John H. Posted June 30 Posted June 30 Evening all, I am considering getting into the sport and am looking through all the equipment I will need. I’ve done a little research, but have not been able to get hands on with most of these. I would prefer used, but not modified versions on all of these. 1. 1866 vs 1873 pros and cons? I am leaning towards a 20” and .38/.357 chambering for ammo cost reasons. Should I consider the full length 24” models? 2. Uberti Schofield vs Ruger New Vaquero, also .38. My understanding is the Vaquero is a much more popular (and probably better) choice than the Schofield. I like the Schofield more in theory, but have never laid hands on one. Is it just slightly less competitive as well as being more expensive, or is there a major drawback for cowboy shooting I’m not aware of? Any other guns I should consider instead? 3. Looking at the CZ hammer coach. Any alternatives I should consider? Quote
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted June 30 Posted June 30 73's in 38 are the most popular. The 66's don't have a lever safety. Rugers are a somewhat clone of the Colt. Dang rugged great pistols. Schofields. I had a pair and sold them. They are heavy and the grip position in relationship to the hammer is difficult if you shoot dualist. As you'll see, most shooters shoot Colts, Colt clones, or Rugers. 38 is great because it will do everything required. And the ammo is the cheapest if you don't reload. 3 Quote
Dr. Zook Posted June 30 Posted June 30 (edited) As I was instructed when I first came here...go to a local club shoot, introduce yourself, explain your new and ask away. This led to an 1873, OM Vaqueros and an SKB. Be prepared for your small family group to grow if you shoot different competitions. Get with @Scarlett for a very good book on the subject. Try before you Buy ANY firearms and/or equipment. Edited June 30 by Dr. Zook 6 2 Quote
Cholla Posted July 1 Posted July 1 As someone that has to shoot a hammer coach for Classic Cowboy, I don’t recommend using one if you don’t have too. 5 1 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted July 1 Posted July 1 Much better to have at least handled various models before you buy to make sure they will work for you. I have small hands and shoot duelist style and Schofields do not work for me, also can’t shoot Beasley grips. My main match rifle is an 1866 carbine but my backup is an 1873 short rifle. I don’t recommend a 24”, had one sold it and went with shorter barrel. As Dr. Zook stated best to visit a nearby club, watch and ask questions. Bet you will be offered to try various revolvers, rifles and shotguns. Might even be offered to shoot a stage after the match is over. 3 Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 1 Posted July 1 Buy NOTHING, until you have attended a few shoots and done a hands on live fire. You may well find some good deals via a club. Do you reload? Pretty much have to when playing any gun game. 5 1 Quote
Scarlett Posted July 1 Posted July 1 57 minutes ago, John H. said: Evening all, I am considering getting into the sport and am looking through all the equipment I will need. I’ve done a little research, but have not been able to get hands on with most of these. I would prefer used, but not modified versions on all of these. 1. 1866 vs 1873 pros and cons? I am leaning towards a 20” and .38/.357 chambering for ammo cost reasons. Should I consider the full length 24” models? 2. Uberti Schofield vs Ruger New Vaquero, also .38. My understanding is the Vaquero is a much more popular (and probably better) choice than the Schofield. I like the Schofield more in theory, but have never laid hands on one. Is it just slightly less competitive as well as being more expensive, or is there a major drawback for cowboy shooting I’m not aware of? Any other guns I should consider instead? 3. Looking at the CZ hammer coach. Any alternatives I should consider? It’s THE MOST FUN EVER!! You won’t regret your decision to become a Cowboy! 🥰 The 1873 rifles in 18” or 20” rifles are most common. Rugers are pricey and can be a wee bit hard to find at the moment - try some Schofields. Several folks shoot them. I’d choose a hammer less shotgun. CZ makes a sharp tail that’s gaining in popularity. @Jack Daltons Gun Shop alias Captain Jack Dalton generally has them in stock ready to shoot! it really is a ton of fun… the saying Come for the shooting and stay for the people is TRUE!!! Feel free to contact me if I may be of help - whether you buy something or not - I love helping new shooters get in the game. I own @Bullets By Scarlett. Hugs! Scarlett 4 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted July 1 Posted July 1 1 hour ago, Dr. Zook said: As I was instructed when I first came here...go to a local club shoot, introduce yourself, explain your new and ask away. THIS ^^^^^^^ Will save you A LOT of money. Contact the match director in advance and let him/her know you are coming. They'll put the word out and fellow shooters will bring guns and ammo for you to try out. 1 1 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted July 1 Posted July 1 59 minutes ago, Cholla said: As someone that has to shoot a hammer coach for Classic Cowboy, I don’t recommend using one if you don’t have too. You could always start shooting an 87. 🤪 4 6 Quote
