.380 or 9mm or .38 Super

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Given the recently released 73 from Taylors in 9mm but has had some decidedly mixed reviews, and the soon to be released Volcanic pistol from Uberti, the Tippman Pirate Pistol, and the reproduction cap and ball conversion (I forget which model) in .380, and the fact that both of those cartridges are rimless but that .38 Super is semi-rimmed, a random thought occurred to me.

If you could get a main match rifle and revolver combo in what is traditionally thought of a smaller cartridge for autoloading pistols, which of those three calibers would you want it to be in?

.380 has the advantage that a revolver already exists, and in a lever gun would have a natural short stroke.   

9mm has the advantage of being a very generically popular caliber that is very cheap to reload.   I am not 100% certain, but I think I recall reading that there are single action revolvers available either made that way, or via a spare cylinder.  If Taylors can work out the issues we've read about with their 73, it's already all there.  

.38 Super has the factor of it being a wicked cool cartridge going for it, but nothing is currently available.   Also, as semi-rimmed cartridge, it might be easier to convert something that already exists to the caliber with less complicated reworking.

Personally, I'd like to see something in .380.   Preferably a Lightning, (naturally) but I'd be just as happy with a 73 or a 92.

I think having things in .38 Super would also be, well, wicked cool.  

I am not personally interested in something in 9mm, but it would probably be the best seller of the three options.

Anyone care to voice their opinion?

Edited May 6 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[July Smith]

IMHO cowboy style guns in popular calibers like the 9mm and 380 are mainly going to appeal to non-sass shooters.  Reloading is pretty much a requirement for this sport and there is nothing easier than reloading 38 special.  The 38 super is a cool caliber, but I would only ever care to have a 1911 chambered in one.  

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

2 hours ago, July Smith said:

IMHO cowboy style guns in popular calibers like the 9mm and 380 are mainly going to appeal to non-sass shooters.  Reloading is pretty much a requirement for this sport and there is nothing easier than reloading 38 special.  The 38 super is a cool caliber, but I would only ever care to have a 1911 chambered in one.  

I agree with July. If you're going to shoot 380 or 38 Super you're going to have to reload as finding them factory loaded isn't easy or cheap, not to mention with lead bulles. If you're going to reload then load the easy 38 Special. Now 9mm is easy and fairly inexpensive to find, but if you're going to use it for SASS then you need lead bullets, which isn't so easy to find, and again you'll need to reload them.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Oh, I assume reloading for any of these calibers.   But that's not a problem as most of us reload for whatever calibers we already use anyway.  

I already load all three of these for other reasons, using the same lead bullet for all three of them.   

Not for any SASS use, but I do reload them.   I have a feeling I'd reload them more if there was a SASS application for them.    I really can see myself using the .380 a lot.   Even if I never use it at a SASS match, the Uberti Volcanic and Tippmann Pirate will see to it.   And I may yet get one of those Uberti 1862s chambered for .380 sold by Cimarron.  (I looked it up.)  Having a rifle in the caliber would be fun.

Looking back at .38 Super, or even the identically dimensioned .38 ACP that has much lower pressures, that might be very easy to work with.  Granted these all use .355" bullets so they'd be undersized in a typical .38 caliber gun, but not by much.   I've read that this round can, sometimes, chamber in a revolver made for .357 Magnum.    I've never tried it, but a quick check tells me that while .38 Super has higher pressures than .357 Magnum, .38 ACP has lower pressures.   Maybe I'll see if they simply fit, and then take it from there.   Granted, .38 Short Colt DOES fit, so there is no need for the ACP/Super to be used if you want a short and stubby round.   But sometimes one can't help but wonder about "possibilities."

Edited May 6 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[Wild Eagle]

I'm not sure why y'all think that lead 9MM bullets are hard to find, but they are available at a lot of places.  It is also a very easy round to reload and the brass is cheap and readily available.  Given the three choices I would go with 9MM just because it is easy to reload, readily available and cheap.  If you're using it for your main match ammo those three things are important to me.

[El Chapo]

I wish I could have found a pair of Rugers with the 9mm cylinders.  As soon as they're available, I will be buying a pair and sending them to Boogie.  They have been on order for ~2 years.

 

I don't know that I'd mess with a 9mm 73, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.  Personally, I want to go to 9mm for smokeless so I can segregate my black powder and smokeless ammo easily, and use the cheap 9mm brass.  I have tons of 38s, but many more 9mms.

 

I don't load .380 or .38 Super, and I think the rim on the .38 Super would cause more problems than it solves.

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

Just as an aside, I used to run some bowling pin matches. The 380 was the only round I saw that bounced off of a bowling pin.

