WTC - Percussion Pistols ???

[T-Square]

Very first gun on the firing line - percussion pistol, the remington no 10 cap goes "fizz" - no BANG.  No round down range.

 

What are the options ?  There is no round down range.

 

One TO says, go to the unloading table, unload pistols, start over at the loading table. 

 

Is it reasonable to "unload" the entire percusion pistol?  Uncap and remove balls and powder??!!

 

One TO says - recap that cylinder, on the firing line, and start over.."give me the line".....

 

What would be the official call?  and what does your club do?

 

Edited July 6 by T-Square

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Until the FIRST round has gone DOWNRANGE - The shooter does NOT own the stage.

 

No debate over this point.

So now all we need to determine is - what is the "best" way to proceed forward?

 

Generally - big or small match is immaterial; I am against allowing shooters to "fix" things on the firing line.

 

The shooter is usually better served by sending them to the unloading table and starting over; and even in the situation where they know exactly the issue or correction needed - at minimum sending them back to the loading table.

 

This allows the shooter the appropriate time to fix their issues, reset mentally and prepare for their stage without feeling pressured to hurry along.

 

It also keeps the posse moving and avoids the change of pace and loss of rhythm (focus) that occurs when too much time passes between shooters.

 

When a shooter has an issue and is getting a restart; where the shooter gets sent is dependant upon numerous factors - but they ARE going somewhere other than the firing line to correct it 

[Flying W Ramrod]

Cap and Ball or cartridge, I ask them what they want to do.

Some would like to go to the ULT and start again, get their heads back together, some want to check their guns and start right then.

It's up to the shooter, as long as it's done safely.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I see no reason why a Cap and Ball shooter has to unload his guns. Send him back to the LOADING table to fix what’s wrong. That would be my call.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Correct call from the TO.

[Old Man Graybeard]

I am not completely sure if you could recap the one chamber on the line...but I see no reason to remove balls and powder...cap guns are considered safe as long as they are NOT capped. When we go to the loading table...the handguns are already loaded with powder and ball...all you do at the loading table is cap them. 

[Blackwater 53393]

I think it’s time for PaleWolf to chime in here.  Certan latitude should be given to cap and ball revolver shooters in instances such as these. The replacement of a single percussion cap is not unusual during the course of firing a percussion revolver! It is allowed during the stage according to the Shooter’s Handbook.

 

I and other Frontiersman competitors have, on occasion, disassembled a pistol to clear a cap jam and then continued and completed the stage in order to preserve a clean match after putting the gun back together.

 

We’ve had this discussion on the wire before and it was decided that this was, in fact, legal!  In this instance, I think the choice should be left to the shooter.  I would probably prefer to simply relace the faulty cap and restart, but that’s just me.

 

 

Edited July 6 by Blackwater 53393

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Personally, (as a sometime percussionist) I would prefer going back to the LT rather than holding up the posse if that's a concern.

If not, simply clear it and recap for a restart.

I would want to use a nipple pick to make certain that no residue from the fizzled cap causes a repeat FTF.
Going to the ULT to do so might require that the shooter be escorted back to the LT if all firearms were not UNloaded (both revolvers decapped and rifle emptied)...all depending on the stage layout.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

No round has gone down range so reshoot is the correct course of action. No different than if a cartridge gun failed to fire.

 

Now comes the discussion.

 

There are possible courses of action.

 

1.  Shooter verifies the ball is still in the chamber, recaps and restarts the stage.

 

2.  Shooter goes to the Unloading table. Unloads rifle and makes C&B revolvers safe by removing caps or with TO approval safely fires both revolves down range. 

 

3. Shooter takes loaded firearms back to the loading table and restages non-malfunctioning firearms. Then shooter goes to a designated area and resolves issue with the manfunctioning revolver. This may include clearing the revolver by firing all the chambers.

 

As a long time C&B shooter, I would ask the shooter which course of action they prefer, taking into account the stage layout and how the delay would impact stage/match flow.

 

Me personally, I can determine if I have a squib and if not in a few seconds. Because I always load all 6 chambers with powder and ball I would cap the "6" chamber, reindex the pistol and restart the stage. All the above would take no more time than having me leave the stage and return later.

 

If I leave the firing line,  My preference is to return to the loading table and restage all the loaded firearms. Then with TO approval go to an open stage with the malfunctioning pistol and determine if I have a squib. Absent a ball stuck in the barrel, I would fire the remaining chambers and then address the chamber that didn't fire.  The reason for preferring to fire all the chambers vice removing live caps is that I feel it is safer than removing live caps. On all my various C&B revolvers seated caps are not coming off easily and I don't want to chance an AD while trying to pry them off.