El Sobrante Kid Posted July 1 Posted July 1 (edited) Hi John H, Welcome to the game. Before you get your wallet out you really have to decide which group you fall into. 1) I want to be fast and competitive, 2) I want to be fast and competitive but I don't worry about being a Top Shooter, or 3) CAS looks like a lot of fun and I want to join in, maybe I win, maybe I don't. Your equipment choices, the caliber you choose to shoot, and the money (potentially big money) you spend, will largely depend on how you answer that one question. ETA my choices- I never intended to be fast or competitive, I did it for fun (competitive can be lots of fun if that is your thing). I decided to shoot 44-40 because it was a very common round back in the day and the round just "spoke to me" of the Cowboy Way. Expensive, and not a good choice if you don't reload. For the firearms, I chose a '66 24" rifle, an '87 lever action shotgun, a 5" Schofield, and a 7-1/2" 1875 Remington. All but the rifle are pretty much guaranteed to add time to every stage you shoot, LOL. BUT, I put a lot of thought into what I wanted to get out of CAS before I spent a dime. That saved me a lot of money as I am still shooting the same guns that I started with. Except the shotgun (started with a SxS, decided to try the '87, and stuck with it because I love the challenge). Edited July 1 by El Sobrante Kid 6 Quote
John Kloehr Posted July 1 Posted July 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dr. Zook said: As I was instructed when I first came here...go to a local club shoot, introduce yourself, explain your new and ask away. ... Try before you Buy ANY firearms and/or equipment. 2 hours ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said: Much better to have at least handled various models before you buy to make sure they will work for you. ... visit a nearby club, watch and ask questions. Bet you will be offered to try various revolvers, rifles and shotguns. Might even be offered to shoot a stage after the match is over. 1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Buy NOTHING, until you have attended a few shoots and done a hands on live fire. 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: THIS ^^^^^^^ Will save you A LOT of money. These ^^^^ I went with different calibers for reasons, and am gearing up to reload. I plan to switch to black powder for no good reason. This is one of many sports I shoot in and I learned a lot from the local clubs and this forum before I started spending, but my eyes were open when I did so. While I rarely attend (hey, I shoot dozens of sports and shoot about once a month), a few visits helped me a lot! And even if you only get a gun or two as you figure out how you want to participate, loaners will still get you there to fill out your brace until you figure out and find what suits you. Just the way these shooters are. They will work with you ad let you try there stuff as you work to get a full set. Many clubs even have loaner carts so no hurry there if you are fortunate enough to borrow as you acquire the long guns. Because of the help I have received, I always bring extra ammo. Have not been called on to loan my gear yet, but I would if it felt right. Others did for me. This is not an inexpensive sport to get in to, I find the draw of running "old gen" arms quickly to be a great rewarding challenge. Also love my AK so there is that. Anyway, I know of no other shooting sport where the clubs are as helpful and supportive and even open to loaning gear as in this sport. And on edit: Welcome! Edited July 1 by John Kloehr 2 Quote
Tyrel Cody Posted July 1 Posted July 1 1 hour ago, John Kloehr said: These ^^^^ black powder for no good reason. And on edit: Welcome! #1 Reason: If you can’t see the targets, the spotters can’t either… OP, Welcome, get yourself to a match ASAP. 3 3 Quote
