Black powder compression

[Make do]

Basically, how much can you safely compress true black powder (vs. APP etc.). Is it safe to fill the case with black powder and seat the bullet (pistol cases). I want to use black powder in 32 mag and was just thinking to just fill the case and seat the bullet. It sticks in my mind that I have heard it being done that way in the past. It looks like the powder would be compressed about .4 inches.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

It might deform the bottom of your bullet. Better to use a compression die. I heavily compressed some 44-40 loads for my daughter, as she wanted to make more smoke, but all it did was increase recoil and noise, but less smoke. 

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

If loading real BP, you just need to leave some space for the bullet base to compress the powder about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch.  If fully filling the 32 mag. case to the case mouth may bulge your brass after the bullet is seated and crimped.  If loading substitute like APP, very light compression to no air space is needed between the powder and bullet base.  Hope this help, be safe and good luck.

Edited March 2 by I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

1 hour ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

It might deform the bottom of your bullet. Better to use a compression die. I heavily compressed some 44-40 loads for my daughter, as she wanted to make more smoke, but all it did was increase recoil and noise, but less smoke. 

If she wants more smoke, it's a good idea to use APP as this is the characteristic of this substitute.  More real BP will produce more recoil and more flame, especially on large pistol cases such as 44-40, but the flame and boom is awesome.😎

[El Chapo]

I doubt you would damage a (modern) gun with any amount of black powder that fits in a pistol case.  I know I have filled mine almost to the brim and they work just fine.  The only way I could get to a load that was truly "compressed" would be the smash the powder in there with something and fill it again.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

What granulation and brand of BP are you using? 

For .32 you want 1/16-3/32" compression. 

Firm roll-crimp. 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Both APP and genuine black powder will meet the smoke standard with no compression.  With APP the ammo obviously meets the smoke standard.

[Snakebite Dust SASS 75484]

I would not completely fill the case with BP

I would fill to 1/8-3/16 of an inch and compress

 

Mainly depends on how deep you seat your bullet.

[Eyesa Horg]

I go for 1/8" to 3/16" compression.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

31 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I go for 1/8" to 3/16" compression.

That's allot for a .32 caliber case. 

[Make do]

Using 3f from Graf and sons - 90 RCBS cowboy mold.  

[Eyesa Horg]

35 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

That's allot for a .32 caliber case. 

I should have added that I'm loading 45 colt and 45-70.

[Sedalia Dave]

10 hours ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

It might deform the bottom of your bullet. Better to use a compression die. I heavily compressed some 44-40 loads for my daughter, as she wanted to make more smoke, but all it did was increase recoil and noise, but less smoke. 

 

Switch to 1F or 1.5F real BP and only lightly compress the load.  There'll be more smoke because the larger grains will still be burning when they exit the barrel.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

APP should Not be compressed per APP.

I usually load APP to the bottom of the bullet seated in place .

Plenty of smoke lol really 🤣😂🤣

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Sedalia: That's what I ended up doing. Lots of sparks, with less recoil, especially from the pistols, even on bright sunshiny days! Saved on powder too, so win-win.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I have never been able to figure out why people want to take 2F or 3F black powder and compress it down to zero F.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Maybe for hunting, to get more power/velocity for a flatter trajectory. A more complete burn also? 

[Make do]

On 3/3/2026 at 9:09 AM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

I have never been able to figure out why people want to take 2F or 3F black powder and compress it down to zero F.

Does compression change the size of the particles or change the space between the particles?

[Kid Rich]

On 3/2/2026 at 6:33 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Switch to 1F or 1.5F real BP and only lightly compress the load.  There'll be more smoke because the larger grains will still be burning when they exit the barrel.

Really?

kR

[German Jim]

I use Re-enactor BP.  Plenty of smoke, flame and noise.  No fillers and it's cheaper.

[Griff]

On 3/2/2026 at 8:43 AM, Make do said:

Basically, how much can you safely compress true black powder (vs. APP etc.). Is it safe to fill the case with black powder and seat the bullet (pistol cases). I want to use black powder in 32 mag and was just thinking to just fill the case and seat the bullet. It sticks in my mind that I have heard it being done that way in the past. It looks like the powder would be compressed about .4 inches.

