Chantry Posted March 11 Posted March 11 (edited) About 2 years ago I got a new central air conditioner with a heat pump. It's worked pretty well and kept the bills down and the temperature comfortable until the very cold temperatures those of in the northeast (and elsewhere) dealt with this winter. Fortunately I still had the original baseboard heat from when the condo was built in 1972 to keep me warm. My question is do I spend about $5,000 upgrading the central air with a heat unit or save the money and rely on the baseboard? How much would the heater unit save me? Oil and Natural Gas are not options Edited March 11 by Chantry Quote
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 37 minutes ago, Chantry said: About 2 years ago I got a new central air conditioner with a heat pump. It's worked pretty well and kept the bills down and the temperature comfortable until the very cold temperatures those of in the northeast (and elsewhere) dealt with this winter. Fortunately I still had the original baseboard heat from when the condo was built in 1972 to keep me warm. My question is do I spend about $5,000 upgrading the central air with a heat unit or save the money and rely on the baseboard? How much would the heater unit save me? Oil and Natural Gas are not options I would rely on the baseboard heat if it did its job. That cold spell we had was a once in a decade occurrence at least here in Ohio it was. My son in Nashville even had some real cold temps! I’m curious, why isn’t Natural gas or oil an option? Quote
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I’m curious, why isn’t Natural gas or oil an option? If his system is like mine, it's an all electric system. He'd have to run new lines etc. to use gas or oil. Now my system has "Emergency Heat" for if the Heat Pump can't keep up. It's like an internal space heater. I haven't had to use it, (I don't think that we even got to freezing this Winter), but when the system was being installed, during testing they got WARM. I don't know if it's something that Chantry could add to his system though. Edited March 11 by Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Quote
Rip Snorter Posted March 11 Posted March 11 When we built the house, we put in a state of the art geothermal forced air. Works well nearly all of the time, no saving I can see, though supposedly greenish. On occasion it breaks down. Usually it can be reset or repaired quickly, once in a while not. I have a couple of large electric heaters, and since we have a generator, they are reliable backup. If your current system mostly works, and electricity is usually available, one of these at $230 (the number that sticks in my mind) might be all you need, particularly is your place isn't large. Frustrating vulnerability! Quote
Stump Water Posted March 11 Posted March 11 Since the heat unit or heat strips or however this emergency heat works is going to be electric I don't think you're going get your $5000 back in 10 years. Since the baseboard heaters are 54 years old I would replace them. It's DIY and going to cost a lot less than $5000. Or ceramic or oil-filled space heaters. 1 Quote
Chantry Posted March 11 Author Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I would rely on the baseboard heat if it did its job. That cold spell we had was a once in a decade occurrence at least here in Ohio it was. My son in Nashville even had some real cold temps! I’m curious, why isn’t Natural gas or oil an option? Condo association, everything is electric. There are no gas lines underground and installing oil would almost certainly be VERY expensive and I doubt the condo association would approve it. 1 hour ago, Stump Water said: Since the heat unit or heat strips or however this emergency heat works is going to be electric I don't think you're going get your $5000 back in 10 years. Since the baseboard heaters are 54 years old I would replace them. It's DIY and going to cost a lot less than $5000. Or ceramic or oil-filled space heaters. If it's not broke I'm not going to touch it. Besides moving everything to get to the base boards would be a giant PIA 1 Quote
Stump Water Posted March 11 Posted March 11 26 minutes ago, Chantry said: If it's not broke I'm not going to touch it. Besides moving everything to get to the base boards would be a giant PIA Sounds like the oil filled "radiator" style is for you. It's what I use in the reloading room which is in an un-air-conditioned part of the basement. Quote
El Sobrante Kid Posted March 11 Posted March 11 Heat pumps are notoriously bad at providing heat when the outside temps are just around freezing or below. They make that up with electric heaters built into the units. So ultimately you are using an electric heater if your outdoor temps fall below freezing. Electric heating can be very expensive. Newer models of heat pumps are supposed to be much more efficient at heating when the outdoor temps are very low, but it is a question for the vendor, "What is the efficiency of this unit at low temps, please show me a chart". GL! Quote
Rip Snorter Posted March 11 Posted March 11 Expensive is irrelevant in the context of residents being harmed by cold or potential damage from the house freezing. Quote
Chantry Posted March 11 Author Posted March 11 1 hour ago, El Sobrante Kid said: Heat pumps are notoriously bad at providing heat when the outside temps are just around freezing or below. They make that up with electric heaters built into the units. So ultimately you are using an electric heater if your outdoor temps fall below freezing. Electric heating can be very expensive. Newer models of heat pumps are supposed to be much more efficient at heating when the outdoor temps are very low, but it is a question for the vendor, "What is the efficiency of this unit at low temps, please show me a chart". GL! An electric heater with the unit installed never came up when I bought the new air conditioner system w/heat pump. This being my first home and first time replacing the AC, it never occurred to me that there was no heat with it. The heat pump worked fine the winter of 2024/2025. Quote
Chantry Posted March 11 Author Posted March 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said: Expensive is irrelevant in the context of residents being harmed by cold or potential damage from the house freezing. That never even came close to being an issue during this winter. The existing base board was more than enough to keep me warm. I just didn't like the electric bill that came with it. With the past winter being an outlier for CT, that the heater upgrade is unlikely to reduce my electric bill drastically and that'll take 10+ years to MAYBE break even, it seems wiser to pass and that $5000 could be put to to other uses. Edited March 11 by Chantry 1 Quote
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 (edited) Regardless of what system you use to heat/cool your house, extreme cold or heat, your costs will be negatively affected. Most regular heat pumps are effective in temperatures no lower than 17 degrees. Many units sold in regions with colder seasonal temperatures have an “emergency” heating element/system built in. If your vendor didn’t explain that to you, he/she was just interested in making a sale! Even if your unit DID have the low temp heat circuit, it wouldn’t save you much, if anything, during the extreme cold weather! Your baseboard heaters should be just fine for short term use when the temperature gets below the heat pump’s heating capabilities. It WOULD be wise to have a licensed electrician check them! Our place uses split units that are heat pump design and we have a couple of good little electric space heaters for extreme cold! Proper placement and judicious use gave us a lower electric bill than for the same month last year and we were comfortable, even during the two week plus cold wave! Edited March 11 by Blackwater 53393 Quote
Old Man Graybeard Posted March 12 Posted March 12 I live in northern Iowa...it does get 20 to 25 below without the windchill. Our house was built with a heat pump with electric backup. If the heat pump couldn't keep up...the backup would kick in to help out. Never had trouble keeping the house warm. A few years ago the compressor went bad. We had a choice to replace the compressor...and that gets to be a lot longer story. We ended up putting in a whole new system...still the heat pump...but with propane backup heat. This one automatically switches to gas at 20 degrees. I can switch it to gas manually also. So far...the last several years...we have not had any trouble keeping warm in winter or cool in summer...and it can get 100 degrees with high humidity in summer Quote
Rip Snorter Posted March 12 Posted March 12 -40° is the worst we have had, though several times over the years. Backups are essential for my peace of mind. 1 Quote
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