 

 

Big or small matches I've never had any match official not allow me to clear a malfunctioning C&B pistol by firing rounds safely down range. In my opinion this is always safer than removing a live cap from a charged chamber.

[Lucky R. K.]

23 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Me personally, I can determine if I have a squib and if not in a few seconds. Because I always load all 6 chambers with powder and ball I would cap the "6" chamber, reindex the pistol and restart the stage. All the above would take no more time than having I leave the firing line, My preference is to return to the loading table and restage all the loaded firearms. Then with TO approval go to an open stage with the malfunctioning pistol and determine if I have a squib. Absent a ball stuck in the barrel, I would fire the remaining chambers and then address the chamber that didn't fire. 

 

This. Always recheck your load if you have the opportunity. Once at a state match, while loading my Old Armies, I was called away to have our posse picture made. After the picture was made I went back to the loading table, capped the nipples and was called to the line. Pulled the pistols and they went "pop" 10 times, no bullets so 10 misses. Needless to say, no Cadillac. If you have the opportunity after having a problem ALWAYS recheck you load.

Lucky 😁

[La Sombra]

52 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

The reason for preferring to fire all the chambers vice removing live caps is that I feel it is safer than removing live caps. On all my various C&B revolvers seated caps are not coming off easily and I don't want to chance an AD while trying to pry them off.

 

 

Big or small matches I've never had any match official not allow me to clear a malfunctioning C&B pistol by firing rounds safely down range. In my opinion this is always safer than removing a live cap from a charged chamber.

And there is the answer. I am loathe to remove a cap from a loaded chamber. +1 for @Sedalia Dave

 

La Sombra

[T-Square]

Just to add my opinion to this thread:  In this real-life situation; I am confident in my ablilities to load the cylnders (and wasn't distracted for a picture) - so I knew it was a bad cap.  I raced thru the stage, and simply took the FIZZ as one miss.   

I'm here for the fun, smoke, and fire, and have no expectation of ever being clean !  (no shade on the clean shooters though - good for them and the Clean Pin manufacturers).

If I wanted to start over, my preference would be to go back to the loading table, pic that cylinder, and assuming no other issue, to simply re-cap - and wait my turn to return to the line.  Like I said, I 'knew' it was a cap issue.  Since COVID all the reloading parts are of the poorest quality.

If my choice was to go and clear my pistol, or pistols, I'll take the miss.  Until there is a SUBSTANTIAL increase in prize money, or Goex starts making black powder again, I'm not wasting $10 bucks and 10 minutes holding up the posse.

After my stage, and clearing all other guns at the unloading table, the TO did let me return to the line and clear my chamber.  A new cap and BANG - I hit the correct target too BUT THEY STILL GAVE ME A MISS !!!!  LOL

Thanks to all my Frontiersman brethren !  See you down the trail, behind a cloud of gunsmoke.

 

Edited July 6 by T-Square

[Blackwater 53393]

In my own case, I’ll fire the next round, pick off the bad cap, and recap that chamber unless I’m still shooting a clean match.  
 

If I’m still shooting a clean match, I’ll probably inform the TO that I am going to restart.  When this has happened before, (twice in several hundred matches) I’ve always been allowed to recap the chamber and restart.

 

Seems like we’re starting to put too much emphasis on “moving things along” and making the game “one size fits all” and forgetting that we’re supposed to be having fun.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Another PLUS ONE fer Sedalia Dave.

 

As a long time Cap Gun shooter, I personally would prefer to re-cap the fizz chamber and a re-start.  Pulling the caps to "unload" is, to me, Oxymoron and totally unnecessary.  Although, since I also shoot Gunfighter, my next round would have been fired way too quickly to just stop.  I'd just continue and eat the miss.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Seems like we’re starting to put too much emphasis on “moving things along” and making the game “one size fits all” and forgetting that we’re supposed to be having fun.

 

I'm not a percussion shooter - so I will defer to the shooter as to "where" is best for them to go to (ULT or LT).

But big matches are usually based around allowing an average time of 120 seconds BEEP to BEEP (calling the shooter up, staging, shooting, target reset, brassing and getting the shooter off the stage must all happen within that window).

I am not going to hold up a posse and potentially bottleneck a stage to accommodate repairs; when these items can be done elsewhere and I can maintain "moving things along".

 

After all - it is about having fun.

And a good TO/ Posse Marshal understands that time is fleeting and EVERY wasted second compounds itself when you are dealing with 25 posse members or an 800 shooter match.

Any opportunity you have to keep things moving avoids inconveniencing the entire posse, plus any posses yet to come.

 

Allowing more people to have fun.

