B-P shotgun shell loading question

[Old Man Graybeard]

I have been loading and roll crimping APP in shotgun shells with no problems. The question I have is...do I need to use a lubed fiber wad loading real Black Powder in a plastic hull? I am not planning on reloading the hulls a second time. I know that in a brass hull I need to lube the fiber wad...but not sure with a plastic hull. 

TIA

 

[southparkslim]

NO

[Blackwater 53393]

Unnecessary!

[Eyesa Horg]

The only difference in my BP shells is BP instead of smokeless.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

You don't need to lube fiber wads with either BP or subs.  Unless your bore is old and pitted, it should clean easily.

[Blackwater 53393]

I use fiber wads in most of my Black Powder shotgun shells. Some lubed and some not.

 

I don’t like the plastic residue left behind when using regular plastic wads, slick barrels or not!

 

I have a couple of pards that pack shredded newspaper in their shells instead of any store bought wads!  IT WORKS WELL FOR THEM!!

 

[Eyesa Horg]

A spritz of Windex w/vinegar and a few minutes soak and the plastic comes out like a snake! Use a quarter sheet of paper towel bunched up in the chamber and pushed down the barrel. Usually only takes once per barrel. Keep the Windex off the bluing though. Some say it will remove it!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Keep the Windex off the bluing though. Some say it will remove it!

Only the version of Windex that contains vinegar.   Regular Windex is safe on bluing.  good luck, GJ

 

 

[Old Man Graybeard]

I should have stated...I do not use plastic wads...only the nitro card and fiber wad with the overshot card

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

ODD MAN OUT (sort of)

 

None of the Above.  Because.  I use Plastic Wads.  In Brass Hulls.  I don't load plastic hulls.  40Gr (by weight) 2F APP, BP Spitfire Wad for a one ounce payload.  Over shot cards.  Done.  I'm no help with Plastic Hulls but I would expect the same.  I have no problem with plastic residue in the barrels.  A good spritz of PAM, Followed with a quarter sheet of Blue paper towel wrapped onna brass brush and spritzed with  PAM.  No trouble at all.

[Eyesa Horg]

23 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 A good spritz of PAM, Followed with a quarter sheet of Blue paper towel wrapped onna brass brush and spritzed with  PAM.  No trouble at all.

I'll have to give that a shot.

[Blackwater 53393]

I used a portion of the “Windex” cleaning system to clean up after Black Powder with plastic wads.

 

I spray the barrel or barrels with a heavy dose of Windex and then fire a couple of smokeless rounds through the gun. It cleans that crap out right now!! A quick swabbing with straight Ballistol, wipe everything down, and the gun’s good ‘til next time!!

 

Edited December 16, 2025 by Blackwater 53393

[Sedalia Dave]

9 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I have a couple of pards that pack shredded newspaper in their shells instead of any store bought wads!  IT WORKS WELL FOR THEM!!

 

 

Only issue with using newspaper or TP for wadding is that occasionally they will catch fire and could possibly set the range on fire.  Never saw this happen with fiber wads.

[Doc McCoy, SASS #8381]

At various times over the years I’ve done all the above.  They all work.  My conversion to the dark side started with shot shells about 27 years ago.  By my third year of CAS I couldn’t resist the BOOM and smoke.
My favorite is the card, fiber wad and overshot card.  They clean up easier than the plastic wad.  But even the plastic wad cleans very simply.  I plug the barrels and fill with water & Simple Green; let them sit while I clean the other 3 guns, then run a paper towel wad through the bores and I’m done.

I almost always use real BP.  I used Pyrodex a bit last summer, just to get rid of what I had in storage.  I don’t like it.  But no change in loading.  The only change in cleaning was the need to clean the same day.  BP can sit for days.  

[Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104]

🇺🇸As with most things, there is always more than one way or method to achieve the desired result.  The following is the method I have adopted that has worked extremely well.  

I load typically 43-45grs. of FFG or FFFG.  On top of the powder charge at the wad seating station I place an .125" nitro card wad, a .5" lubed fiber wad and then just the cup from a regular shotgun wad.  This combination shoots very clean with no melted plastic from the shotgun wad.  A day's worth of stage shooting results in bores that look like a day of bird hunting with smokeless.  I have tried un-lubed fiber wads with not as good of results with caked on powder fowling not found using the lubed wads.  After shooting, a wet patch down the bores followed by a dry patch and then an oiled patch and done.  The plastic cup prevents holes in the pattern and helps to make the load shoot as any other.  The lubed wad softens the fouling and the nitro card wad acts as a wiping ring pushing the residue out the bore.

