Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Here’s the story: both our short stroked Marlins were jamming. Problems had been developing for a while. Contacted a top gunsmith to see if I could send them to him. He suggested before I do that check the OAL of our cartridges. Somewhere I got the idea the right OAL was 1.41 to 1.43. He told me 1.42 is the maximum OAL! Checked ours. Lengths- 1.42 & 1.43. So, maybe there is a problem. I checked a cartridge from an older batch: 1.39! I guess we do have a problem!! So, I tightened the seating die on my Dillon & ran some of our long loads back through. Got a dozen at 1.41 & a bunch at 1.4. Let the testing begin! Result: all ran through my Marlin with no jamming, BUT I had glitches: had to “double clutch” some, if you know what I mean. I ran 30 1.4s thru wife’s: first 10 had a couple glitches, next 20 were flawless! So progress has been made, but there’s still some work to be done. My question: what is your experience? Do I need to experiment to find a “perfect” length? Should I go longer? Shorter? How precise do I need to be? My micrometer might not be sensitive enough for extreme precision! For years these guns ran flawlessly on the loads I produced. WHAT HAPPENED??? How do cartridges get LONGER all of a sudden??
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 3 Posted January 3 If it's for a Marlin with a .357 length chamber, load the 38’s long.
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 If you have short stroked Marlins you should contact whoever did the conversion. When they are short stroked they are set up for a particular OAL.
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted January 3 Author Posted January 3 25 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: If you have short stroked Marlins you should contact whoever did the conversion. When they are short stroked they are set up for a particular OAL. I did for mine. Hers-no idea! Where does that leave me?
Lawdog Dago Dom Posted January 3 Posted January 3 For years these guns ran flawlessly on the loads I produced. WHAT HAPPENED??? Just experienced this with Shortcake's Marlin. The carrier was worn and needed some metal welded on and refitted by the gunsmith. She had it for 8 years, no idea how long the previous owner had it. It was doing exactly what you described. You may just have a worn carrier but check that with a good Marlin gunsmith.
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 38 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said: Where does that leave me? It leaves you following Lawdog's advise. First have a smith familar with Marlin timing check the carrier to make sure it is within specs. And look at any other parts that were modified in an effort to see if those parts have worn. After you are sure it is mechanically OK then experiment with different OALs and different bullet shapes.
watab kid Posted January 3 Posted January 3 2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: If it's for a Marlin with a .357 length chamber, load the 38’s long. thats what i do for mine and i use a 158 grn bullet - gives a little grace to the OAL
Longfoot Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Our Marlin Cowboy Comp, which is toll stamped. 38 and has the factory reduced stroke lever from the .32, will run reliably with .38's loaded to not less than 1.450. Anything shorter results in the occasional hitch. It's also sensitive to the case being crimped into a proper crimp groove and no driving bands or shoulder ahead of the case mouth.
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 3 Posted January 3 10 hours ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said: For years these guns ran flawlessly on the loads I produced. WHAT HAPPENED??? Just experienced this with Shortcake's Marlin. The carrier was worn and needed some metal welded on and refitted by the gunsmith. She had it for 8 years, no idea how long the previous owner had it. It was doing exactly what you described. You may just have a worn carrier but check that with a good Marlin gunsmith. Check for wear on the leading edge of the 'snail drum' on the lever.
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted January 3 Posted January 3 I spent a lot of time when I first got my Marlin 94 on the cartridge jamming issue, trying different bullets at different lengths until I found the combination that works in my two Marlins. That being a 38 Special case, 125 grain round nose flat point .358 dia. cast bullet, and an COAL of 1.380". Knock on wood, I haven't had a Marlin jam in years.
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Guys remember that the OP has "short stroked" Marlins so suggesting loading the rounds long is not necessaryily the solution. He has already noted that loading the rounds shorter helped. Short stroking a Marlin is not like short stroking a toggle link. The links are between the lever and the bolt. On a Marlin the lever is directly connected to the bolt. I have not messed with one for a number of years so I have forgotten some of the details but basically the only way to short stroke a Marlin is to limit how far back the bolt can travel. This requires altering the carrier so it will rise faster, etc., etc., etc. There are only a few smiths that do these conversions and they are built around a round of a certain length.
