Griff Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 1st, let me say thank you to the Oakwood Outlaws for hosting the R.O.B.S. & CAS classes this past Saturday. Gunslinger did a masterful job of pounding some semblence of information in the thick skulls in attendance. Mine especially. However, and as an aside to that, my question is posed to those that have attended both types of RO training. What did you like about the RO1 & 2 courses, and what do you think of the new R.OB.S. CAS & WB format? I've attended a few of the old format from different instructors, and just the one R.O.B.S. course, being as new as it is. I remember my initial training as an TO... I think Hipshot thrust a stopwatch at me and said, "...here, make yourself useful!" Genuine OTJT. I'd like to think I was good at it, but truthfully, I know I made my share of mistakes... probably like most other TOs of the time and like experience. I truly welcomed the RO courses when they came to be, and feel it was a vast improvement over the original method! Anyway, I'd like to hear what y'all think! Vent away, Politely, as remember, members or not, we're all guests here! Edited June 1 by Griff somehow hit the "return" key far too early! 3 Quote
Old Man Graybeard Posted June 1 Posted June 1 The only thing I didn't really care for...is that you had to go through the ROBS twice...once for the cowboy action part and again for the Wild Bunch. If it has been a while...no problem. But if you are doing both the same weekend... 1 Quote
Griff Posted June 1 Author Posted June 1 I don't know, as I didn't ask, but couldn't you take both the CAS & WB portions on the same day? Gunslinger had the materials there for the WB portion, but that I knew, nobody had signed up for it. 1 Quote
Uncle Ethan # 94321 Posted June 1 Posted June 1 I like not having the separate RO1 &2. Class. I think the CAS and WB modules could be taught at the same time. The problem we are having in my area is that we don't have any WB instructors. Also time should be made for those who have never run the timer to do so. I know this would make for a long day, but a lot are still reluctant to running the timer during a match. 5 2 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted June 1 Posted June 1 4 hours ago, Old Man Graybeard said: The only thing I didn't really care for...is that you had to go through the ROBS twice...once for the cowboy action part and again for the Wild Bunch. If it has been a while...no problem. But if you are doing both the same weekend... Bet that was just the instructor set up the two classes. No reason to take the ROBS twice. 1 Quote
El Sobrante Kid Posted June 1 Posted June 1 2 hours ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said: I like not having the separate RO1 &2. Class. I think the CAS and WB modules could be taught at the same time. The problem we are having in my area is that we don't have any WB instructors. Also time should be made for those who have never run the timer to do so. I know this would make for a long day, but a lot are still reluctant to running the timer during a match. This could be split out. Anyone comfortable with a timer can head home, anyone who wants to stay for some hands-on practice is welcome to stay and get some training. 4 Quote
Two Dot, 14911 Posted June 2 Posted June 2 Earlier this year I did the ROBS and both the cowboy and WB modules on the same day. We were told that if you did them on separate days that you had to do the ROBS on each day. 3 Quote
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted June 2 Posted June 2 (edited) 23 hours ago, Griff said: 1st, let me say thank you to the Oakwood Outlaws for hosting the R.O.B.S. & CAS classes this past Saturday. Gunslinger did a masterful job of pounding some semblence of information in the thick skulls in attendance. Mine especially. However, and as an aside to that, my question is posed to those that have attended both types of RO training. What did you like about the RO1 & 2 courses, and what do you think of the new R.OB.S. CAS & WB format? I've attended a few of the old format from different instructors, and just the one R.O.B.S. course, being as new as it is. I remember my initial training as an TO... I think Hipshot thrust a stopwatch at me and said, "...here, make yourself useful!" Genuine OTJT. I'd like to think I was good at it, but truthfully, I know I made my share of mistakes... probably like most other TOs of the time and like experience. I truly welcomed the RO courses when they came to be, and feel it was a vast improvement over the original method! Anyway, I'd like to hear what y'all think! Vent away, Politely, as remember, members or not, we're all guests here! I agree RO courses are certainly well worth re-attending, maybe at least every few years. I taught them for many years but honestly, 2022 probably was last time to have had class as "student". Both with Sassy as I wanted her to get proper knowledge of rules. [ I believe RO I was CoJac (miss him)and RO II TJD. ] I PM often, and have for many years. I know current knowledge is important. Heck get behind sometimes on few changes. And yes we as TOs and PMs make mistakes. I have made a couple that have "rode with me" for many years. Hopefully mistakes are extremely few and not serious score treats, and for sure something both parties (if other party was even aware) understand and get over with "it's a game" attitude. Gunslinger is certainly one of the best among instructors, as is TJD. Edited June 2 by Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator 3 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 2 Posted June 2 14 hours ago, Old Man Graybeard said: The only thing I didn't really care for...is that you had to go through the ROBS twice...once for the cowboy action part and again for the Wild Bunch. If it has been a while...no problem. But if you are doing both the same weekend... According to SAS HQ, if you can show that you've already taken ROBS (the pin) you don't have to take ROBS again 5 1 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 2 Posted June 2 11 hours ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said: I like not having the separate RO1 &2. Class. I think the CAS and WB modules could be taught at the same time. The problem we are having in my area is that we don't have any WB instructors. Also time should be made for those who have never run the timer to do so. I know this would make for a long day, but a lot are still reluctant to running the timer during a match. I understand SASS is working on a Timer Operator course to go along with the Modules. 