EOT, back in the day.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

On 4/4/2026 at 1:32 PM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

And the Chronicle was twice the size in length and width and four times as thick.

And there were only a few categories far way less then than what we have now.  

[Max Montana, SASS #23907]

I have no idea the last time I was on the Wire.  Saw this thread with a lot of the hombres I shot with "back in that day" ya'll are talking about.  Just had to say "Howdy" to one and all.   Still stunned with the news of Black Jack Zak. See ya on the trail!

[Constable Nelson #11784]

When reminiscing about the good old days, remember the other side too. My first EOT  I seem to recall we had to knock down two shotgun targets while sitting on a wagon... then USE the "REINS" to reset them, then shoot them AGAIN.  And they were NOT light. 🤣

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

28 minutes ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

When reminiscing about the good old days, remember the other side too. My first EOT  I seem to recall we had to knock down two shotgun targets while sitting on a wagon... then USE the "REINS" to reset them, then shoot them AGAIN.  And they were NOT light. 🤣

Just curious what year that was? My first EOT was 2005 in NM.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

9 hours ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

When reminiscing about the good old days, remember the other side too. My first EOT  I seem to recall we had to knock down two shotgun targets while sitting on a wagon... then USE the "REINS" to reset them, then shoot them AGAIN.  And they were NOT light. 🤣

I remember that stage.  Except we were shooting it at the Western Regional.

[El Sobrante Kid]

10 hours ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

When reminiscing about the good old days, remember the other side too. My first EOT  I seem to recall we had to knock down two shotgun targets while sitting on a wagon... then USE the "REINS" to reset them, then shoot them AGAIN.  And they were NOT light. 🤣

 

My Goodness, how things have changed!

[Constable Nelson #11784]

3 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

 

My Goodness, how things have changed!

I know many of us old guys (My first EOT was 1997 so Im a Medium Old guy I reckon)  complain about the changes.   But you know what? I think the game is better than ever.    I remember shooting matches where the targets were 8" square at 12-15 yards...for PISTOL.   Stuff like that... No thanks.  Thats what IPSC/USPSA is for.  ( I shoot that too)   Give us targets everyone CAN hit..and let skill determine how quickly.   Having said THAT, being Human I have my preferences too. I haven't shot Bordertown and am not interested in doing so.......YMMV/IMO/etc...   LOL

[Constable Nelson #11784]

13 hours ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

Just curious what year that was? My first EOT was 2005 in NM.

It was definitely at Raahagues (sp?)  in CA.  It MAY have been my very FIRST year. 1997.   I was shooting FC with a pair of 7.5" Uberti Cattleman in 44-40... with 200gr bullets on top of 35gr of 2F... Yikes!   I doubt my wrists would manage that these days!

[Griff]

14 minutes ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

It was definitely at Raahagues (sp?)  in CA.  It MAY have been my very FIRST year. 1997.   I was shooting FC with a pair of 7.5" Uberti Cattleman in 44-40... with 200gr bullets on top of 35gr of 2F... Yikes!   I doubt my wrists would manage that these days!

Actually, it would have been at Cota de Caza, as that was my 2nd EOT.  EOT didn't move to Raahauge's until 1992, IIRC.

[Stump Water]

15 hours ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

When reminiscing about the good old days, remember the other side too.

 

EoT 2005 was a bit of a challenge.  If you like wind, rain, sleet and snow all in the same day.

 

 

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

9 hours ago, Stump Water said:

 

EoT 2005 was a bit of a challenge.  If you like wind, rain, sleet and snow all in the same day.

 

 

Yep that was my first EOT and we had all that weather!  Seems the weather that time of year in NM was a BIT different than CA.    The following year the moved it to later in the year.

Edited May 4 by Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L

[Half-a-Hand Henri]

16 hours ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

When reminiscing about the good old days, remember the other side too. My first EOT  I seem to recall we had to knock down two shotgun targets while sitting on a wagon... then USE the "REINS" to reset them, then shoot them AGAIN.  And they were NOT light. 🤣

1999, I think!

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Half-a-Hand Henri said:

1999, I think!