[Nickle]

Going from memory and im not really into modern pistols. 
I think the idea of the semi rimmed super was for a dual cartridge that could function in 1911 and also in revolvers without moon clips 

Then because of Philippines they lost interest in 38 caliber. 
Then im remembering something about later on guys learned they could jack up pressure in 1911 by changing to a barrel with more cartridge support and built in feed ramp. So with 38 super they gained magazine capacity as well. 
I think 9mm is most boring cartridge in the world so I guess a 38 super is better just because everyone doesn’t have one but I would rather have a 45.  Colt and 45 just go together 

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

I used to have a Colt commander in 38 super.  Beautiful gun.

Horace

[watab kid]

15 hours ago, July Smith said:

IMHO cowboy style guns in popular calibers like the 9mm and 380 are mainly going to appeal to non-sass shooters.  Reloading is pretty much a requirement for this sport and there is nothing easier than reloading 38 special.  The 38 super is a cool caliber, but I would only ever care to have a 1911 chambered in one.  

i agree , they hAVE NO PLACE IN OUR GAME  but if you like it go for it 

[Erasmus]

If someone already shoots IDPA or IPSC or some other modern shooting sport with a 9mm, picking up a pair of SAA clones and a rifle in 9mm wood be an easy choice. You get to use the same dies, same brass, same primers, maybe even the same coated lead bullets, and maybe even the same powder. That seems like a no brainer. Buy a few guns, a new wardrobe from Tractor Supply, and some gun leather and you're set. I imagine in some states you could get the guns, the wardrobe, and the leather from the same place and still have time to pick up donuts for the posse. 

Edited May 8 by Erasmus

[El Chapo]

4 hours ago, Erasmus said:

If someone already shoots IDPA or IPSC or some other modern shooting sport with a 9mm, picking up a pair of SAA clones and a rifle in 9mm wood be an easy choice. You get to use the same dies, same brass, same primers, maybe even the same coated lead bullets, and maybe even the same powder. That seems like a no brainer. Buy a few guns, a new wardrobe from Tractor Supply, and some gun leather and you're set. I imagine in some states you could get the guns, the wardrobe, and the leather from the same place and still have time to pick up donuts for the posse. 

 

I guess, as long as 133 pf ammo is what you want to shoot.  It might be slightly lighter out of a revolver but I would not want to shoot my USPSA/IDPA load in CAS, it'd be excessive.  

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

I use the same 130 gr LFP bullets in my .38 super and my .38 cowboy loads. Browning designed the .32 ACP and 38 ACP ( later super) with larger rims to headspace on. I use .32 ACP cases loaded to .32 S&W specs for my pocket pistols, only because I have lots of cases. All 3 will cost about the same to reload. I'd use 9mm myself, go to any range and pick up all the brass you want.

[Erasmus]

On 5/8/2026 at 4:52 AM, El Chapo said:

 

I guess, as long as 133 pf ammo is what you want to shoot.  It might be slightly lighter out of a revolver but I would not want to shoot my USPSA/IDPA load in CAS, it'd be excessive.  

I wasn't suggesting that you should use the same load; just that you could probably use most of the same components. you can probably use the same poly coated lead bullet, and might be able to use a lighter charge of the same powder. 

[El Chapo]

14 hours ago, Erasmus said:

I wasn't suggesting that you should use the same load; just that you could probably use most of the same components. you can probably use the same poly coated lead bullet, and might be able to use a lighter charge of the same powder. 

 

All of that is almost certainly true.  I wouldn't use the same powder, but I certainly could, and my Chapo ~150 grain round nose would work fine.

 

I think if I was optimizing for CAS I'd use the same bullet I use in .38 (125 Lee RF), which feeds in most all of my 9mms, too, and probably the same powder.

Edited May 10 by El Chapo

[Boggus Deal #64218]

I’d love a 1928 Thompson in .38 Super.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

3 hours ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I’d love a 1928 Thompson in .38 Super.

 

You sound like a Zoot Shooter.   That's a good thing.

[Doc Moses]

9mm

[Joe West]

   New calibers are great for lever gun sales and most factory stuff with flat point bullets should work most of the time in tubular magazines. The problem that arises is the same as the issue with revolvers using auto pistol caliber rounds : bullet jump/creep  due to the lack of a secure crimp. Auto pistol rounds headspace on the case mouth so the crimp is very different. The secure pinned crimp seen in some military application rounds would work but that brass has a short life. for reloading.

In revolvers you mostly just get a variation of velocity and performance on the last round or two in the cylinder. In tubular magazines the bullet can drop into the case and jam the action. Detachable box magazines prevent this.