7 1 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 2 Posted June 2 12 hours ago, Griff said: I don't know, as I didn't ask, but couldn't you take both the CAS & WB portions on the same day? Gunslinger had the materials there for the WB portion, but that I knew, nobody had signed up for it. Yes, CAS and WB Modules can be taught the same day. I did it at 7 times since the change, including EOT. 3 1 Quote
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted June 2 Posted June 2 15 hours ago, Old Man Graybeard said: The only thing I didn't really care for...is that you had to go through the ROBS twice...once for the cowboy action part and again for the Wild Bunch. If it has been a while...no problem. But if you are doing both the same weekend... If you have taken say ROBS and WB but there was no cowboy class, as long as you have evidence of completion of ROBS (pin works) you can attend the next scheduled class for the cowboy module without repeating ROBS. Regards Gateway KId 3 2 Quote
Griff Posted June 2 Author Posted June 2 10 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said: I understand SASS is working on a Timer Operator course to go along with the Modules. Thank you. I hope that it will include some of the actual hands-on element from the old RO2 course. That's really the only portion of the old courses that I missed... and really felt helped prepare someone that hasn't held the timer before. Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 2 Posted June 2 52 minutes ago, Griff said: Thank you. I hope that it will include some of the actual hands-on element from the old RO2 course. That's really the only portion of the old courses that I missed... and really felt helped prepare someone that hasn't held the timer before. I do a follow up of the Modules for those who have never held the timer or run a posse. We do it at the range just like ROII. Stage from hell and all. Yes, it's a good thing for everyone to know the rules and standards of the game. It's just as important, if not more so, to know how to run a posse, timer, spotter etc. 5 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 10 Posted June 10 2 hours ago, Bugler said: What is ROBS? There's going to be a ROBS, CAS, WB course at the Montana State Match. Class is on July 14, from 0900 until done, usually 6 hours for ROBS, CAS and WB. go to Bitterrootbuckaroos.org and look for the State Match schedule Quote
Bugler Posted June 10 Posted June 10 What does all of this offer that I don't offer as a Black Pin Instructor? Bugler 1 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 10 Posted June 10 8 hours ago, Bugler said: What does all of this offer that I don't offer as a Black Pin Instructor? Bugler If you are a Black Pin Instructor, you'll know ROI and ROII are no more. ROBS, CAS, WB has taken their place. As a shooter, new or experienced, ROBS, CAS, WB is designed to expose everyone to SASS Safety, and firearm, conventions and rules. SASS Safety Guidelines are the same for both Cowboy and Wild Bunch, there are specifics for each that are covered in those modules. As for what does this offer? The chance to be current in SASS Safety and Basic Range Operations. 5 2 Quote
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said: If you are a Black Pin Instructor, you'll know ROI and ROII are no more. ROBS, CAS, WB has taken their place. As a shooter, new or experienced, ROBS, CAS, WB is designed to expose everyone to SASS Safety, and firearm, conventions and rules. SASS Safety Guidelines are the same for both Cowboy and Wild Bunch, there are specifics for each that are covered in those modules. As for what does this offer? The chance to be current in SASS Safety and Basic Range Operations. Since ROBS became the official training program last May,of 2025, that is all I have used in the classes I have taught. Didn't think ROI & ROII were even available anymore. Regards Gateway Kid Edited June 10 by Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life added year 1 Quote
wyliefoxEsquire Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) I have a different approach on the new courses. With my 40+ years of teaching experience, presenting ROBS, CAS & WBAS in 5-6 hours is just that "Presenting". That is all there is time to do. Combined the three courses have 327 slides not including the test question slides. [See comments below for correction] That is about 11 seconds per slide. Yes, some slides are just titles and many slides have multiple levels (bullet points). In my experience, it is the discussions that have the greatest value. Especially from the senior shooters. Together the senior shooters likely have more experience and real-time examples than the person in the front of the room. As the trainer, I see my role as guiding the comments of the senior shooters along with the slides. I did present-teach all three on one day. We started at 8AM, finished at 4:30PM with a working lunch. It was commented that it was a L O N G day. My preference would be ROBS one day and CAS - WBAS on another day which would include live fire on range, stage design and holding the clock. Edited June 10 by wyliefoxEsquire Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 10 Posted June 10 8 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said: I have a different approach on the new courses. With my 40+ years of teaching experience, presenting ROBS, CAS & WBAS in 5-6 hours is just that "Presenting". That is all there is time to do. Combined the three courses have 327 slides not including