It might have been earlier than that.  LSFSC hosted its first annual shoot in November of '91.  Our stage 3 had the following:

Quote

FOWL PLAY or THEM SURE AIN'T TURKEYS

The shooter starts seated on his horse, with the shotgun at port arms,
handgun in the holster,
At the beep, the shooter engages
the targets in order, right to left; or left to right, reloading only
two rounds at a time. The shooter then empties his last two rounds
and places the shotgun in the scabbard, action open.
The shooter now draws up on the reins, quieting his horse (and
resetting the six knockdowns for the next shooter). Drawing his
handgun, the shooter engages the five steel plates and holsters his
handgun.
10 second penalty for not getting your horse under control (5 seconds
either plate rack that's not reset.)
5 second penalty for each missed target.

10 second penalty for closing the action on your shotgun while putting
it in the scabbard. No penalty for doubles slipping down into the
scabbard land closing themselves, though they must be opened as they're
withdrawn from the scabbard.
30 seconal penalty for quick-drawing, fanning the hammer or any other
unsafe act in the course of drawing the handgun.

Since one of the WB was there... I'll certainly accuse them of stealin' the idea!

 

Here's my son on that stage!

 

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

On 5/3/2026 at 7:14 PM, Stump Water said:

 

EoT 2005 was a bit of a challenge.  If you like wind, rain, sleet and snow all in the same day.

 

 

I believe I recognize two of the men in background.  One being Bob Munden other a vender from Louisiana (wide gray hat band), Klondike. .

Edited May 5 by Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator

[Captain Bill Burt]

Yeah, the good ole days….
 

There are still a few clubs around here that do things the ‘old’ way.  
 

Small, far targets, shooting from awkward positions, non shooting activities done on the clock, shooting progressions that resemble the firing order of a Chevy V8, tricks that have a bigger impact on who wins than skill does.  
 

I think the people who shoot those matches really enjoy them. Kind of like NCOWS, slow, but very proud of themselves for minimizing the competitive aspect.

 

I wouldn’t know, I don’t shoot matches that frown on competitive shooters who want to shoot the stage in the most efficient way the stage instructions allow.

You know, the gamers who ruined things for the purists.

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

My first EOT was 2000, Norco Calif & had the Marlin Jam and still able to make 7th Place Senior.  Had a great time.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Also my first Joe.

[Griff]

6 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Yeah, the good ole days….
 

There are still a few clubs around here that do things the ‘old’ way.  
 

Small, far targets, shooting from awkward positions, non shooting activities done on the clock, shooting progressions that resemble the firing order of a Chevy V8, tricks that have a bigger impact on who wins than skill does.  
 

I think the people who shoot those matches really enjoy them. Kind of like NCOWS, slow, but very proud of themselves for minimizing the competitive aspect.

 

I wouldn’t know, I don’t shoot matches that frown on competitive shooters who want to shoot the stage in the most efficient way the stage instructions allow.

You know, the gamers who ruined things for the purists.

And there's a reason that the clubs that have survived from those days, are still flourishing...   They've adapted to the new ways.  Bigger targets, consistent sweeps between rifles & pistols, no non-shooting activities on the clock.  The stage I posted above was typical of the era... The match consisted of 8 stages, with team events (4) held over a 4-day holiday weekend.  None of the main match stages for that 1st annual required more than 2 guns, which was not uncommon.  And the competitive nature of folks showed thru and were reflected the scores.  I have the scores... somewhere on a 3-½" disc, but can't find the drive to post 'em.  I can't say that any folks complained... I don't think we had folks firing from awkward positions, seated, or prone, atop wooden horses, and sweeps that would be very familiar to today's shooters.  "Tricks?"  Things like throwing a knife, tossin' a lasso, opening a door, starting with your revolver unloaded, gate open, on half-cock?  Sure, but those were fairly commonplace at the time.  They eventually went away, not because folks complained, but because they ate up time, and as more folks came out, time was a factor, plus, in the '93-'94 time frame, using two revolvers became the norm, along with more stages that used all three guns.

 

I don't believe that you can fairly judge those early competitions by today's standards.  The game had changed by the end of its 2nd decade, (2002), as I recall, most of that in the last 7 years.  If someone had shot a typical cowboy match in the mid-80's, then didn't shoot again until the late '90s, they wouldn't have recognized the game, except in its most basic form... sixgun, rifle & shotgun.  The sweeps that are popular today were being invented... yep, different types sweeps were attempted... not all were successful.  Those became known as the dreaded "P" trap.   And you don't see those today.  (Thank goodness)!