Pre-lubed  fiber wads are getting harder to find and are fairly expensive.  I bought a 1.5qt crock pot and use it to heat vegetable shorting.  When liquid, I throw a handful of fiber wads in, take them out using an old kitchen utensil and place them on my homemade cooling rack to drain any excess liquid.  Then into a zip lock bag and into the garage fridge until needed.

Just my experience.

Regards,

Chas B

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2025 by Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104

[PrairieDogPete]

Graybeard.....

The simple answer is no... you do not need a lubed wad.

I was nervous as heck when I first started to load BP shotshells and got advice from some of our local amigos. I found load data online and used that for a starting point and progressed from there. As for cleaning.... I'll admit, I am lazy and have a lack of time for it. I spray my irons down with moose milk (Balistol and water). Let them sit for a bit, then run a bore snake through them a couple of times, wipe the outsides with straight Balistol, then wipe with a dry rag, and am done.

There are a million opinions out there.... use what works best for you.

[Blackwater 53393]

It just so happens that I received a bundle of shot cups from a friend! They don’t have a cushion or powder seal!  I think somewhere in the very near future, I’ll try Chas. B’s combination!  Orta be interesting!!

[Longfoot]

Just started loading roll crimped, black powder, 12 ga, within the last few months.

 

Started with 55-60gn of fffg, thick nitro card, 17mm unlubricated fire wad, 1oz of #7, overshot card, roll crimp.

 

Have noticed some leading of barrels not previously experienced with plastic wad, smokeless loads.  But, nothing too hard to clean.

 

More concerning is the greatly increased pattern size of an uncontrolled shot column and cylinder bore barrels.  Its fine on large plated droppers.  But, if asked to knock small but well retained plates off a texas star or an nra plate rack, not enough pellets with sufficient energy may strike the reduced targets to get the job done.

 

Subsequently considering two changes.

 

1. Have considered pan lubing my fibre wads.

 

2. Am considering cutting the cushion off some winchester wads and trimming my fibre wads to accommodate the change in stack height.

 

It sounds like I'm not alone with these changes.  But, I do view them as fine tuning.

[Sedalia Dave]

3 hours ago, Longfoot said:

Just started loading roll crimped, black powder, 12 ga, within the last few months.

 

Started with 55-60gn of fffg, thick nitro card, 17mm unlubricated fire wad, 1oz of #7, overshot card, roll crimp.

 

Have noticed some leading of barrels not previously experienced with plastic wad, smokeless loads.  But, nothing too hard to clean.

 

More concerning is the greatly increased pattern size of an uncontrolled shot column and cylinder bore barrels.  Its fine on large plated droppers.  But, if asked to knock small but well retained plates off a texas star or an nra plate rack, not enough pellets with sufficient energy may strike the reduced targets to get the job done.

 

Subsequently considering two changes.

 

1. Have considered pan lubing my fibre wads.

 

2. Am considering cutting the cushion off some winchester wads and trimming my fibre wads to accommodate the change in stack height.

 

It sounds like I'm not alone with these changes.  But, I do view them as fine tuning.

 

Drop the powder charge to 40 grains and the pattern should tighten up.

[KatfishKid]

11 hours ago, Longfoot said:

Just started loading roll crimped, black powder, 12 ga, within the last few months.

 

Started with 55-60gn of fffg, thick nitro card, 17mm unlubricated fire wad, 1oz of #7, overshot card, roll crimp.

 

Have noticed some leading of barrels not previously experienced with plastic wad, smokeless loads.  But, nothing too hard to clean.

 

More concerning is the greatly increased pattern size of an uncontrolled shot column and cylinder bore barrels.  Its fine on large plated droppers.  But, if asked to knock small but well retained plates off a texas star or an nra plate rack, not enough pellets with sufficient energy may strike the reduced targets to get the job done.

 

Subsequently considering two changes.

 

1. Have considered pan lubing my fibre wads.

 

2. Am considering cutting the cushion off some winchester wads and trimming my fibre wads to accommodate the change in stack height.

 

It sounds like I'm not alone with these changes.  But, I do view them as fine tuning.