watab kid Posted July 1 Posted July 1 ok , im going to give you my opinions and others will differ , go where you want , first off i shoot a 66 in the 20' version as well as two ruger new vaquero , i shoot a stoger thats hammerless , i shoot 45 colt , my reasons are that i like the rifle its got a nice look and it handles well , i tried a lot of revolvers including schofield and finally admitted the rugers were worth their weight in gold as they are built like tanks and require little repairs of maintenance to run , i shoot hammerless dpoulbe because my arthritis makes the hammers near impossible , i shoot 45s because when i started i thought it was the cowboy cartridge to shoot and set up ,my reloading for it since themn i learned a lot , 38s are really the prefered cartage of the fast shooters as well as the 1873 , if your starting out go there and dont look back , 1 Quote
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted July 1 Posted July 1 2 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said: Hi John H, Welcome to the game. Before you get your wallet out you really have to decide which group you fall into. 1) I want to be fast and competitive, 2) I want to be fast and competitive but I don't worry about being a Top Shooter, or 3) CAS looks like a lot of fun and I want to join in, maybe I win, maybe I don't. Your equipment choices, and the money you spend, will largely depend on how you answer. What is your motivation for CAS? Mine is to enjoy myself. I won't be competitive so I like to utilize different firearms for fun. My typical set up is two S&W Schofields, an 1887 (either an original or Chiappa) and a Winchester (Miroku) 73. Followed closely by a USFA Lightning and further back - a Spencer, Henry and an original Winchester 1873 Musket. I have Rugers, AWA's, USFA's and an ASM Richards Mason that I have used in the past. I also have some Colts. I have 97's and one hammered double. For our 4th of July match, I plan to use a Merwin Hulbert, a S&W model three, the 1873 Musket and the original Winchester 1887 shotgun. It will be my first try at using all pre-1900 firearms in a match. 3 Quote
Scarlett Posted July 1 Posted July 1 I just looked at your profile and see you are in North Carolina. I’m in Laurens, SC south of Greenville. There are FABULOUS cowboys and cowgirls in NC! Western, Middle and on the Coast. Here is a link to the clubs in NC. If I may be of further help just let me know! https://sassnccowboys.com/nc-clubs Look forward to seeing you at a match! Hugs! Scarlett 3 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted July 1 Posted July 1 8 hours ago, John Kloehr said: I plan to switch to black powder for no good reason. What about the cookies? Everyone knows that the Dark Side has cookies. 🤠 2 2 Quote
KatfishKid Posted July 1 Posted July 1 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: What about the cookies? Everyone knows that the Dark Side has cookies. 🤠 I've been shooting black powder all year and have yet to get a single cookie! I switched to BP for the cookies! I was scammed. 1 5 Quote
Cholla Posted July 1 Posted July 1 11 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: You could always start shooting an 87. 🤪 I could, but I have enough train wrecks as it is. 1 1 Quote
Cholla Posted July 1 Posted July 1 8 hours ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said: My typical set up is two S&W Schofields, an 1887 (either an original or Chiappa) and a Winchester (Miroku) 73. Followed closely by a USFA Lightning and further back - a Spencer, Henry and an original Winchester 1873 Musket. For our 4th of July match, I plan to use a Merwin Hulbert, a S&W model three, the 1873 Musket and the original Winchester 1887 shotgun. It will be my first try at using all pre-1900 firearms in a match. Don't let IR fool you. He uses the 1873 musket to save ammunition. All he has to do is use the muzzle of the gun to tap the targets! 1 Quote
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted July 1 Posted July 1 (edited) 7 hours ago, Scarlett said: I just looked at your profile and see you are in North Carolina. I’m in Laurens, SC south of Greenville. There are FABULOUS cowboys and cowgirls in NC! Western, Middle and on the Coast. Here is a link to the clubs in NC. If I may be of further help just let me know! https://sassnccowboys.com/nc-clubs Look forward to seeing you at a match! Hugs! Scarlett Walnut Grove Rangers are shooting on Saturday (a great way to celebrate Independence Day). That is a small group and probably a great opportunity to meet some folks. You are welcome to come to Greenville, SC. You just missed our June match, though. Get to a local match. Keep your wallet closed until you do. Edited July 1 by Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 3 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted July 1 Posted July 1 35 minutes ago, KatfishKid said: I've been shooting black powder all year and have yet to get a single cookie! I switched to BP for the cookies! I was scammed. Check with @Scarlett 1 Quote