 

And absolutely nothing wrong with being a gamer... for I are one!  I freely admit that I'm not a competitive shooter, (I move too slow, I don't practice transitions, and talk too much), but that doesn't stop me from looking for a way to shoot a stage differently if I think it will improve my time.  (Not always successful, but that's neither here nor there).  Call me a purist, PLEASE!  Because a cowboy action match in its purest form should be FUN.  For the fastest shooter, as well as the slowest.  I had fun at my first match at Coto de Caza in 1985, just like I did on this past Saturday here in TX.  I've only shot one match that wasn't fun... as they had the stated intent to "make sure those boys from North Texas don't win!"  

 

"Old school" ain't mean to take the fun outta the game.  Sweeps that make Chinese arithmetic look simple aren't fun.  There're sights on your rifle & handgun for a reason.  If you gotta use 'em to hit targets, it shouldn't be a big deal.  (Occasionally).  Makin' a habit of that can shoo off your customers fastern' a C-Whiz.  But... talent will win, sometimes it takes a mite more control to do it... but... I'm here to tell ya, that the fastest shooter at 20 feet, will still be a comparatively fast shooter @ 20 yards.  Might not be as fast as at 20 feet, but most likely, will be fastern' everyone else!  Paraphrasin' what Phantom used to spout, makin' targets smaller and farther away doesn't hurt the better shooters, it simply hurts the less accomplished more!

 

 

 

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

On 5/4/2026 at 12:02 AM, Griff said:

It might have been earlier than that.  LSFSC hosted its first annual shoot in November of '91.  Our stage 3 had the following:

Since one of the WB was there... I'll certainly accuse them of stealin' the idea!

 

Here's my son on that stage!

 

Is that Colt Laws timing?

[Griff]

15 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

Is that Colt Laws timing?

Yep.

[Captain Bill Burt]

On 4/7/2026 at 9:05 AM, T-Square said:

So where did all the festival go?  Why did the rule book get so cumbersome?  Can we bring back the fun and the people?

Hmm. 

 

The festival is still here. 

 

Because the rule book is written by committee? 

 

The fun is still here, a lot of the people are dead and not coming back. 

 

If the problem is the gamers, they could be run off and then theoretically it will be good times to infinity.  If the problem is cultural changes away from the westerns many of us grew up on then running off those darned gamers isn't the answer.

On 4/7/2026 at 3:16 PM, El Sobrante Kid said:

Just a guess, but as the game became better known the number of participants went up, as the number of participants went up the manufacturers and distributors saw an opportunity to sell merchandise, and so the snowball started rolling. Here we are decades later and the snowball has pretty much slowed to a crawl. The flood of new shooters looking for all their gear has slowed to a steady trickle, and much of that need is likely filled by used equipment. The number of suppliers has probably consolidated.

 

And as with any new venture that strikes the public's fancy, in the early days there is a huge amount of energy, excitement, and personal effort to join in the merriment and contribute in some way (think of all the small vendors making and providing all the little bits of gear that everyone had to have). Being able to be a part of the growing "Team" and the camaraderie was a part of the fun of it all.

Add to that the slow but inevitable process of all the additional rules. For every loophole that could be found there was someone to push the limits of Good Sportsmanship under the guise of "Show me the rule that says I can't...). And when something became an issue new rules were passed to "make things better" until we are where we are today. We are now a (fairly) well regulated Sport. The days of CAS being a fun dress-up game with guns is long gone.

 

Many of the enjoyable aspects of CAS are still there, but more as bits and pieces of what has been, and certainly to a much smaller degree than in the past.

That's clearly a matter of opinion.  I happen to enjoy the game the way it is.  What's stopping you from hosting throwback matches?  I would love to 'see' (not compete in) a major match run exactly the way matches were run in the 'good old days'. 

On 4/14/2026 at 5:29 AM, Texas Jack Black said:

 HUMANS sell their souls and this sometimes happens. 

LOL.  Yeah, those damn humans, ruining the game.

On 4/15/2026 at 1:42 PM, El Sobrante Kid said:

 

It seems that 90% of the rules are meant to restrict the 10% of the people that willingly ignore the spirit of "Good Sportsmanship", in pursuit of "Win, Whatever it Takes".

You need to find a better group of cowboys to shoot with if 10% of yours willingly ignore good sportsmanship.

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I would love to 'see' (not compete in) a major match run exactly the way matches were run in the 'good old days'. 