What are you going to be doin' with .32 Mag that you want that much compression?  The compression is only there so that as your ammo is jostled, the powder doesn't settle and form an air gap.  For shootin' cowboy matches, you certainly don't need any more compression that's been advised above.  I shoot .36 caliber 1851s, and only load 13-14 grains of 3F.  Plenty of flame & smoke.  The last time I shot them at a paper target, (1986), I did a 25 yard 25 shot group.  Basically, the entire 10 ring was obliterated.  The last time I shot at CAC, on the chicken stage (24 chickens of varying sizes), I knew that I'd get called for misses if there wasn't proof on the target that they'd been hit... so, I shot at the head of each chicken... no one else does that.  I still got called for a miss, although where there'd been no marks before I shot, and all the heads had one lead smear after.  But, what do you expect when you have baseball umpires masquerading as cowboy spotters?

[Make do]

11 hours ago, Griff said:

What are you going to be doin' with .32 Mag that you want that much compression?  The compression is only there so that as your ammo is jostled, the powder doesn't settle and form an air gap.  For shootin' cowboy matches, you certainly don't need any more compression that's been advised above.  I shoot .36 caliber 1851s, and only load 13-14 grains of 3F.  Plenty of flame & smoke.  The last time I shot them at a paper target, (1986), I did a 25 yard 25 shot group.  Basically, the entire 10 ring was obliterated.  The last time I shot at CAC, on the chicken stage (24 chickens of varying sizes), I knew that I'd get called for misses if there wasn't proof on the target that they'd been hit... so, I shot at the head of each chicken... no one else does that.  I still got called for a miss, although where there'd been no marks before I shot, and all the heads had one lead smear after.  But, what do you expect when you have baseball umpires masquerading as cowboy spotters?

Trying to reach the 1cc of real black powder in a case - the 32 magnum will hold 1cc with about 1/8-inch left. I have been using APP and that gives plenty of smoke, but I thought I would try real black powder for a change and needed to know- if I can compress it without bulging the case or bullet, would it be safe. 

[Griff]

I'll deny I ever said it, but... just fill the case to the bottom of the bullet and see how much smoke is produced.  The rule reads:

Quote

To ensure this, all shotgun, revolver, and rifle powder charges must produce smoke at least equivalent to a baseline load of 15 grains by volume (1 cc) of blackpowder (see Blackpowder – Testing section for additional requirements).

I place the emphasis on 5 words:  "...smoke at least equivalent to..."  I'd shoot your load, then compare the smoke produced to a .38Spl with 15 grains of BP.  I strongly suspect there'll be little to no difference. 

[Diamond Jake]

On 3/12/2026 at 11:50 AM, Griff said:

... just fill the case to the bottom of the bullet and see how much smoke is produced... 

 

I did a test once at a monthly shoot.  I loaded some 38 spcl with 1cc of Goex, and some of a different charge of a BP substitute.  On one of the stages, I used the Goex load in one revolver and the substitute in the other.  Before shooting, I asked the TO and the spotters to pay attention to the smoke, and tell me which revolver smoked more.  I didn't tell them which load was which.  All three agreed the Goex smoked more, so I knew I had to load more of that particular substitute to meet minimum smoke level.

 

I think that's much more accurate than simply shooting them and deciding myself.

[Griff]

I agree.  

[Longfoot]

On 3/3/2026 at 3:43 AM, Make do said:

Basically, how much can you safely compress true black powder (vs. APP etc.). Is it safe to fill the case with black powder and seat the bullet (pistol cases). I want to use black powder in 32 mag and was just thinking to just fill the case and seat the bullet. It sticks in my mind that I have heard it being done that way in the past. It looks like the powder would be compressed about .4 inches.

Sorry, I haven't read all the responses to date.  So forgive me the fact that others have probably already shared something similar to this.

 

I was just loading .32 H&R for my cowgirl last week and working up her first BP/FC loads.  To date she's only shot smokeless.  So, I went through the very experiment of "how much can I compress into a .32 case and still have room for 0.36" of big lube groove bullet base in the case." (Accurate 31-110C)

 

Utilizing a locally produced 3Fg, and considerable pressure on the largest pin/rod/drill blank I could comfortable slip into the case,  I could compress  0.7cc into a nickel plated starline .32 H&R and still get the bullet seated to crimp groove without deforming the meplat or ogive.

 

I can't tell you exactly how shy of the mouth rim that was, but, it certainly wasn't up at the rim.  Much more and, even after compressing, I had to use excessive seating force to get it to the crimp groove.  There might be room for to custom trim a dipper and get a touch more, but, not much.

 

As these are intended as main match rounds, I did not consider the use of drop tubes towards achieving increased density of the grains nearest the primer/flash hole.  Right now I'd like to be able to simply load a block of 50 with a basic dipper and funnel.  There may be a point in the future that I do them on the LNL AP, with a powder thru expander die in the flare/charge station and at that point a drop tube probably wouldn't provide any complications.