  I'm in my 16th year as range master on the current range, previous decades on others. Bullet creep or the additional issue of tubular magazine detonation from pointed bullets are some of the many informative events I've been present to observe at close range. I would suggest a lead flat nose 9mm with a crimp groove for your ammo , that would work with any of the three calibers your post proposed. 

  If the goal is to shoot faster for less expense in reloading,  I think a short 38 case with a gun made or modified to fit that length would be better. You could just trim down .38 special cases. Or spend the money on more practice with your 38 special or .32. None of these are new ideas. 

Having fun is a good enough reason to try stuff that doesn't hurt anyone else. Good luck, I look forward to seeing how it works out.

[El Chapo]

On 5/12/2026 at 12:01 PM, Joe West said:

   New calibers are great for lever gun sales and most factory stuff with flat point bullets should work most of the time in tubular magazines. The problem that arises is the same as the issue with revolvers using auto pistol caliber rounds : bullet jump/creep  due to the lack of a secure crimp. Auto pistol rounds headspace on the case mouth so the crimp is very different. The secure pinned crimp seen in some military application rounds would work but that brass has a short life. for reloading.

In revolvers you mostly just get a variation of velocity and performance on the last round or two in the cylinder. In tubular magazines the bullet can drop into the case and jam the action. Detachable box magazines prevent this.

  I'm in my 16th year as range master on the current range, previous decades on others. Bullet creep or the additional issue of tubular magazine detonation from pointed bullets are some of the many informative events I've been present to observe at close range. I would suggest a lead flat nose 9mm with a crimp groove for your ammo , that would work with any of the three calibers your post proposed. 

  If the goal is to shoot faster for less expense in reloading,  I think a short 38 case with a gun made or modified to fit that length would be better. You could just trim down .38 special cases. Or spend the money on more practice with your 38 special or .32. None of these are new ideas. 

Having fun is a good enough reason to try stuff that doesn't hurt anyone else. Good luck, I look forward to seeing how it works out.

 

9mm Luger is a tapered case, I don't really think that's a concern, especially not at the low power factors we shoot, but I look forward to trying someday.

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

As one who hosts IDPA and USPSA matches I can tell you that people who pick up range brass absolutely HATE it  when someone shows up with a 38 super. Separating the cases can only be done by hand unless you have a 1K+  machine and it isn't easy. You will make NO friends if you build a gun for 38super.

[El Chapo]

3 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

As one who hosts IDPA and USPSA matches I can tell you that people who pick up range brass absolutely HATE it  when someone shows up with a 38 super. Separating the cases can only be done by hand unless you have a 1K+  machine and it isn't easy. You will make NO friends if you build a gun for 38super.

 

All the winners in the Open Division are shooting 38 Super or a variant of it.  I haven't ever seen someone shooting a 38 Super at any IDPA match.

[Griff]

Add in a 16 ga shotgun, just to be different! 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

22 minutes ago, Griff said:

Add in a 16 ga shotgun, just to be different! 

 

Like this?

 

[Griff]

23 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Like this?

 

Sure!

[DeaconKC]

Pietta built a SAA called the King Trio a couple years ago that had cylinders for .357/.38, 9mm and .38 Super. The gun itself was stamped .38 Super so it could be sold in countries that did not allow military cartridges. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

10 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

The gun itself was stamped .38 Super so it could be sold in countries that did not allow military cartridges. 

That's...  Bizarre.

I have never understood the "no military calibers" rule, and this illustrates why.   .38 Super is more powerful than either 9mm or .38 Special.

As to if it is stronger than .357 Magnum. I guess it depends on the loading, but in general it's not.   And as far as I know .357 is not military either, and it's far more powerful than some cartridges that are.

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

21 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

As one who hosts IDPA and USPSA matches I can tell you that people who pick up range brass absolutely HATE it  when someone shows up with a 38 super. Separating the cases can only be done by hand unless you have a 1K+  machine and it isn't easy. You will make NO friends if you build a gun for 38super.

In the winter I shoot with a guy who shoots 38 super comp. Different cases than 38 super. Told me the cases are almost 20 cents each. 

Range brass pickers might make some cash.

[Vail Vigilante]

38 Super was the thing to have years ago in USPSA. Rule changes and availability of 40 SW slowed its use.

I was at a match last weekend and we had TWO shooters with anything that could let them be scored as Major.

9mm is the top of the heap in handguns and PCCs for the combat games.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 5/15/2026 at 4:37 PM, Vail Vigilante said:

9mm is the top of the heap in handguns and PCCs for the combat games.

 

If I ever do one of those, I'll probably raise a few eyebrows by showing up with a 1911 and a Thompson.