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 3 Posted January 3 The extractor can cause feeding issues from 'claw' interference with the case rim.
TN Mongo, SASS #61450 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Widder is the "Yoda" of Marlins. He has retired from working on them, but he is always willing to talk with someone who is having issues. He might chime in on this thread or you might try sending him a PM and see if he might offer some sage advice.
KidScott Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Howdy Sackett, on my SS Marlin I use round nose flat point bullets set to 1.4 There is only one cowboy gunsmith doing the short stroke that I know of ,Cowboy Carty. See you on the range
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 1 hour ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said: Widder is the "Yoda" of Marlins. He has retired from working on them, but he is always willing to talk with someone who is having issues. He might chime in on this thread or you might try sending him a PM and see if he might offer some sage advice. Thanks Mongo. But the best advice I have, without actually looking at the Marlin, is to read some of the good advice above and basically, let the original gunsmith check out their work. This I can say from experience: I've worked on about 6 Marlin 1894's that had been short stroked. The work was VERY GOOD and specific within certain cartridge OAL. Reread Larsen's post above. On those specific Marlin's, all I had to do was reset the timing for their specific OAL recommendations. Even based on a perfectly set up Marlin (regardless of who the smith might be), Marlin's will wear. And one of the first signs of a little wear is in the timing. And even the elite setup of a Widdermajik will eventually have wear in its timing functions. Its just the nature of the Marlin 1894. TELL, you've probably got a couple of real nice rifles with some worn parts issues. Your 'short stroke smith' can be your best cure because they can look for other aspects of their work and ensure the rifles are back to their working specs. Best regards. ..........Widder
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted January 4 Posted January 4 17 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: The extractor can cause feeding issues from 'claw' interference with the case rim. I installed the Ranger Point extractor in both of my Marlins, that I absolutely love. Sadly they are not available anymore.
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 4 Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: I installed the Ranger Point extractor in both of my Marlins, that I absolutely love. Sadly they are not available anymore. I run them also. They are fantastic! Sad they didn't sell enough to continue them.
Eyesa Horg Posted January 4 Posted January 4 I run them as well. Wore one out and thankfully they had some of the claws in stock for warranty replacement. Shame they were discontinued.
Dapper Dynamite Dick Posted January 4 Posted January 4 My wife runs her Marlin M1894C with a 158 grain RNFP at 1.50".
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 5 Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Dapper Dynamite Dick said: My wife runs her Marlin M1894C with a 158 grain RNFP at 1.50". You should read the prior posts as you suggestion has nothing to do with the topic.
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted January 5 Author Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: You should read the prior posts as you suggestion has nothing to do with the topic. It does in a way. Just goes to show there’s a lot of difference in what people are shooting! Even though Cowboy Carty says 1.415 is the magic number!!
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted January 5 Posted January 5 23 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: I run them also. They are fantastic! Sad they didn't sell enough to continue them. It was you, OLG, that suggested them to me a few years ago when I was having an extraction issue with one of my Marlins. It solved the problem and I liked it so much I changed out my other Marlin. Shame they didn't catch on enough to keep selling them.
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 5 Posted January 5 11 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: It was you, OLG, that suggested them to me a few years ago when I was having an extraction issue with one of my Marlins. It solved the problem and I liked it so much I changed out my other Marlin. Shame they didn't catch on enough to keep selling them. Widder and I did prototype testing for them. Great folks to deal with.
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 5 Posted January 5 1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Widder and I did prototype testing for them. Great folks to deal with. Yes, indeed. Ranger Point Precision was good to work with and listened to our suggestions and comments. ..........Widder
Eyesa Horg Posted January 5 Posted January 5 They sure were good when I needed to replace the claw on mine!
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Sounds like you might have a Spur short stroke Marlin. He retired years ago. Good news is. He taught Cowboy Carty. Someone here can tell you how to get in touch with him. Not sure if he still lives in Illinois. Haven't seen him for a while.
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