Ciderbarrel Posted July 1 Posted July 1 1 hour ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said: Walnut Grove Rangers are shooting on Saturday (a great way to celebrate Independence Day). That is a small group and probably a great opportunity to meet some folks. You are welcome to come to Greenville, SC. You just missed our June match, though. Get to a local match. Keep your wallet closed until you do. Here in Salisbury, The Old North State Posse was supposed to shoot Saturday, but the Board got together this past weekend and we decided to cancel our match because of the heat for Friday setup and the actual match Saturday. They are still calling for triple digits this weekend, so I do not regret my Cancel vote at all. I hope everyone at the WG match can keep cool! 1 Quote
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted July 1 Posted July 1 Go to some matches and check out what folks are using. I have both Ruger New Vaquero and Uberti 1876 Cattleman pistols. I prefer the Uberti. I have two Uberti '73 rifles. One in 20" and one in 24". I find the 24" to be front heavy and the 20" more balanced. Hammer shotguns are neat, and I have one, but I stick to the SxS hammerless. Quote
WindyCity Red Posted July 1 Posted July 1 18 hours ago, John H. said: Evening all, I am considering getting into the sport and am looking through all the equipment I will need. I’ve done a little research, but have not been able to get hands on with most of these. I would prefer used, but not modified versions on all of these. 1. 1866 vs 1873 pros and cons? I am leaning towards a 20” and .38/.357 chambering for ammo cost reasons. Should I consider the full length 24” models? 2. Uberti Schofield vs Ruger New Vaquero, also .38. My understanding is the Vaquero is a much more popular (and probably better) choice than the Schofield. I like the Schofield more in theory, but have never laid hands on one. Is it just slightly less competitive as well as being more expensive, or is there a major drawback for cowboy shooting I’m not aware of? Any other guns I should consider instead? 3. Looking at the CZ hammer coach. Any alternatives I should consider? 73s easier to take down n clean. I have both....Ruger far superior for competition as far as upgrades...I have both...who knew. Just saying. Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted July 1 Posted July 1 6 hours ago, Cholla said: I could, but I have enough train wrecks as it is. But if you were shooting an 87 your train wrecks would be epic. 🤠 4 2 Quote
Scarlett Posted July 1 Posted July 1 7 hours ago, KatfishKid said: I've been shooting black powder all year and have yet to get a single cookie! I switched to BP for the cookies! I was scammed. That’s @The Revenuers fault! Hugs! Scarlett 2 Quote
Ciderbarrel Posted July 1 Posted July 1 19 minutes ago, Scarlett said: That’s @The Revenuers fault! Hugs! Scarlett 3 Quote
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted July 1 Posted July 1 (edited) I have original Vaquero 44 Mag 2 Pairs 7.5 inch built like tanks heavier than New Vaqueros Colts or clones. A pair of 45 colt New Vaqueros 7 5 inch slightly larger and a bit heavier than Colts or Clones. A pair of 45 colt schofields a bit of a reach for the thumb to cock dualistic not an issue two handed one thing to note no finger pressure on trigger or you cannot cock hammer. Have a pair of uberti cattlemen 44-40 5 5 inches shoot great almost light enough for me to shoot one handed with trashed shoulders Have a pair of Taurus deputies in 357 they are solid guns shoot where pointed. I shoot 38 spec level loads out of .357 mag brass mostly because I do not want to clean car on rings out of the cylinders. Also have pair of single six .32 HRM love them light enough I can shoot them duelist. Have 1873 Miroku 44-40 short rifle Uberi 1860 Henry in 45 Colt made the Henry stick to stop mag follower before it hits hand after 8th thru 10th round Also 45 colt and 32 HRM marlin 94s. Have 1892 miroku 44 mag 357 mag carbines and rossi 44 mag 20 inch carbine and 24 inch Short Rifle. The miroku 73 is slick out of the box with a shorter leaver throw than a uberti 1860 Henry, 1966 or 1873s when stock a tad longer than those rifles short strocked.A short rifle will have about 3/4 inch longer length of poll than a carbine. 1892s will be a bit slower than 1873s but cost 1/3 to 1/2 less than tricked out 73s. Best reason to shot a 92 is that is what John Wayne used. Marlin 94s are pretty slick and fast but have thick unsightly to me fore-ends Edited July 1 by Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Quote
