A Question About Duplex Loads

[Blackwater 53393]

This one’s for PaleWolf if he’s willing!

 

Can I legally load my Black Powder cartridges with five grains of real FFFFg and then fill the cases the rest of the way with real FFg or FFFg for SASS competition??

 

Is this still considered a duplex load?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

33 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

This one’s for PaleWolf if he’s willing!

 

Can I legally load my Black Powder cartridges with five grains of real FFFFg and then fill the cases the rest of the way with real FFg or FFFg for SASS competition??

 

Is this still considered a duplex load?

 

No..."duplex load" (for SASS purposes) is defined on SHB p.28:

Quote

Any combination of smokeless and blackpowder (so called duplex loads) is specifically 
prohibited in ANY category.  (e.g., Blackhorn 209).

 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Have you done some testing of this that has proved there is a benefit?

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

That's a  black powder with black powder loading.

 

A true duplex loading is Smokeless powder with black powder.

This is Not allowed in SASS .

 

Although if done properly. 

Its very clean & safe to do. 

 

You just can not do it in SASS.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:03 AM by Rooster Ron Wayne

[Kid Rich]

7 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

This one’s for PaleWolf if he’s willing!

 

Can I legally load my Black Powder cartridges with five grains of real FFFFg and then fill the cases the rest of the way with real FFg or FFFg for SASS competition??

 

Is this still considered a duplex load?

It is the original duplex load, used awhile before smokiless was invented.

kR

[Blackwater 53393]

So, this is NOT a duplex load by SASS rules and therefore is LEGAL?

 

 

Gator! It’s supposed to burn much cleaner and leave less fouling.

Edited Tuesday at 12:25 PM by Blackwater 53393

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

43 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

So, this is NOT a duplex load by SASS rules and therefore is LEGAL?

 

 

Gator! It’s supposed to burn much cleaner and leave less fouling.

Why not just use all 3F in the case?

[Lucky R. K.]

I have used the black powder duplex load described by Blackwater many times when I competed in long range shooting. The intent was to eliminate the time-consuming bore cleaning between shots. I loaded 10% 4F and 90% 2F or 3F. the round shot almost as clean as smokeless. Wish I could still do it.

Lucky 😁

[Blackwater 53393]

I’d like a little more input on this!  As I’m reading PaleWolf’s reply, it appears that what I described is legal!

 

I’m going to load a couple stages worth of cartridges and test them, away from SASS competition, to see if anything of any value can be gained!

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I’d like a little more input on this!  As I’m reading PaleWolf’s reply, it appears that what I described is legal!

 

I’m going to load a couple stages worth of cartridges and test them, away from SASS competition, to see if anything of any value can be gained!

 

 

Load the case with 3F. You'll have plenty of smoke.

[Blackwater 53393]

1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Load the case with 3F. You'll have plenty of smoke.

I already HAVE  plenty of smoke!!  I’m looking for a combination that shoots cleaner and fouls less!  
 

I already shoot thirty-seven to forty grains of FFFg in my regular load for cartridge guns. In a six stage day, I will pull the cylinders and wipe them down twice if I’m really trying to compete! I also spray my rifle action down with Ballistol and blow it out with canned air at least once as well!

 

If I can shoot that same six stages without the extra effort during the match, I can concentrate more on my game.

 

This particular load combination is purported to shoot nearly as CLEAN  as smokeless loads! Less fouling! Less unburned powder!  
 

If I can get all the fun of real Black Powder using REAL BLACK POWDER  with less work between stages, it’s not that big of a deal to load my big match ammo this way!

 

I might even set up a second powder flask for my cap guns!! 😜

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:09 AM by Blackwater 53393

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

If you have the correct bullets that carry enough BP lube you should be able to shoot a days worth of stages loading just ffg or fffg powder with no maintenance between stages.

[Blackwater 53393]

That’s one of the things that I want to experiment with.  My bullets have ample capacity for lube. I clean up every couple of stages to maintain optimum performance.  
 

Again! If this shoots as clean as some have reported, it’ll let me use more readily available bullets and less lube.  One shooter reported using powder coated bullets without lube and another said that he used a smokeless bullet with Molly lube.  These are options that are worth exploring.

 

[Blackwater 53393]

13 hours ago, Lucky R. K. said:

I have used the black powder duplex load described by Blackwater many times when I competed in long range shooting. The intent was to eliminate the time-consuming bore cleaning between shots. I loaded 10% 4F and 90% 2F or 3F. the round shot almost as clean as smokeless. Wish I could still do it.

Lucky 😁

Hey, Pard!

I was wondering how this load was with respect to recoil and actual smoke production.

 

Could you detect any real difference??

[Sedalia Dave]

@Blackwater 53393 What brand of BP are you currently using? 

 

I've found that Goex is dirtier than Graf & Sons (Schutzen) so I save the Goex for shotgun shells.

[Blackwater 53393]

I have Swiss, Schutzen, Graff’s, (which is actually Schutzen relabeled) and Goex, as well as some bulk powder that was unbranded but has proven to work well.

 

I’m planning on using Goex for this experiment because it’s usually the least clean shooting powder that I have.

[Kid Rich]

13 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I’d like a little more input on this!  As I’m reading PaleWolf’s reply, it appears that what I described is legal!

 

I’m going to load a couple stages worth of cartridges and test them, away from SASS competition, to see if anything of any value can be gained!

 

 

It is legal and you don't need 10%, but it does help with faster ignition of what ever powder you are using and should burn cleaner.

 Also if you are using a dirty powder, sock it like the old timers used to do.

kR

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

9 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I already HAVE  plenty of smoke!!  I’m looking for a combination that shoots cleaner and fouls less!  
 

I already shoot thirty-seven to forty grains of FFFg in my regular load for cartridge guns. In a six stage day, I will pull the cylinders and wipe them down twice if I’m really trying to compete! I also spray my rifle action down with Ballistol and blow it out with canned air at least once as well!

 

If I can shoot that same six stages without the extra effort during the match, I can concentrate more on my game.

 

This particular load combination is purported to shoot nearly as CLEAN  as smokeless loads! Less fouling! Less unburned powder!  
 

If I can get all the fun of real Black Powder using REAL BLACK POWDER  with less work between stages, it’s not that big of a deal to load my big match ammo this way!

 

I might even set up a second powder flask for my cap guns!! 😜

 

 

 

 

3F burns cleaner than 2F. But, not buy much.

In reality, mixing the granulations is more trouble than any hoped for benefit. 

[Lucky R. K.]

10 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Hey, Pard!

I was wondering how this load was with respect to recoil and actual smoke production.

 

Could you detect any real difference??

It's been a long time, but I don't remember any more recoil. As far as smoke goes as I recall, it looked like a black powder round going off. When the weather warms up, I think I might play around with it. I will report back if I do.

Lucky 😁

Edited Wednesday at 02:19 PM by Lucky R. K.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

12 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

If you have the correct bullets that carry enough BP lube you should be able to shoot a days worth of stages loading just ffg or fffg powder with no maintenance between stages.

+++111,  My bullets don't carry enough lube so I use grease cookies and I can go through 6 stages without cleaning in between.  I use 2F real BP for all my loadings.

[Cemetery]

I tried this years back.  With GOEX ... 5 grains 4f, 20 grains 2f or 10 grains 4f and 15 grains 2f in my Old Army's with a .457 RB and didn't notice anything different.  No fouling change, or recoil change.