I've been playing around with various combinations of wads and cards and I'm shooting the same amount of FFFg as you. I found that a combo of nitro card, fiber wad, shot, overshot card. I was getting large blown out patterns. The fiber wad seems to be blowing through the shot and causing the pattern to blow out. I lowered the charge and it helped but I liked the way 55-60gn felt. then I decided to try placing a card between the fiber wad and the shot and for some reason that fixed the blown out pattern issue. I'm guessing a lot of the shot was sticking to the fiber wad. 

[Eyesa Horg]

8 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Drop the powder charge to 40 grains and the pattern should tighten up.

This ↑↑↑

[Griff]

I started shooting BP in this game in 1986... I picked up my hulls for free at the range, Winchester AAs, lots of folks used store bought shells and left 'em.  I started with around 60 grains of 2F, a Red Winchester wad and 1-¼ oz of shot.  The only things I've changed over the years is the charge weight (now about 38 grains of APP, to conserve my supply of Goex "Cartridge"), a Claybuster CB-0138-12 wad... direct replacement to the WAA12R wad and 1 oz of shot.  I've never met a KD in this game that a hit didn't knock over.  To clean the plastic "snot" from the barrels of my sxs, I simply run hot water thru them, followed by a brush with a paper towel.  That's followed by a cloth wad with a preservative oil for protection, and storage back in the safe.  Done, clean, snot free.  Easy/peasy.  Nearly 39 years of BP thru my Stoeger and it's still bright & shiny inside.... a little wear and tear on the outside tho'!

[Longfoot]

On 12/19/2025 at 5:04 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Drop the powder charge to 40 grains and the pattern should tighten up.

 

On 12/20/2025 at 1:56 AM, KatfishKid said:

I've been playing around with various combinations of wads and cards and I'm shooting the same amount of FFFg as you. I found that a combo of nitro card, fiber wad, shot, overshot card. I was getting large blown out patterns. The fiber wad seems to be blowing through the shot and causing the pattern to blow out. I lowered the charge and it helped but I liked the way 55-60gn felt. then I decided to try placing a card between the fiber wad and the shot and for some reason that fixed the blown out pattern issue. I'm guessing a lot of the shot was sticking to the fiber wad. 

 

On 12/20/2025 at 1:59 AM, Eyesa Horg said:

This ↑↑↑

 

On 12/20/2025 at 5:05 AM, Griff said:

I started shooting BP in this game in 1986...  I started with around 60 grains of 2F, a Red Winchester wad and 1-¼ oz of shot. The only things I've changed over the years is the charge weight (now about 38 grains of APP, to conserve my supply of Goex "Cartridge")... I've never met a KD in this game that a hit didn't knock over.....

Of those of you running 40 grains, are any of you running those shells in an inertia switched SKB?  If so, in your notes do you have record of how short your inertial block spring is, or, how many coils it has? I've already shortened mine a fair bit and done my best to polish the block and sear surfaces.

 

I should have posted, "I started at closer to 50 grains and only due to switching issues did I up my charge weight to closer to 60 grains."

 

With regards to my pattern and KD's, I've paper patterned it and both barrels have a very even distribution of pellets, no obvious hole or doughnut in the middle.  But, quite diffused.

 

I'll try the extra card on top of the Fibre wad. If it works, it would be the easiest solution.

 

Edited December 20, 2025 by Longfoot
corrected "search surfaces" to "sear surfaces".

[Longfoot]

On 12/17/2025 at 12:26 PM, Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104 said:

🇺🇸As with most things, there is always more than one way or method to achieve the desired result.  The following is the method I have adopted that has worked extremely well.  

I load typically 43-45grs. of FFG or FFFG.  On top of the powder charge at the wad seating station I place an .125" nitro card wad, a .5" lubed fiber wad and then just the cup from a regular shotgun wad.  This combination shoots very clean with no melted plastic from the shotgun wad.  A day's worth of stage shooting results in bores that look like a day of bird hunting with smokeless.  I have tried un-lubed fiber wads with not as good of results with caked on powder fowling not found using the lubed wads.  After shooting, a wet patch down the bores followed by a dry patch and then an oiled patch and done.  The plastic cup prevents holes in the pattern and helps to make the load shoot as any other.  The lubed wad softens the fouling and the nitro card wad acts as a wiping ring pushing the residue out the bore.