I happen to think that, sans the stuff that was found to NOT work, you'd laugh and giggle your way thru a 'old school' match.  One that comes to mind is sitting in a "half-railway car" with 5-6 of your team mates try to knock over 30 or so KDs while the "car" rocked back 'n forth on lightweight springs from recoil and your teammates shifting around trying to get sight lines on missed targets!  Picking up & rolling a die, then starting your sweep on the target matching the number on your die...  sitting in a bone-fide barber's chair with a barber's cape over you, & at the beep throwing it off, raising your sixgun and blazing away at the targets across from you at 10'... rolling off a bed onto your knees and taking out 9 or 10  18" tall Harper cowboys at ~20 yards.  Taking aim while seated on a wooden horse (about 12 hands tall), with the rifle at those same Harpers between 20 & 30 yards distant, then clambering off after jamming your rifle into the scabbard, and running over to a low fence drawing your sixgun and blasting away @ variously shaped targets @ 7 to 10 yards, then dashing thru the swinging gates to pick up your shotgun and finishing off the 4 desperados stationed there.    Okay... okay... it gets less fun the further past 50 your chronological clock tells you that you are.  But... at 75 I can assure you that I look back at my 40 year old self and remember the goodness that an 'old school' match was.

[Eyesa Horg]

8 minutes ago, Griff said:

I happen to think that, sans the stuff that was found to NOT work, you'd laugh and giggle your way thru a 'old school' match.  One that comes to mind is sitting in a "half-railway car" with 5-6 of your team mates try to knock over 30 or so KDs while the "car" rocked back 'n forth on lightweight springs from recoil and your teammates shifting around trying to get sight lines on missed targets!  Picking up & rolling a die, then starting your sweep on the target matching the number on your die...  sitting in a bone-fide barber's chair with a barber's cape over you, & at the beep throwing it off, raising your sixgun and blazing away at the targets across from you at 10'... rolling off a bed onto your knees and taking out 9 or 10  18" tall Harper cowboys at ~20 yards.  Taking aim while seated on a wooden horse (about 12 hands tall), with the rifle at those same Harpers between 20 & 30 yards distant, then clambering off after jamming your rifle into the scabbard, and running over to a low fence drawing your sixgun and blasting away @ variously shaped targets @ 7 to 10 yards, then dashing thru the swinging gates to pick up your shotgun and finishing off the 4 desperados stationed there.    Okay... okay... it gets less fun the further past 50 your chronological clock tells you that you are.  But... at 75 I can assure you that I look back at my 40 year old self and remember the goodness that an 'old school' match was.

The fine folks in Maine, Des & Tyler held a match like that last fall! It was a hoot! Complete with shaving cream at the barber chair!

[T-Square]

I’ll ride for both brands, partner—new school and old school alike. I’m here for the holy thunder of black powder, the rolling smoke, and the tongue of flame licking outta the muzzle. This game’s got fine folks on both sides of the schoolhouse, and I tip my hat to every last one of ’em.

 

I chase my own times like a hound on a hot trail, sure—and I won’t lie, I relish a win when it comes my way—but victory ain’t the only gold in them hills. The real treasure’s in the show: watchin’ top hands like Capt. Bill Burt work a stage is worth the price of powder alone. The man’s a locomotive most days—slick, sharp, and smokin’ fast—but I’ll confess, even a legend’s derailment now and again is mighty entertainin’!

 

Truth is, I love the whole shootin’ match. If I’ve got one burr under my saddle, it’s them sneaky P-Traps. Don’t be layin’ ambush for us poor souls who can’t count past our boots or tell left from right without a compass!

 

So let’s keep it the way it oughta be: fill the air with fire and brimstone, let that steel ring out like a choir of angels, and spin tall tales ’round the campfire till the stars fade. That’s the spirit of it, and I’m all in.

[Texas Jack Black]

   So what is the active membership now ?   

[El Sobrante Kid]

2 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

   So what is the active membership now ?   

 

When you say "active", how many shoots does someone have to attend to be "active"? Do monthlies count, or only the officially sanctioned SASS events? In the case of the former, I would think that SASS has no idea. In the case of the latter, I'm sure that SASS has a pretty exact count of participants.

 

ETA- or do you simply mean how many people have a paid up and active SASS membership?

Edited May 6 by El Sobrante Kid

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

There is no such thing as "active" or "inactive" membership.  Either you have paid your dues and are a member.  Or if you have not paid your dues you are not a member.  The number of "members" is a secret guarded by SASS more closely than the formula for Coke is guarded by Coke.