Slow Poke Posted July 1 Posted July 1 Depending on your category of what you listed here is my opinion. Between a 66 or a 73 the 73. Reasons are the 66 loading ladle is more prone to breakage, it is a weak link that will breat unless you take steps to stop it. I know it happened to me. The lever safety on a 73 is a nice feature and Depending on your style and speed may keep you from a out of battery discharge. I prefer a 20 or even 18 inch barrel as they seem to balance better and we do not shoot very long distances. The Schofield and vaquero. I would go vaqueros. They are built like tanks, and Depending on your shooting style and grip they are alot more universally comfortable. I had a pair of Schofields and the grip angle is very different from a colt style, I loved the idea of Schofields but couldn't make the grip work for me. Unless you just like a hammered double I would suggest a hammerless, stoegers are readily available for cheap and while they are not fancy they always go bang. If you heart is set on a hammered double I would suggest a ttn or the Cimarron clone, the hammers are closer together and make them easier to cock between shots, this experience also comes from having owned both. How this helps, Slow poke Ps An 1887 lever action 12ga for your shotgun is about the most fun you can have but I am biase. 😁 2 Quote
John H. Posted July 2 Author Posted July 2 First off, I’d like to thank everyone for all the wisdom and advice. I’d not given much thought to just observing a match as a starting point, but agree that would probably be a good idea. Secondly, as far as firearm choice, I was already leaning towards an 1873, and am even more so now. I’d still like to get hands on with both the 66 and 73 just to sure. My only experience shooting old west guns is an HRA 1860, which I am selling due to advice and research suggesting that it isn’t up to the rigors of competition shooting, not to mention the cost of .44-40 when you don’t reload. I really like the action and look of the 1860, which is why I haven’t ruled out the 1866 completely. As for the handguns, I just think the Schofields are much cooler. I’d really like to get one in hand to see if I like it in practice. I’ve held, but not fired, a Ruger new vaquero and liked it, but didn’t love it. From a collecting standpoint I much prefer the Schofield, though I’d like to own an SAA as well. I know the vaquero is almost certainly better, but is the Schofield so much worse that I should avoid it? I am okay with it being less competitive, as long as it won’t be a major handicap or cause me other headaches down the road such as needing expensive maintenance the vaquero wouldn’t. My interest in the Hammer Coach is much the same as the Schofield. I simply think it’s cool, and would like to go that route as long as it’s only a slight competitive edge I might be losing and not something worse. Finally I’d like to get to @El Sobrante Kid ’s question as I think it’s consistent with my firearm interests above. I’m somewhere between 2 and 3 on the question of what kind of competitor I am/want to be. I have never competed in any matches, but have done a decent amount of 2 gun style shooting drills and training with a shot timer. I am a decent rifle shot and an adequate rifle shot, but I don’t have the time, money, or drive to be a highly competitive shooter. I’m interested in SASS because I think I think it would be a lot of fun and the more I shoot, the more I like old guns. I have all the firearms and equipment to shoot modern 2 gun matches, and I still might, but I just don’t find the idea as compelling. The final wrinkle is I work Saturdays, so attending matches right now is a problem. I will be unable to compete regularly for some time, but I’d like to go ahead and start collecting the firearms I will need. Even if SASS shooting doesn’t work out for me, I still love old west guns, and that’s why my preferences might not be the most competitive. With any luck, I should be able to get on to a M-F schedule in a year or two (I work a union job and it’s a seniority thing). If you read this far, thanks for bearing with the long winded post. 2 1 Quote