Pre-lubed  fiber wads are getting harder to find and are fairly expensive.  I bought a 1.5qt crock pot and use it to heat vegetable shorting.  When liquid, I throw a handful of fiber wads in, take them out using an old kitchen utensil and place them on my homemade cooling rack to drain any excess liquid.  Then into a zip lock bag and into the garage fridge until needed.

Just my experience.

Regards,

Chas B

 

 

 

 

Chas,

 

Your home lubed fibre wads appear to have swollen a bit larger in diameter than your nitro card or shot cup.

 

How are you getting them started into your hulls?

 

I'm currently running my unlubed fibre through MEC bushings and still get the occasional crumped hull mouth.  I'd like to try lube soaking them, but, am concerned that if they swell, I might face an even greater issue.  Or, perhaps, the 'lube' would do exactly that, and my issues will be resolved.  Hmmmm,....  I'll have to test it and see.

[Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104]

 First off, your statement regarding running the wad through a bushing has me questioning what are you doing.

The wads are pushed into the hill at the seating station.  There is typically a finger guide in the was holder that guides the wad into the hill.  No bushing involved.

I use wads and cards all 12ga and have not noticed any difference between dry fiber wad and lubed fiber wad diameter.

Will take measurements and post pics tomorrow.

Chas B 

 

 

 

 

[Longfoot]

5 hours ago, Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104 said:

 First off, your statement regarding running the wad through a bushing has me questioning what are you doing.

The wads are pushed into the hill at the seating station.  There is typically a finger guide in the was holder that guides the wad into the hill.  No bushing involved.

I use wads and cards all 12ga and have not noticed any difference between dry fiber wad and lubed fiber wad diameter.

Will take measurements and post pics tomorrow.

Chas B 

 

 

 

 

Pardon me.

 

I think my parts list named them as 'finger guide bushing'. We're talking about the same function at the same station.

 

I was running the 30 years out of date metal finger guide holder, until very recently.  The torture of the fibre wads eventually tore a few fingers from my last remaining old style finger guide.  I have the 'new style' parts sitting on the bench for installation before my next load session.

 

?For how long have you had lubed wad shells stored on a shelf and then used without powder contamination issues? 

Edited December 21, 2025 by Longfoot
"If" to "of"

[Blackwater 53393]

8 hours ago, Longfoot said:

?For how long have you had lubed wad shells stored on a shelf and then used without powder contamination issues? 

I have a large quantity of brass shells loaded with lubed fiber wads. I use a 0.125” nitro over powder card and have not had any issues with shelf life!  Some of those shell were loaded half a dozen years ago.

 

I also have a number of 10ga plastic shell that meet the same description. No issues there either.

 

[Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104]

 The following pics are of the nitro card wad, unlubed fiber wad, lubed fiber wad and shot cup.

There are nominal dimension differences if rotated but there is no marked difference in diameter between the unlubed and lubed fiber wad.

The nitro card wad is very dense which in my experience keeps any lube contamination of the powder charge.

As Blackwater stated, I have shot rounds loaded several years prior to use and in one case four twenty five round boxes loaded eight years prior with no misfires.

All have fired as if they had been loaded the day before.

Chas B 

 

[Longfoot]

4 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I have a large quantity of brass shells loaded with lubed fiber wads. I use a 0.125” nitro over powder card and have not had any issues with shelf life!  Some of those shell were loaded half a dozen years ago.

 

I also have a number of 10ga plastic shell that meet the same description. No issues there either.

 

 

2 hours ago, Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104 said:

 The following pics are of the nitro card wad, unlubed fiber wad, lubed fiber wad and shot cup.

There are nominal dimension differences if rotated but there is no marked difference in diameter between the unlubed and lubed fiber wad.

The nitro card wad is very dense which in my experience keeps any lube contamination of the powder charge.

As Blackwater stated, I have shot rounds loaded several years prior to use and in one case four twenty five round boxes loaded eight years prior with no misfires.

All have fired as if they had been loaded the day before.

Chas B 

 

 

I thank you both very much.

 

I'm such a green horn at the BPC game that anything I can glean from others is of considerable value at shortening my learning curve.

 

When I get back from holidays with my in-laws, I'm going to lube up some wads and pattern test a simple shot card on top of them vs a plastic uncushioned shot cup and hopefully arrive at a standard load for the foreseeable future.