[Texas Jack Black]

22 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

 

When you say "active", how many shoots does someone have to attend to be "active"? Do monthlies count, or only the officially sanctioned SASS events? In the case of the former, I would think that SASS has no idea. In the case of the latter, I'm sure that SASS has a pretty exact count of participants.

 

ETA- or do you simply mean how many people have a paid up and active SASS membership?

  Let us say paying membership  I say active due to some signing up their newborn children and many sponsors are paying non shooters.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

In case nobody's said it, thank you for posting these images, Doug.  There's nothing wrong with remembering what was.  It must have been great back then.  Much appreciated!. 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

On 5/6/2026 at 12:45 PM, Griff said:

I happen to think that, sans the stuff that was found to NOT work, you'd laugh and giggle your way thru a 'old school' match.  One that comes to mind is sitting in a "half-railway car" with 5-6 of your team mates try to knock over 30 or so KDs while the "car" rocked back 'n forth on lightweight springs from recoil and your teammates shifting around trying to get sight lines on missed targets!  Picking up & rolling a die, then starting your sweep on the target matching the number on your die...  sitting in a bone-fide barber's chair with a barber's cape over you, & at the beep throwing it off, raising your sixgun and blazing away at the targets across from you at 10'... rolling off a bed onto your knees and taking out 9 or 10  18" tall Harper cowboys at ~20 yards.  Taking aim while seated on a wooden horse (about 12 hands tall), with the rifle at those same Harpers between 20 & 30 yards distant, then clambering off after jamming your rifle into the scabbard, and running over to a low fence drawing your sixgun and blasting away @ variously shaped targets @ 7 to 10 yards, then dashing thru the swinging gates to pick up your shotgun and finishing off the 4 desperados stationed there.    Okay... okay... it gets less fun the further past 50 your chronological clock tells you that you are.  But... at 75 I can assure you that I look back at my 40 year old self and remember the goodness that an 'old school' match was.

I came a little late, but saw some of that.
A lot of experimenting for maximum fun. And we gradually learned.  Only a few stages where you shot all 4 guns. And that was "recent" because many only had one pistol.  And rifles often help 9 or less. A lot of times the good shooter that had guns work though the match were the winners.  One of the things you would think of to prepare was how to fix various "failures" not shucking shotgun shells.  doing a quick reload of your pistol or rifle.

Shooting from a "horse" was pretty common.  I could get on just fine, but sometimes it took a team to get me off the horse after the stage. And I was "young!"

I remember at LSFSC when we first tried shooting a stage under a wagon. 
Pistols were fine, but you know that lever thing on the bottom of the rifle?  What do you do with that?!

 

Then in an East Texas match, you shoot 5 or 6 rounds with the rifle before you were shot with an arrow (put it under your arm) then finished up?  That didn't last long.

 

Then an idiot thought lets do something fun. 
At the start of your stage, you threw your ammo into a feed trough.  I know it shotgun and either rifle or pistol, likely not both. 

When I got to that stage, 2 1/2 posses were in front of me.  After about 2 hours I left because I had almost a 2 hour drive to get home.

But it was usually still great fun, and depending on the club good "fraternization."

 

So we learned a LOT.  And the best match directors worked to maximize the fun for all.

 

 

[Texas Jack Black]

On 5/6/2026 at 7:32 PM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

There is no such thing as "active" or "inactive" membership.  Either you have paid your dues and are a member.  Or if you have not paid your dues you are not a member.  The number of "members" is a secret guarded by SASS more closely than the formula for Coke is guarded by Coke.

 Actually, there is a big difference between active and inactive.  

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

25 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

Actually, there is a big difference between active and inactive.  

 

That's baloney.  You are either a member or you are not a member.  Whether you chose to participate is a differnt matter.

[El Sobrante Kid]

Just now, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

That's baloney.  You are either a member or you are not a member.  Whether you chose to participate is a differnt matter.

 

I usually look forward to your posts and I almost always learn something, but this is splitting hairs. You can be a paid member who is active, or a paid member who is not active (not shooting matches). There are a number of people on the Wire who have said they have a paid membership (to support SASS) but have no intention of shooting a match. The difference between those two numbers is a good indicator of how many people are actively participating in SASS matches vs. those who are supporting the SASS brand.

[Texas Jack Black]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

That's baloney.  You are either a member or you are not a member.  Whether you chose to participate is a differnt matter.

 Oh! give me a break you know what Active or Inactive means.

Have a great day 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I honestly do not know what you mean by it.

Edited Sunday at 02:09 PM by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933