 

[Griff]

As a percussion shooter I'd prefer to simply remove and replace that one cap and restart.  (Thinking I'm lucky it was the first chamber... not the 2nd or 3rd)!  I also charge all six chambers and always carry my capper to the line.  Takes all of 4 or 5 seconds... then maybe, 15 more to readjust myself to start again.  Quicker than me removing my guns from the stage and calling the next shooter to stage and prepare to shoot.  A less experienced C & B shooter might take a few seconds more, but I'd say its nominal once you've stood for a few seconds with the revolver pointed downrange and ascertained that it isn't a "hang fire" situation.

[Blackwater 53393]

Most any accomplished cap ‘n’ ball shooter can pick off a cap and replace it in ten to fifteen seconds. Most of us carry the needed equipment and materials to the line every time we go! When I was doing it competitively I could do it in less time than most shotgun shooters can reset themselves after a failed start attempt. Most of us also know when we need to let it go and leave the line. That’s why, for many years, it was spelled out in the Shooters’ Handbook that Frontiersmen and other cap ‘n’ ball shooters should be given latitude to handle the issues that can arise in shooting those guns.  I don’t know if that’s still the case or if things have changed recently. 
 

On three separate occasions, I’ve removed the wedge, barrel, and cylinder on a jammed percussion revolver to clear the jam, replaced those items, and completed the stage in under the customary 150 second time allotted to a shooter. Twice to preserve a clen match, (which I did, once as the last gun on the last stage) and once when I was the last shooter on the last stage of the day and I just wanted to finish the day with a clean stage!  In all three cases, most everyone on the posse cheered!

 

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Good job staying with it!

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

4 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

On three separate occasions, I’ve removed the wedge, barrel, and cylinder on a jammed percussion revolver to clear the jam, replaced those items, and completed the stage in under the customary 150 second time allotted to a shooter.

 

I wasn't aware of any customary 150 second time allowed to the shooter.

 

A standard 10-10-4 has a maximum penalty time (without "P" or "SOG") of 120 seconds - 24 misses.  

I see zero reason that a shooter would be allowed or encouraged to go beyond that point disassembling and reassembling firearms.

[Griff]

12 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I wasn't aware of any customary 150 second time allowed to the shooter.

 

A standard 10-10-4 has a maximum penalty time (without "P" or "SOG") of 120 seconds - 24 misses.  

I see zero reason that a shooter would be allowed or encouraged to go beyond that point disassembling and reassembling firearms.

From the SHB, version 28,  pg 30:

Quote

The maximum time allowed for a stage is the total of all available targets/miss penalties plus 30 seconds.

 

[Ciderbarrel]

I have never had to manually decap a nipple and I have no idea if I could do it w/o a discharge. I would have to practice that with empty cylinders.

 

What makes mose sense, to me, is what others have said -- back to the loading table, make sure the nipple is clear and recap OR load the 6th cylinder and cap that one and deal with the FTF cylinder later.

[Blackwater 53393]

31 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I see zero reason that a shooter would be allowed or encouraged to go beyond that point disassembling and reassembling firearms.

NEVERTHELESS, it has been, and to the best of my knowledge, is still permitted under SASS and other sanctioning body rules!

 

I think that if I were FORCED by a TO to leave the stage under those circumstances, I would request from the match director that on my return to the line for my reshoot, that that TO be replaced!

[Lucky R. K.]

12 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

NEVERTHELESS, it has been, and to the best of my knowledge, is still permitted under SASS and other sanctioning body rules!

 

I think that if I were FORCED by a TO to leave the stage under those circumstances, I would request from the match director that on my return to the line for my reshoot, that that TO be replaced!

I agree 100%. The point is that if I was working on a clean match and had a problem, I would do all I could to complete the stage. It is sad but some shooters feel that cap & ball shooters are just slowing things down.

Lucky 😁

[Blackwater 53393]

1 minute ago, Lucky R. K. said:

I agree 100%. The point is that if I was working on a clean match and had a problem, I would do all I could to complete the stage. It is sad but some shooters feel that cap & ball shooters are just slowing things down.

 

 

Especially when a posse with a half dozen or more cap ‘n’ ballers is done, has cleaned their guns, and is sitting around in the Saloon thirty and forty-five minutes before the smokeless posses come off the range on successive days! And that posse was as large as any other and had only Black Powder shooters on it!!

[Lucky R. K.]

I remember.

Lucky 😁

[Griff]

20 hours ago, Ciderbarrel said:

I have never had to manually decap a nipple and I have no idea if I could do it w/o a discharge. I would have to practice that with empty cylinders.

 

What makes mose sense, to me, is what others have said -- back to the loading table, make sure the nipple is clear and recap OR load the 6th cylinder and cap that one and deal with the FTF cylinder later.