John Kloehr Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) I shoot in a lot of sports. For this sport, please do handle before buying. Let the club know before you show up, will likely be lots of pards with extra ammo saying "try mine." And do not just observe, do some shootin'. I always bring an extra box of ammo on the rare times I can show up. I'm partial to '73s myself but there are at least a couple other choices. Partly my choices are based on my alias and the history behind the historical character. For a '73, the safe bet is Uberti but I went with Winchester (Miroku). This opens a can of worms and lots of considerations. Not many race parts for a Miroku but it does not need much, Uberti has a lot of aftermarket support. Scratch an Uberti and the stock needs refinishing, scratch a Miroku and fix it with some oil. I perhaps exaggerate a bit. Reloading... Even .38 Special ammo (a very common and safe option) is now harder to find for this sport, can not use the commercial copper-jacketed rounds. By law, I could not sell you any ammo I reload as this requires a certain license. You may end up reloading at some point anyway. Keep this in mind. At $1 per round at the store, less than half that if reloading, breakeven would be a couple years if you show up every month. Maybe someone in your area has a license to "remanufacture" ammunition. This is legally different from reloading even if the only difference is a license to do so. Anyway, I went with a Miroku in 44-40 and revolvers in .44 Special but running .44 Russian and plan to go to black powder (sub) for no good reason. Also Stoeger 12 ga and will try brass shells with black (sub). For the Stoeger, I chose a dual trigger for no good reason. Main thing is to have fun. I like the lack of attitude in this community. Unlike in 3gun and some other shooting sports, this one is just more enjoyable. I'm hoping to double my participation and show up twice this year. Edited July 2 by John Kloehr 3 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Find some clubs that shoot on Sunday. 2 Quote
Ol Salty Sailor Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) First of all, welcome. You will hear from a lot of folks to wait in any purchase until you have attended a match (or a few). Their advice holds wisdom. This game is expensive but some of that can be alleviated but not buying things that you will then soon replace. At a minimum you will need two single action revolvers, a pistol caliber rifle and a shot gun. You will need the gun leather, you will need a gun cart, Also investing in reloading equipment will pay for itself. If you opt to shoot either of the Classic Cowboy or B-Western you will need firearms and gun leather that meet the criteria. ie caliber and year the model was introduced. Buy the guns you enjoy shooting! As for a hammered double, they are fun but outside of the Classic Cowboy category they slow you down just a bit. Most people use a standard double. '73 vs '66 very similar guns in that the action is almost the same. The '66 brass receiver is heavier. Lots of aftermarket go fast parts are avaliable for the '73's Barrel length depends on you, for most CAS stages a shorter barrel is easier to move around props and targets are close. That is my two cents. Just somethings to consider. As long as they meet the SASS rules there are really no wrong choices. Ol' Salty Sailor Edited July 2 by Ol Salty Sailor grammer 1 Quote
Arth Ritis Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) I am on a similar path having only attended one match as a spectator. Buying used/clearance has been a help. Already owning some things helped as well even if I would like to eventually replace some of them. I failed to follow all of this sage advice and knew I was violating it... but a used 1873 uberti in 45colt came up for sale locally... and I already had the hammered coach gun... and knew I was interested in the costuming... so now I'm trying to decide on pistols for classic cowboy... problem is I want about 3 different pairs and would like to have the ability to move to gunfighter outside of classic cowboy.... strongly considering the dark side but it doesn't seem the most prudent way to start even if it isn't my first shooting sport would be my first black powder. Do I expect to be competitive? Not any time soon at least... *edit* going to try and take some advice of try before I purchase on the pistols some more despite having ignored .38/12gauge in favor of the 45colt and 20 gauge I already had (tho I will likely move to 12 at some point... I have quite a bit more 12 around than 20 from trap shooting but only an over under not appropriate for SASS although if I can secure a good supply of 20 gauge wads maybe not) Edited July 2 by Arth Ritis Quote
watab kid Posted July 2 Posted July 2 i knew you would get a lot of advice with this thread , please read it and ponder it there is a lot of great advice here , particularly those that encourage you to experience before major investment and to participate and ask questions , dont go out and buy a lot without talking to folks , cowboys/girls are great folks and will give you honest answers as well as steer you to good choices 1 Quote
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