baseball question

[Alpo]

Two away. Bases loaded. Batter smacks the hell out of it. Everybody runs.

 

The guy on third crosses. The guy on second crosses. The guy on first crosses. Batter is trying for an inside the park home run. Tagged out at the plate.

 

Did those three runs count?

 

Over the years I've heard that they would and that they wouldn't.

 

My curiosity is piqued, for some reason this morning.

 

To me it seems like they should count. They were made before the out. But - would they?

[Tyrel Cody]

Yes, they count.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Yes 

[Subdeacon Joe]

They count because it wasn't a forced out.

 

Here's an interesting thing that ChatGBT offered as trivia related to the question. 

 

The classic heartbreak: the “Fourth Out” Appeal
A famous example happened in a game involving the Brooklyn Dodgers and the St. Louis Cardinals in 1926, a play that still gets cited in umpire schools today.
The situation
Two outs.
Runners on base.
Batter hits safely.
The apparent tying run crosses home plate.
Crowd cheers. Players relax. Inning seems over.
But baseball had one more card hidden up its sleeve.
The sneaky detail
One of the runners had missed touching a base while advancing.
The defense noticed.
Instead of arguing immediately, they calmly:
Retrieved the ball.
Touched the missed base.
Told the umpire they were appealing that the runner failed to touch it.
This is legal even after the play appears finished.
What the umpires ruled
Because the runner failed to touch the base:
The appeal created a new out.
That out became the third out of the inning.
And crucially…
👉 It was treated like a force-type situation for scoring purposes.
Result: ❌ The run that had already crossed home plate did not count.
Celebration instantly turned into collective confusion.
Why this works (the rule magic)
Baseball allows what umpires call a “fourth out.”
Even after three outs seem to occur, the defense can make an appeal if it produces an out that is more advantageous to them.
Think of it like submitting a better answer before the test is graded.
The simple version
A run does not count if the third out is:
A force out, or
An appeal showing a runner missed a base or left early on a caught fly ball.
Even if the runner crossed home long before.
The umpire’s mental checklist
When a run scores near the third out, umpires silently ask:
Was the third out a force?
Did the batter reach first safely?
Is there a possible appeal play?
Only after those are settled does the run officially exist.
Why fans love this rule
It turns baseball into courtroom drama:
Evidence (did he touch the base?)
Procedure (proper appeal)
Timing (before leaving the field)
Verdict (run erased!)

[Alpo]

37 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

They count because it wasn't a forced out

So if there were two outs, and a man on third, and the batter grounded to the pitcher, who swooped it up and threw it to the first baseman. But the runner on third is extremely quick and he crossed the plate before the pitcher threw the ball to the first baseman.

 

But, the pitcher did throw the ball to the first baseman, and the ball got there before the batter did, so the batter was forced out, therefore the third base runner's run did not count? Because that third out was a forced out?

[Subdeacon Joe]

Yep.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Yes. This is called a "time play," (NOT a "timing" play as is often stated). The third out was not a force out, and therefore all preceding runs count. If the third out is a force out, they do not.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

2 hours ago, Alpo said:

So if there were two outs, and a man on third, and the batter grounded to the pitcher, who swooped it up and threw it to the first baseman. But the runner on third is extremely quick and he crossed the plate before the pitcher threw the ball to the first baseman.

 

But, the pitcher did throw the ball to the first baseman, and the ball got there before the batter did, so the batter was forced out, therefore the third base runner's run did not count? Because that third out was a forced out?

No runs count. The third out was a force out and therefore no runs can score.

[Alpo]

One more scenario, because my mind goes that way.

 

Same two away. Man on 3rd. Man on third is very fast. Ground ball drinbles down the first base line. Speedy Gonzalez over there on third base crosses home, but the pitcher runs over, snags the grounder and tags the runner. He does not throw to first where it's a force, but tags the runner.

 

That wasn't a force, so Speedy's run counted?

[Subdeacon Joe]

Still a force. Batter had no choice,  he had to advance to 1st. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Still a force. Batter had no choice,  he had to advance to 1st. 

You beat me to it. I agree, it’s still a force.