A small pocket knife will generally grab the edge of a cap, even if seated fully, and pop it off w/o issue.

On 7/6/2026 at 9:32 AM, Lucky R. K. said:

This. Always recheck your load if you have the opportunity. Once at a state match, while loading my Old Armies, I was called away to have our posse picture made. After the picture was made I went back to the loading table, capped the nipples and was called to the line. Pulled the pistols and they went "pop" 10 times, no bullets so 10 misses. Needless to say, no Cadillac. If you have the opportunity after having a problem ALWAYS recheck you load.

Lucky 😁

At EOT '88, I was charging my 1851 at my camp, when my then 10 year old son interrupted me with his emergency of the moment.  After dealing with that I headed off to my next stage, capped the revolver at the loading table and proceeded to the starting position.  Back then we only used one revolver, so only 5 potential misses... The targets were large indian head cutouts set up as KDs.  I had made up 90 grain conicals just for them, and as long as they were hit within 4" of the upper edge, they'd fall.  That had proved true with those conicals... but... Wonder Wads® just don't pack enough mass to do the job!  

On 7/6/2026 at 8:52 AM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

I would want to use a nipple pick to make certain that no residue from the fizzled cap causes a repeat FTF.

Step #1 in loading any C&B.  But, an easy visual inspection will usually tell you if it's a real immediate need.

[Lucky R. K.]

I load the cylinders off the gun. The first thing I do is hold it up to the sky and see if I see daylight thru the nipple holes. If I do then I charge the cylinder, if not, I go for the nipple pick.

Lucky 😁

Edited July 8 by Lucky R. K.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I'm not a percussion pistol shooter so I'm just asking a question on this topic. My understanding is that a percussion pistol is not considered loaded until the caps are seated. So here is my question. Per this topic some agree that the shooter should simply be able to recap the pistol on the line and restart even though the other 4 rounds in the cylinder would be considered loaded since the caps are on them. How would that be any different then if a cartridge shooter had a missfire on the first pistol shot and decided to removed the dud cartridge, replaced it, and restarted while on the line? My point being that if the cartridge shooter decided to not take the miss he would be sent to the unloading table, and then back to the loading table to reload for the reshoot. Seems to me the same rules should apply to the percussion shooter. Unless some clubs would allow the cartridge shooter to reload on the line with unfired rounds in the cylinder. We don't allow that where I shoot.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

I'm not a percussion pistol shooter so I'm just asking a question on this topic. My understanding is that a percussion pistol is not considered loaded until the caps are seated. So here is my question. Per this topic some agree that the shooter should simply be able to recap the pistol on the line and restart even though the other 4 rounds in the cylinder would be considered loaded since the caps are on them. How would that be any different then if a cartridge shooter had a missfire on the first pistol shot and decided to removed the dud cartridge, replaced it, and restarted while on the line? My point being that if the cartridge shooter decided to not take the miss he would be sent to the unloading table, and then back to the loading table to reload for the reshoot. Seems to me the same rules should apply to the percussion shooter. Unless some clubs would allow the cartridge shooter to reload on the line with unfired rounds in the cylinder. We don't allow that where I shoot.

Because Percussionists are Special?  While I can't recall the last time a suppository shooter had a misfire on their first pistol round, I would assume, that at our club, we'd be just as accommodating.  That is... if the shooter had the extra round on their person.

[Blackwater 53393]

The cartridge gun shooter, in the event of a FTF, CAN fire the next round at the first specified target and continue, loading an additional round into the required empty chamber of the gun to engage the final target in the string. Recapping a chamber where a percussion cap has failed doesn’t require unloading or even opening a loading gate. 
 

Most percussion shooters don’t charge the sixth chamber under normal circumstances because of the possibility, however remote, of a chain fire, (something cartridge guns are not capable of doing) unless the stage calls for a reload.

 

 

 

 

[Ciderbarrel]

15 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Most percussion shooters don't charge the sixth chamber under normal circumstances because of the possibility, however remote, of a chain fire, (something cartridge guns are not capable of doing) unless the stage calls for a reload.

 

I have 14 cylinders. The 12 match day cylinders only have 5 nipples for ease of capping. No worry about which is the empty one and it makes it much easier to show that the hammer is not down on a cap.

 

My other 2 have all 6 nipples, for those fun Thanksgiving and/or Christmas time matches that have the occasional pistol reloads.

 

They also double as ready-to-go loaded cylinders in case I have a reshoot.

 

I load off-gun, but I still hate loading on-site. Too many distractions and I have made mistakes because of that, like seating a ball without powder, for example. I just do all 14 the night before.