comply wth the rules and have fun doin it , the double cross draw orcav draw will mean doing the double dance to not break the regs , im not going to add that to my useual stage issues of keeping it straight and such , if you go this direction ,  far be it from me to do dissuade you , you might want to practice in off times to ensure you dont brek that 170 rule 

[The Verdigris Kid]

One thing you might do is put a rivet through the front and back at the blue dot. There should still be plenty of room for your belt to go through and that would bring the angle down to around 25*.

[Eyesa Horg]

Or a Chicago screw in case you need to remove it.

[The Verdigris Kid]

55 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Or a Chicago screw in case you need to remove it.

LOL, yeah, I never even thought about that.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, The Verdigris Kid said:

One thing you might do is put a rivet through the front and back at the blue dot. There should still be plenty of room for your belt to go through and that would bring the angle down to around 25*.

I did that to an old holster but just tied a leather piece through that hole.

[watab kid]

that would work , or have a holster maker sew it to that point , i shoot a lot of double strong side to offset this - it slows me down but i dont care as long as im legal in the game