the test question slides. That is about 11 seconds per slide. Yes, some slides are just titles and many slides have multiple levels (bullet points). In my experience, it is the discussions that have the greatest value. Especially from the senior shooters. Together the senior shooters likely have more experience and real-time examples than the person in the front of the room. As the trainer, I see my role as guiding the comments of the senior shooters along with the slides. I did present-teach all three on one day. We started at 8AM, finished at 4:30PM with a working lunch. It was commented that it was a L O N G day. My preference would be ROBS one day and CAS - WBAS on another day which would include live fire on range, stage design and holding the clock. Taught all three, on the same day, 9 times now. If you limit the discussions to pertinent and on point, it's easy to do all in 6 hours with time off for lunch. You do have to control the comments though. 1 Quote
wyliefoxEsquire Posted June 10 Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Flying W Ramrod said: Taught all three, on the same day, 9 times now. If you limit the discussions to pertinent and on point, it's easy to do all in 6 hours with time off for lunch. You do have to control the comments though. That is where I differ. 6 hours is NOT ideal in a teaching environment. Interactions is what keeps students engaged. Yes it can be done in 6 hours. That is not my style. As I said, it is my goal to guide the comments in sync with the slides, keeping all the students engaged. BTW, I have been told by some who took all three in one day that is was very boring and long. Those students were NOT engaged, they just wanted it to be over. The goal should be more than getting the "pin". We all have different styles. 2 Quote
Tennessee williams Posted June 10 Posted June 10 3 hours ago, wyliefoxEsquire said: With my 40+ years of teaching experience, presenting ROBS, CAS & WBAS in 5-6 hours is just that "Presenting". That is all there is time to do. Combined the three courses have 327 slides not including the test question slides. That is about 11 seconds per slide. If you only spend 11 seconds per slide with 327 slides that is 327x11=3,597 seconds spent teaching. Divide that by 60 seconds in a minute 3,597÷60=59.95 minutes. So you're finishing in under an hour? Out of curiosity, what subject did you teach? I'm just ribbing you, I couldn't help it. 2 Quote
wyliefoxEsquire Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) That was GREAT!!!! Still laughing Thanks Correction: about 1 minute per slide = 327 minutes = 5.5 hours My points remain the same. And YES I am still laughing. Edited June 10 by wyliefoxEsquire 2 1 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 10 Posted June 10 2 hours ago, wyliefoxEsquire said: That is where I differ. 6 hours is NOT ideal in a teaching environment. Interactions is what keeps students engaged. Yes it can be done in 6 hours. That is not my style. As I said, it is my goal to guide the comments in sync with the slides, keeping all the students engaged. BTW, I have been told by some who took all three in one day that is was very boring and long. Those students were NOT engaged, they just wanted it to be over. The goal should be more than getting the "pin". We all have different styles. As long as we teach to the same syllabus, it doesn't matter how long, just how much the students take in. You do you, I'll do me. Quote
wyliefoxEsquire Posted June 10 Posted June 10 35 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said: just how much the students take in. You do you, I'll do me. Agreed Quote
Griff Posted June 10 Author Posted June 10 5 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said: As long as we teach to the same syllabus, it doesn't matter how long, just how much the students take in. Aye, the "taking it in" is what's important. I believe that without that "hands on" experience of the ROII, the "taking it in" is diminished. As I'm sure that many others can attest, during their working careers, they've met quite a few test savvy idiots. Learning is best re-inforced with "DOING". 4 1 Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 10 Posted June 10 5 minutes ago, Griff said: Aye, the "taking it in" is what's important. I believe that without that "hands on" experience of the ROII, the "taking it in" is diminished. As I'm sure that many others can attest, during their working careers, they've met quite a few test savvy idiots. Learning is best re-inforced with "DOING". Why I, always, ask if everyone has taken ROII or run a posse. Note: not run a timer, but run a posse. The one's who have never done so, I do a Practical session, after, with time, shooter from hell, stage from hell, etc. They get the old ROII set up for timers. Helps 1 Quote
wyliefoxEsquire Posted June 11 Posted June 11 1 hour ago, Griff said: Aye, the "taking it in" is what's important. I agree, an open book exam does not evaluate "taking it in", this is where discussion has value. "oh, now I get it" is a strong clue as to "getting it". 1 hour ago, Griff said: I believe that without that "hands on" experience of the ROII, the "taking it in" is diminished. ...and why spending more time has value, ie. on another day. Versus doing all three in six hours. Quote
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 11 Posted June 11 All this being said, I've had 30+ students, only 1 had not taken ROI ROII before. All but 1 had run a posse. Tailoring your teaching to the crowd is important, so is the material we teach. OBTW, that 1, who hadn't run a posse before, is now running WB posse's twice a month. And has been for 6 months Quote
wyliefoxEsquire Posted June 11 Posted June 11 1 hour ago, Flying W Ramrod said: Tailoring your teaching to the crowd is important, so is the material we teach I fully agree 1 hour ago, Flying W Ramrod said: OBTW, that 1, who hadn't run a posse before, is now running WB posse's twice a month. And has been for 6 months Great news Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.