 

For what its worth.  Your milage may vary.  Your powder granules and density almost certainly will.

[Longfoot]

On 3/12/2026 at 3:34 PM, Griff said:

What are you going to be doin' with .32 Mag that you want that much compression?  The compression is only there so that as your ammo is jostled, the powder doesn't settle and form an air gap.  For shootin' cowboy matches, you certainly don't need any more compression that's been advised above.  I shoot .36 caliber 1851s, and only load 13-14 grains of 3F.  Plenty of flame & smoke.  The last time I shot them at a paper target, (1986), I did a 25 yard 25 shot group.  Basically, the entire 10 ring was obliterated.  The last time I shot at CAC, on the chicken stage (24 chickens of varying sizes), I knew that I'd get called for misses if there wasn't proof on the target that they'd been hit... so, I shot at the head of each chicken... no one else does that.  I still got called for a miss, although where there'd been no marks before I shot, and all the heads had one lead smear after.  But, what do you expect when you have baseball umpires masquerading as cowboy spotters?

I only recently started shooting Frontier Cartridge, this past year.  But, I knew going into it, there will be "Black Powder Misses".  Sometimes, you know you've missed, or, may have missed.  But, on a few stages now, I've had very good to excellent sight pictures for every shot, and recorded a 'ding' in my ears as confirmation, only to be scored with a miss by all three spotters.  In each of those instances, when politely queried, "I'm not challenging anything, just curious, 'where was my miss'?"  Each of them has gone on to report a different round, i.e. Spotter 1 "first pistol, 3rd round", Spotter 2 "second pistol, last round", Spotter 3 "Um,...one of the rifle rounds".

 

Well isn't that a treat?  In each instance two people saw a hit, but, all three of 'em put a finger up.  1 "Black Powder Miss" it is 🙂

 

 

[JackSlade]

I equally have been awarded "black powder hits". I didn't hear a ding, but there was so much smoke, nobody called it. I just take it part of the game. Sometimes lady luck is on your side, other times she's not. 

[Diamond Jake]

On 3/15/2026 at 10:15 PM, Longfoot said:

...I knew going into it, there will be "Black Powder Misses"...

 

 

Last year at a Regional match the three spotters said "5", "3", and "I couldn't see a thing for sure, so Clean."

 

For some reason they decided to ignore the clean, and averaged the other two spotters and gave me 4 misses.  I had a good laugh about it, and made a few jokes for the rest of the match.  I eventually was awarded the "Spirit of the Game" award for our posse.  The Posse Marshal said "Anyone that can screw up so badly and laugh that much deserves to win something!"

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

12 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

 

Last year at a Regional match the three spotters said "5", "3", and "I couldn't see a thing for sure, so Clean."

 

For some reason they decided to ignore the clean, and averaged the other two spotters and gave me 4 misses.  I had a good laugh about it, and made a few jokes for the rest of the match.  I eventually was awarded the "Spirit of the Game" award for our posse.  The Posse Marshal said "Anyone that can screw up so badly and laugh that much deserves to win something!"

That should have been a 3 not 4.

[Diamond Jake]

1 minute ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

That should have been a 3 not 4.

 

I agree, but I didn't want to make a fuss.

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

11 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

 

I agree, but I didn't want to make a fuss.

You should have at least asked them how they got 4, or did you

Edited March 19 by Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L

[Longfoot]

On 3/19/2026 at 3:42 PM, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

You should have at least asked them how they got 4, or did you

I've seen a couple TO's, when faced with vastly varying counts, add them together and divide by 3.

[Sedalia Dave]

4 hours ago, Longfoot said:

I've seen a couple TO's, when faced with vastly varying counts, add them together and divide by 3.

 I was taught that when the spotters all disagree on the number of misses that the correct answer is the highest number they all agree on. 
 

In the OP’s example this is 3. 

[Sedalia Dave]

On 3/18/2026 at 9:25 PM, Diamond Jake said:

 

Last year at a Regional match the three spotters said "5", "3", and "I couldn't see a thing for sure, so Clean."

 

For some reason they decided to ignore the clean, and averaged the other two spotters and gave me 4 misses.  I had a good laugh about it, and made a few jokes for the rest of the match.  I eventually was awarded the "Spirit of the Game" award for our posse.  The Posse Marshal said "Anyone that can screw up so badly and laugh that much deserves to win something!"

 I shoot Frontiersman at big matches. Learned really fast that if you can’t laugh at your Train Wrecks, you are not going to have any fun.